Country Club Questions

[david.c.w]

I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

 

In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

 

Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

 

Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

 

So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

 

Bring it on....

[Warrior42111]

> @"david.c.w" said:

> I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

>

> In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

>

> Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

>

> Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

>

> So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

>

> Bring it on....

 

Interesting point, if one group gets a block why can't another group? And I am with you there. However, at least at most courses weekend morning is considered prime time, so I would think a men's group would have a better chance at doing something in Wednesday and they start on the opposite 9, so when the turn happens the ladies group is all done with their 9.

[david.c.w]

Wednesday rationale is that opposite 9 would disrupt the grounds crew.

 

To be clear, I am not saying I don't get to play. I play more then I ever thought I would (and probably more than I should).

 

A few further points of interest

* Our women's program has 140+ registered participants, and are very active

* I frequently enjoy casual couples golf with friends on Sunday afternoons

* Our Saturdays are only restricted to the member before noon. We have many women members who are able to play Saturday morning if they so choose (but not in the 9 Saturday tournaments)

 

[Warrior42111]

> @"david.c.w" said:

> Wednesday rationale is that opposite 9 would disrupt the grounds crew.

>

> To be clear, I am not saying I don't get to play. I play more then I ever thought I would (and probably more than I should).

>

> A few further points of interest

> * Our women's program has 140+ registered participants, and are very active

> * I frequently enjoy casual couples golf with friends on Sunday afternoons

> * Our Saturdays are only restricted to the member before noon. We have many women members who are able to play Saturday morning if they so choose (but not in the 9 Saturday tournaments)

>

 

I get it 100%, I just think you're best case is for a weekday slot.

 

Are there enough under 50 men that agree with they want a morning slot? Course might just be catering to the most active or organized groups

[cristphoto]

> @Warrior42111 said:

> > @cristphoto said:

> > > @LexHair said:

> > > > @HackerDave said:

> > > > The dress code issue is always thorny. People want a more relaxed code but it can go to far. The funniest thing is my kids were mortified when they decided to allow jeans in the clubhouse. They liked getting a bit dressed up. We used to allow no jeans on property, which was kind of a pain. It was much more convenient to show up in jeans and change in the locker room.

> > >

> > > We went with "neat jeans" whatever that means. Think it's fine to show up in jeans and change.

> >

> > This bugs me at my club too. On the course jeans are not allowed plus hats have to be on proper. But in the dining room jeans (not torn or extremely worn) are allowed. I've offered the compromise of no jeans at dinner time (but allowed at other times), but it goes nowhere. That's why we have lockers. I understand if someone that wears jeans to work comes directly to the club, but have proper clothes in your locker to change into.

>

> Just curious, hats on proper, I assume that means facing forward?

 

Yes.

[david.c.w]

> @Warrior42111 said:

 

>

> Are there enough under 50 men that agree with they want a morning slot? Course might just be catering to the most active or organized groups

 

I don't think anyone is trying to mess with the weekday situation or looking to take away anyone blocks. The weekday men's groups just go out at 11:30 or whenever the tee sheet opens up. Same for Women on Tuesdays. I just want to ensure I can get a tee time Saturday AM if I want. Funny thing is only about 10% of my rounds are Saturday. Most are late afternoons either during the week or Saturday/Sunday.

[burnsniper]

> @"david.c.w" said:

> I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

>

> In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

>

> Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

>

> Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

>

> So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

>

> Bring it on....

 

> @"david.c.w" said:

> I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

>

> In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

>

> Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

>

> Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

>

> So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

>

> Bring it on....

 

 

My club has a very active women’s program and senior program. We also actually have a Men’s day.

 

That being said, all of the “program/day” tee times are not first thing in the morning and thus your concern doesn’t present itself at our course.

 

[Miss_Tee]

> @burnsniper said:

> > @"david.c.w" said:

> > I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

> >

> > In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

> >

> > Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> > Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> > Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> > Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> > Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

> >

> > Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

> >

> > So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

> >

> > Bring it on....

