I hate the "Leaving the flag in" rule

[DaveLeeNC]

Despite that large sample size (stated at 5000), this study as presented is a lot less 'scientific' than 'Expert Golf' believes.

 

 

dave (a pin in guy just because it is more convenient)

[over_roast]

I usually play solo rounds and almost always leave the flag in. Unless I'm on putt number 5 and I'm trying anything to get off that hole!

 

I'm not sure what the big deal is? If you want to pull it, fine, if not, that's fine too.

[Newby]

I noticed Tyrrell Hatton made $1.5m more in prize money than the fivesome that finished second when he left the flagstick in for his winning putt.

[Superbrit]

> @Newby said:

> I noticed Tyrrell Hatton made $1.5m more in prize money than the fivesome that finished second when he left the flagstick in for his winning putt.

 

 

Schwab did the same, didnt help him on his final putt

[ThinkingPlus]

> @over_roast said:

> I usually play solo rounds and almost always leave the flag in. Unless I'm on putt number 5 and I'm trying anything to get off that hole!

>

> I'm not sure what the big deal is? If you want to pull it, fine, if not, that's fine too.

 

And the rule change didn't matter because you likely left the flag in all the time anyway for your solo rounds.

[bortass]

 

Pelz supposedly did a study on the flag stick being in a quite a while ago. It's mentioned in his Short Game Bible and it was with regard to chipping. What he wrote is that there is a slight advantage to leaving the flag in unless it is at an angle in the cup. So his advice was to never remove the flag, when chipping from off the green, unless the flag was angled. The flag being in does more to help versus hurt.

 

I would expect that putting is no different. It should provide a slight advantage. Some balls will drop and others that hit the flag will be closer. There is no real way to prove which is better though because I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. It will vary based on circumstances and the player themselves. If you lack speed control, having it in will help most likely. If you're speed is almost always good then maybe it doesn't matter as much.

 

For me, I like the option. I can leave it in if I'm lagging a putt and take it out if I'm closer. Either way is fine by the RoG.

 

@ThinkingPlus - the rule change might matter to a single. Just because I can't post a score doesn't mean the RoG go out the window. I played a lot of solo rounds and always had a scoring goal that I was trying to break. I played by the RoG because when I finally broke that target score I wanted to know that it was legitimate, even if I can no longer post it. So now if I'm solo I can leave it in or out as I please and still be within the RoG, which does matter to me.

 

At the end of the day, it's personal preference now, not mandated by the rules that you MUST do XYZ. People can pull it or not. Think that one way is better than the other, etc. But as far as the current game of golf goes, it's irrelevant as to which you do.

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @bortass said:

>

> Pelz supposedly did a study on the flag stick being in a quite a while ago. It's mentioned in his Short Game Bible and it was with regard to chipping. What he wrote is that there is a slight advantage to leaving the flag in unless it is at an angle in the cup. So his advice was to never remove the flag, when chipping from off the green, unless the flag was angled. The flag being in does more to help versus hurt.

>

> I would expect that putting is no different. It should provide a slight advantage. Some balls will drop and others that hit the flag will be closer. There is no real way to prove which is better though because I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. It will vary based on circumstances and the player themselves. If you lack speed control, having it in will help most likely. If you're speed is almost always good then maybe it doesn't matter as much.

>

> For me, I like the option. I can leave it in if I'm lagging a putt and take it out if I'm closer. Either way is fine by the RoG.

>

> @ThinkingPlus - the rule change might matter to a single. Just because I can't post a score doesn't mean the RoG go out the window. I played a lot of solo rounds and always had a scoring goal that I was trying to break. I played by the RoG because when I finally broke that target score I wanted to know that it was legitimate, even if I can no longer post it. So now if I'm solo I can leave it in or out as I please and still be within the RoG, which does matter to me.

>

> At the end of the day, it's personal preference now, not mandated by the rules that you MUST do XYZ. People can pull it or not. Think that one way is better than the other, etc. But as far as the current game of golf goes, it's irrelevant as to which you do.

>

>

 

That's reasonable and I can respect that. My view is that solo rounds are now, by definition, practice so I don't worry so much about strict adherence to the RoG. I leave the pin in when playing solo unless for some reason I really care about making a putt in which case I will pull it out.

 

Also you should look at **all** the pin in vs pin out studies. The Pelz work targetted chipping specifically and is not as applicable to putting as some other studies.

[davep043]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

>

> Also you should look at **all** the pin in vs pin out studies. The Pelz work targetted chipping specifically and is not as applicable to putting as some other studies.

 

I agree completely, look at all the studies. They do seem to contradict one another, which might just mean that there's not a single correct answer. But Pelz work was done with rolling golf balls, so its applicable to putting, he just used "past the hole" speeds that seem pretty excessive for putting, but were appropriate considering the lessened speed control when chipping.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @davep043 said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> >

> > Also you should look at **all** the pin in vs pin out studies. The Pelz work targetted chipping specifically and is not as applicable to putting as some other studies.

>

> I agree completely, look at all the studies. They do seem to contradict one another, which might just mean that there's not a single correct answer. But Pelz work was done with rolling golf balls, so its applicable to putting, he just used "past the hole" speeds that seem pretty excessive for putting, but were appropriate considering the lessened speed control when chipping.

 

My applicability comment targetted his distance past the hole rather than his method. If someone is frequently cranking putts 9' or even 5' past a hole, then that person needs more help than even the flagstick can provide.

[Imp]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > >

> > > Also you should look at **all** the pin in vs pin out studies. The Pelz work targetted chipping specifically and is not as applicable to putting as some other studies.

> >

> > I agree completely, look at all the studies. They do seem to contradict one another, which might just mean that there's not a single correct answer. But Pelz work was done with rolling golf balls, so its applicable to putting, he just used "past the hole" speeds that seem pretty excessive for putting, but were appropriate considering the lessened speed control when chipping.

>

> My applicability comment targetted his distance past the hole rather than his method. If someone is frequently cranking putts 9' or even 5' past a hole, then that person needs more help than even the flagstick can provide.

 

I've been stating this since the studies came out. If the pace is such that a slight miss will leave it 4+ feet beyond the hole, the pin in/out is irrelevant. You need better speed control. Any putts pace that would have left it 2 feet or less, went in. None deflected. That's the part people fail to come to terms with.

 

Now, I'm not saying that they would *all* go in, becuase I don't live in a perfect world, there's always the outliers. Even this year, I've seen my fair share of tilted flags... if it's not centered, it's gonna get pulled.

 

--kC