>

> > @"david.c.w" said:

> > I will probably get some backlash for this,

> @"david.c.w" said:

> I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

>

> In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

>

> Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

>

> Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

>

> So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

>

> Bring it on....

 

That does suck for you. The only mornings you wouldn’t be able to tee off at my club are Mondays from 8:00-11:00, middle of June to middle of August (jr golf) and Wednesdays from 9:00 to 10:30 May thru August (small women’s league).

 

Why is your course closed on Mondays? That seems odd.

[HackerDave]

Every private club near me is closed on Mondays. Usually they host outings.

[LexHair]

> @"david.c.w" said:

> I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

>

> In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

>

> Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

>

> Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

>

> So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

>

> Bring it on....

 

We have the 9/18 hole women on Wednesday morning but it's not a large group. Juniors in the morning? Wow.

[HackerDave]

Our junior program is pretty big. The entire course is closed until 11 on Tuesdays and some of the older kids go out Friday morning. Tuesday night is mens league (all 27 holes), Wed night is ladies league 9-18 holes. Thursday is ladies 18 hole in the morning. Our only other restriction is Saturday mornings before 10 (no guests). It used to be called mens league but now it is open to all adults.

 

There are groups that go out at various times during the week but with 27 holes it is never a problem.

[golfortennis]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > > I believe it! That's why most men are afraid to speak up. I think it's a small, vocal minority who are the ones that keep the sexism alive and well at most clubs. Not much is going to change until more broad-minded men (no pun intended) are willing to voice their opinions.

>

>

> >

> > I don't think that preferring to be with men at a club is sexism at all. I joined a club to play golf with the guys. I don't care if there are women members or not.

>

>

>

> I get that. That’s what men’s league is for.

> At the club I belong to, we have two couples leagues on Tuesdays, two women’s leagues on Wednesdays and three men’s leagues on Thursdays.

> There are also monthly scrambles for men and two scrambles for women - if we get enough to sign up - which didn’t happen this year (for the women's scrambles).

> My issue is with what goes on every Saturday and Sunday morning, all season long. There is a points game, which is for men only. I really want to play in it but am not allowed to because I’m a woman. I’ve talked with a lot of the guys that play and I believe 75% of them would be fine with letting women play. They realize that there are only two or three of us that would even be interested in playing. It is a small minority of guys that are insisting on maintaining the status quo.

> The most common response I get from the men is this: We wouldn’t mind if you played, but we don’t want to play with a woman that is going to be offended by our language or behavior, or play with some of the women they don’t care for.

> My response to this has been:

> They underestimate the language some women use on the course.

> If they would have to play with a woman that would be offended, couldn’t they modify their behavior for one round of golf?

> There are men they complain about having to play with, but when they get stuck with those guys they survive.

> When teams are being randomly picked, let those men that object to playing with a woman state that ahead of time and just make sure they aren’t on the same team.

>

> There are also a few guys that don’t want to play with any women.

> This attitude was accepted 40 years ago, but I think it’s time for a change, especially when it’s a small minority that is making the decision.

>

> The thing I like most about golf is that it doesn't matter if you are young, old, male, female, great or horrible, you can go out and play a round of golf with anyone (at least in my opinion).

>

 

I would ask you a few questions. 1)Are you paying full dues or do you have a reduced dues(either as secondary to a spouse or otherwise)? 2)Is the club actually blocking off weekend morning times for this points game?

 

 

[byrne092]

This decision has ended up being much tougher than I originally thought it would be. You start second guessing what the best choice is. I have at least have cut some options out, but added others at the same time.

1- I thought I was settled on this option, but after playing a couple rounds, it has left me second guessing. I have enjoyed the clubhouse amenities, members are very welcoming, and the list of yearly club events is lengthy. The course is well taken care of, unfortunately, Im not sure I love the layout. 25 minutes from home/office

2- I originally wrote the course off because of the amount of members. Recently a large assessment caused a mass exodus, which honestly was what it needed. Club has 36 holes. One very nice course and another that is nice, but just ok. I am a little worried about an influx of new members causing a similar situation as before. 25 min from home/office

3- Great clubhouse and amenities. I haven’t got a good read on the membership but they seem nice enough and accommodating. Course is great, a place to improve and grow. 35 min from home/office.

4- Great clubhouse. Members seem nice and accommodating. 36 holes; Both are some of the best in the area. 45 minutes from home/office. If I could move, it would be a no brainer.

 

All of the options are financially sound and have non stuffy-welcoming atmospheres.

Being an analytical, indecisive person, has made this a real chore.

[BMC]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

> > @burnsniper said:

> > > @"david.c.w" said:

> > > I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

> > >

> > > In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

> > >

> > > Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> > > Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> > > Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> > > Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> > > Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

> > >

> > > Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

> > >

> > > So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

> > >

> > > Bring it on....

> >

> > > @"david.c.w" said:

> > > I will probably get some backlash for this,

> > @"david.c.w" said:

> > I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

> >

> > In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

> >

> > Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> > Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> > Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> > Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> > Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

> >

> > Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

> >

> > So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

> >

> > Bring it on....

>

> That does suck for you. The only mornings you wouldn’t be able to tee off at my club are Mondays from 8:00-11:00, middle of June to middle of August (jr golf) and Wednesdays from 9:00 to 10:30 May thru August (small women’s league).

>

> Why is your course closed on Mondays? That seems odd.

Most private country clubs are closed on Mondays.

 

[Miss_Tee]

> @BMC said:

> > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > > @burnsniper said:

> > > > @"david.c.w" said:

> > > > I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

> > > >

> > > > In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

> > > >

> > > > Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> > > > Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> > > > Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> > > > Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> > > > Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

> > > >

> > > > Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

> > > >

> > > > So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

> > > >

> > > > Bring it on....

> > >

> > > > @"david.c.w" said:

> > > > I will probably get some backlash for this,

> > > @"david.c.w" said:

> > > I will probably get some backlash for this, but when is "men's day"? Yes I know, every day is men's day and has been for a very long time. I acknowledge that as a well off white male, my life journey has been easier than many. However, at least at my club, as a non-senior male, I have the least amount of access to tee times out of any classification. I am a husband to a successful working woman and a father to a motivated daughter, and I never want to marginalize or restrict anything from them, but we need parity for all classifications.

> > >

> > > In today's day and age of flexible working hours and environment there are times that I would like play on a weekday morning. I work mostly with people on the west coast so I could for sure try and head out at 8:00 by myself or twosome and be done by 11 or 11:30 and still get in a full day of work.

> > >

> > > Can I play Monday morning? No, course closed

> > > Can I play Tuesday morning? No, seniors tee times or shotgun

> > > Can I play Wednesday morning? No, ladies 9 holers tee time or shotgun

> > > Can I play Thursday morning? No, ladies 18 holers tee time or shotgun

> > > Can I play Friday morning in the summer? No, juniors tee times

> > >

> > > Sunday anyone can play at any time. No blocks or any events.

> > >

> > > So the only time I can play in the morning is either Saturday or Sunday. My point is that senior men and all women have more access to the course than I do. It is not that I don't want to play with women but in the spirit of parity, can at least the under 50 men get Saturday morning before noon?

> > >

> > > Bring it on....

> >

> > That does suck for you. The only mornings you wouldn’t be able to tee off at my club are Mondays from 8:00-11:00, middle of June to middle of August (jr golf) and Wednesdays from 9:00 to 10:30 May thru August (small women’s league).

> >

> > Why is your course closed on Mondays? That seems odd.

> Most private country clubs are closed on Mondays.

>

 

Mine isn’t. It’s open 7 days a week. Pro shop is closed on Mondays but course and bar are open.

[Miss_Tee]

>

> I would ask you a few questions. 1)Are you paying full dues or do you have a reduced dues(either as secondary to a spouse or otherwise)? 2)Is the club actually blocking off weekend morning times for this points game?

>

>

 

1. Paying for a couples membership with no restrictions.

2. No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

[Dancin]

> @byrne092 said:

> This decision has ended up being much tougher than I originally thought it would be. You start second guessing what the best choice is. I have at least have cut some options out, but added others at the same time.

> 1- I thought I was settled on this option, but after playing a couple rounds, it has left me second guessing. I have enjoyed the clubhouse amenities, members are very welcoming, and the list of yearly club events is lengthy. The course is well taken care of, unfortunately, Im not sure I love the layout. 25 minutes from home/office

> 2- I originally wrote the course off because of the amount of members. Recently a large assessment caused a mass exodus, which honestly was what it needed. Club has 36 holes. One very nice course and another that is nice, but just ok. I am a little worried about an influx of new members causing a similar situation as before. 25 min from home/office

> 3- Great clubhouse and amenities. I haven’t got a good read on the membership but they seem nice enough and accommodating. Course is great, a place to improve and grow. 35 min from home/office.

> 4- Great clubhouse. Members seem nice and accommodating. 36 holes; Both are some of the best in the area. 45 minutes from home/office. If I could move, it would be a no brainer.

>

> All of the options are financially sound and have non stuffy-welcoming atmospheres.

> Being an analytical, indecisive person, has made this a real chore.

 

I'd be a strong no if I had doubts on the layout after only a few rounds when you have so many other options. You're going to be playing whatever course you pick all the time so it better be something you like otherwise you'll be kicking yourself for not joining one of the others.

[Roadking2003]

> @byrne092 said:

> This decision has ended up being much tougher than I originally thought it would be. You start second guessing what the best choice is. I have at least have cut some options out, but added others at the same time.

> 1- I thought I was settled on this option, but after playing a couple rounds, it has left me second guessing. I have enjoyed the clubhouse amenities, members are very welcoming, and the list of yearly club events is lengthy. The course is well taken care of, unfortunately, Im not sure I love the layout. 25 minutes from home/office

> 2- I originally wrote the course off because of the amount of members. Recently a large assessment caused a mass exodus, which honestly was what it needed. Club has 36 holes. One very nice course and another that is nice, but just ok. I am a little worried about an influx of new members causing a similar situation as before. 25 min from home/office

> 3- Great clubhouse and amenities. I haven’t got a good read on the membership but they seem nice enough and accommodating. Course is great, a place to improve and grow. 35 min from home/office.

> 4- Great clubhouse. Members seem nice and accommodating. 36 holes; Both are some of the best in the area. 45 minutes from home/office. If I could move, it would be a no brainer.

>

> All of the options are financially sound and have non stuffy-welcoming atmospheres.

> Being an analytical, indecisive person, has made this a real chore.

 

Closer is better.

[david.c.w]

> @byrne092 said:

> This decision has ended up being much tougher than I originally thought it would be. You start second guessing what the best choice is. I have at least have cut some options out, but added others at the same time.

> 1- I thought I was settled on this option, but after playing a couple rounds, it has left me second guessing. I have enjoyed the clubhouse amenities, members are very welcoming, and the list of yearly club events is lengthy. The course is well taken care of, unfortunately, Im not sure I love the layout. 25 minutes from home/office

> 2- I originally wrote the course off because of the amount of members. Recently a large assessment caused a mass exodus, which honestly was what it needed. Club has 36 holes. One very nice course and another that is nice, but just ok. I am a little worried about an influx of new members causing a similar situation as before. 25 min from home/office

> 3- Great clubhouse and amenities. I haven’t got a good read on the membership but they seem nice enough and accommodating. Course is great, a place to improve and grow. 35 min from home/office.

> 4- Great clubhouse. Members seem nice and accommodating. 36 holes; Both are some of the best in the area. 45 minutes from home/office. If I could move, it would be a no brainer.

>

> All of the options are financially sound and have non stuffy-welcoming atmospheres.

> Being an analytical, indecisive person, has made this a real chore.

 

Seems like you are leaning toward #4 but it is the farthest. May come down to how much you plan on using the amenities during the week. If expecting to play 9 after work, experience 1/2 price wine night or use the gym closer is better so consider #2. If you plan on playing only on the weekends and have some time flexibility go with #4. Don't forget that the golf course, while the biggest asset and main driver, is only a part of the overall experience. And as I have told people before, there is probably not a wrong answer, but maybe 4 right answers.

[cristphoto]

Our pro shop, range, course and dining are closed on Mondays. You can go out and play the course but you will only be able to walk as the staff has the day off. Locker room and exercise room are open 7 days a week as is the pool in season.

[byrne092]

> @"david.c.w" said:

> Seems like you are leaning toward #4 but it is the farthest. May come down to how much you plan on using the amenities during the week. If expecting to play 9 after work, experience 1/2 price wine night or use the gym closer is better so consider #2. If you plan on playing only on the weekends and have some time flexibility go with #4. Don't forget that the golf course, while the biggest asset and main driver, is only a part of the overall experience. And as I have told people before, there is probably not a wrong answer, but maybe 4 right answers.

 

Yeah. I plan on making a pros/cons list and having a honest discussion with my wife. There are many ways I am looking at it.

1. I am not getting any closer than 25 minutes, so is 45 that much worse?

2. The only direction I am moving it closer to 1, 3, or 4; but I don't have any plans to move anytime soon.

3. The 100% biggest factor for me is the golf course, golfing members and events. My real desire to join is that I currently don't have any (1-2, but they have very limited schedules) friends that golf (all my old golfing buddies moved out of state). My wife knows this and wants me to enjoy the time I spend playing golf - part of the reason she doesn't have much push back on joining a club. I still need to find out what she truly wants.

4. We are young and live in the city because we like all the restaurants, bars, etc that the city scene provides. We have a pretty active group of friends. I want the camaraderie of the club, but I don't see myself being a club hound.

 

Overall I still want my better half to be OK with the commute, because I want her to enjoy it as well.

 

Sorry, just kind of thinking out loud. Thanks for all the responses again!

[Roody]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

> No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

 

I'm in one of the weekend morning groups. I think overall we have about 20-25 guys, and we actually do have one woman who joins us quite often. I think the reason the guys don't mind playing with her is because she's a solid stick (about a 9-10 handicap). The morning group moves fast, and she can keep up. And she's willing to pony up the $$ for the game.

 

I can't speak for my entire group, but my thought is as long as you can keep pace of play and aren't a jerk, I couldn't care less if you're a man or a woman. But I get what you're saying, it's not like that everywhere.

 

Conversely, I have seen men shunned from various morning groups because of poor etiquette, slow pace, or because they throw too many temper tantrums when they play badly. So really it just comes down to can you play golf decently, and move along efficiently? Not so much about gender. At least it shouldn't be.

[Miss_Tee]

> @Roody said:

> > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

>

> I'm in one of the weekend morning groups. I think overall we have about 20-25 guys, and we actually do have one woman who joins us quite often. I think the reason the guys don't mind playing with her is because she's a solid stick (about a 9-10 handicap). The morning group moves fast, and she can keep up. And she's willing to pony up the $$ for the game.

>

> I can't speak for my entire group, but my thought is as long as you can keep pace of play and aren't a jerk, I couldn't care less if you're a man or a woman. But I get what you're saying, it's not like that everywhere.

>

> Conversely, I have seen men shunned from various morning groups because of poor etiquette, slow pace, or because they throw too many temper tantrums when they play badly. So really it just comes down to can you play golf decently, and move along efficiently? Not so much about gender. At least it shouldn't be.

 

 

That's the frustrating part for me. I have a 13 handicap and I move right along. A lot of the guys have told me they'd rather play with me than with some of the men that are regulars.

There are guys with handicaps as high as 30; guys who are incredibly slow; guys who are incredibly annoying . . . and they all get to play because they are men. It's really hard for me to accept this.

 

 

**Apologies to byrne092** for going off on a tangent from his question, but there are a lot of things for people to consider when choosing a country club. Re:

 

_Overall I still want my better half to be OK with the commute, because I want her to enjoy it as well.

_

I'd suggest your wife also visit the prospective clubs a few times and meet some of the women. Some women's leagues are pretty cliquey. Hopefully there would be a group she would fit in with.

 

 

 

[byrne092]

No worries @ladygolfer2 She is definitely involved in the visits. She isn’t a golfer, but has expressed trying out tennis and maybe some of the less serious ladies/couples events. Trying to figure out the female side of the culture is equally important though, I agree.

[MaxBuck]

> @BMC said:

> Most private country clubs are closed on Mondays.

>

 

I think this was more true in the past than it is now.

[HackerDave]

We selected our club based on how family friendly it is. I really wanted the entire family to benefit from belonging to a club and it worked out better than I ever imagined. Years of junior golf, family Sunday rounds and both my wife and I playing in our respective leagues paid off big time. Kids both ended up playing HS golf (along with several other sports) and to this day, their best friends are the kids they grew up playing golf and tennis with at the club. We almost always played golf on family vacations and we still take annual golf trips with the kids (now adults). I can tell you this with certainty. If your wife buys in, you will play a LOT more golf. Find a place where she is comfortable and life will be easier.

 

We had several clubs to choose from. One was probably more prestigious but they certainly made no efforts to make it female friendly and their junior program was an afterthought. The club we selected has several womens leagues and a HUGE junior golf program. For us, it was an easy decision. Our club is only 10 minutes away and I can't tell you the number of times I have headed out after dinner to practice, hang out etc. I'm one of those guys who can spend hours on the range as I find it very relaxing. Lets just say that when I go to the range, nobody else in the family asks to join me!

[david.c.w]

@HackerDave highlights the best parts of a country club. You end up using it for so much more than you originally thought. You are clearly joining for golf, but you may find that the Tuesday night platform tennis outing is your favorite thing. Whatever you pick, make sure you look at all the amenities for everyone in your family.

[golfortennis]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

> >

> > I would ask you a few questions. 1)Are you paying full dues or do you have a reduced dues(either as secondary to a spouse or otherwise)? 2)Is the club actually blocking off weekend morning times for this points game?

> >

> >

>

> 1. Paying for a couples membership with no restrictions.

> 2. No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

 

Sorry, just seeing this now. I think the editing took out the notification.

 

My only beef is with someone who pays less than full dues but expects to be able to play at prime time, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. So this is an informal game among these guys. You are looking to play in the game, not just play in the morning, because you are able to do that? I'm not sure what to say. If the club isn't "sanctioning" this points game, and you have the ability to play in the morning... a club does have a number of people, and eventually there will be a few people who don't like each other. Are there guys who don't get to play in this game? There are games that go on at my club every weekend that not everyone gets into, regardless of which bathroom people use.

 

Your dues get you access to the course, and entry into club events for which you are eligible. They don't get you automatic entry into the "cool kids" club. Your beef would be much stronger if the pro shop was scheduling this, IMHO. You would have a real case for a gripe if they are blocking off times to which you have the same access. But you're allowed in the cafeteria, the jocks/cheerleaders/nerds/whichevergroupyouwant just don't want to let you sit at their table. There is still freedom of association. I guess I would ask why you want to play with these guys, and if they decide to let you in, great, but "guys of their own volition organize a game amongst themselves and don't let women in" is not a valid complaint, IMHO.

[Miss_Tee]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > >

> > > I would ask you a few questions. 1)Are you paying full dues or do you have a reduced dues(either as secondary to a spouse or otherwise)? 2)Is the club actually blocking off weekend morning times for this points game?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 1. Paying for a couples membership with no restrictions.

> > 2. No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

>

> Sorry, just seeing this now. I think the editing took out the notification.

>

> My only beef is with someone who pays less than full dues but expects to be able to play at prime time, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. So this is an informal game among these guys. You are looking to play in the game, not just play in the morning, because you are able to do that? I'm not sure what to say. If the club isn't "sanctioning" this points game, and you have the ability to play in the morning... a club does have a number of people, and eventually there will be a few people who don't like each other. Are there guys who don't get to play in this game? There are games that go on at my club every weekend that not everyone gets into, regardless of which bathroom people use.

>

> Your dues get you access to the course, and entry into club events for which you are eligible. They don't get you automatic entry into the "cool kids" club. Your beef would be much stronger if the pro shop was scheduling this, IMHO. You would have a real case for a gripe if they are blocking off times to which you have the same access. But you're allowed in the cafeteria, the jocks/cheerleaders/nerds/whichevergroupyouwant just don't want to let you sit at their table. There is still freedom of association. I guess I would ask why you want to play with these guys, and if they decide to let you in, great, but "guys of their own volition organize a game amongst themselves and don't let women in" is not a valid complaint, IMHO.

 

I actually don't buy it when they say it's not a club-sponsored activity. It gets mentioned in the club newsletter and it figures prominently in the men's page of the club website.

 

There are no guys who don't get to play. It's not an "invitation" type of thing. Any male member can play, and he can bring guests, as long as they are men. All they have to do is show up that morning and they are in the game.

 

I appreciate your comments and I get what you are saying. If I thought that most, or even 1/3 of the guys didn't want to let me play I would drop it. I honestly don't think that is the case. But as oftentimes happens, because it doesn't affect them directly, they don't care enough about it to speak up for me. I honestly believe there are just a handful of men that want to continue to exclude women.

 

You asked why I want to play. It's not that I have a great desire to play with men; I just like competition. It's a lot more fun and meaningful to be playing in a foursome, where your score means something, than out there playing by yourself, waiting to take every shot because you are sandwiched between foursomes. Our course is only a nine-hole course, and there are sometimes over 40 men playing the point game, so no matter what time I go on a weekend morning, I am going to be in between their foursomes.

 

The bottom line is, I just don't see what difference it makes if a golfer is a man or a woman. All I'm asking to do is golf with them. Would it be ok if they started excluding bald men, or divorced men, or men over 250 pounds?

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but this is my opinion.

 

[raynorfan1]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

> I actually don't buy it when they say it's not a club-sponsored activity. It gets mentioned in the club newsletter and it figures prominently in the men's page of the club website.

>

> There are no guys who don't get to play. It's not an "invitation" type of thing. Any male member can play, and he can bring guests, as long as they are men. All they have to do is show up that morning and they are in the game.

>

> I appreciate your comments and I get what you are saying. If I thought that most, or even 1/3 of the guys didn't want to let me play I would drop it. I honestly don't think that is the case. But as oftentimes happens, because it doesn't affect them directly, they don't care enough about it to speak up for me. I honestly believe there are just a handful of men that want to continue to exclude women.

>

> You asked why I want to play. It's not that I have a great desire to play with men; I just like competition. It's a lot more fun and meaningful to be playing in a foursome, where your score means something, than out there playing by yourself, waiting to take every shot because you are sandwiched between foursomes. Our course is only a nine-hole course, and there are sometimes over 40 men playing the point game, so no matter what time I go on a weekend morning, I am going to be in between their foursomes.

>

> The bottom line is, I just don't see what difference it makes if a golfer is a man or a woman. All I'm asking to do is golf with them. Would it be ok if they started excluding bald men, or divorced men, or men over 250 pounds?

>

> I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but this is my opinion.

 

Couple of questions.

 

Does the club sponsor any women's only events or tournaments? Should men who "just like competition" be invited to play in them?

 

If you were invited to play in the Saturday game, would you expect to play the same tees as the other competitors (with appropriate handicap adjustment, under USGA guidelines, if it's a net event)?