Fitted Clubs vs Purchased Clubs - Forum View

[mikepatterson0172]

Hi All,

 

I recently had a fitting at a really respected independent fitter in the UK. The fitting was great and there were definitely improvements through the bag. I made the (recognised in hindsight) mistake of telling the fitter not to worry about budget at first as I was intending to upgrade the bag slowly. Anyway, long story short, the performance increase was so big I knew a lot of the changes were needed sooner. I also hadn't appreciated how much you can spend on shafts if you put your mind to it!

 

I should also say I paid for the fitters time and would go back for kit in the future, so I don't feel I've taken advantage at all.

 

The only 'used' item I purchased were the fairway shafts but they're in pretty good condition.

 

In total, the fitters price for the below was £3,350. I've put my version together for £1,675 hopefully without too much compromise and with the option to swap int he recommended items later if I want to.

 

I'd be really interested to get the forums views on what I purchased vs what I was fit for. In the case of the iron shafts these were the second best performers on the day.

 

Purchased Fitter

Driver Head G400 LST G410 LST

Driver Shaft Tour AD GP 6S Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S

Fairway Heads G400 3 Wood & 5 Wood G410 3LST & 5 wood

Fairway Shafts Accra FX 1.0 200F Accra FX 2.0 200F

Iron Heads 2017 P790 2019 P790

Wedge Heads SM7 SM7

Iron / Wedge Shafts Project X LZ 6.0 Oban CT125

 

 

[Ripken08]

Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. Look at Brooke Henderson who uses a 48" driver. All of her clubs are over length and she chokes down. She learned to play with longer men's clubs and adapted. "Basic" fitting parameters such and length and lie I get. Especially for those tall or short players. That can be done statically almost. The rest is over rated....launch monitors, spin numbers, hitting off mats etc. A lot of people on here are OBSESSED with launch monitor numbers. Paralysis by analysis! I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same! Length difference, flex difference etc...... It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use anything. Us mortal players can get by with static fittings for length and lie.

[extrastiff]

not at all what the op was asking for, he obviously thinks getting fitted is useful and he saw improvements, so. . . .

 

more to the point, you did fine with your purchases. that will work and it is all close to the fitter recommendations as far as how they fit your swing speed, sequence, etc.

[MooJersey]

I will second that fitting is way overrated. Try stuff off the rack. Mix and match shafts. You can figure out what you like on your own and for a lot less coin.

[monkeyboy]

I support getting fitted, but it is not a cure all, all the time.

 

Have seen people get great results and have seen people get totally taken advantage of $$-wise with no improvement in performance.

 

I think you as a golfer have to pre-identify what you want to fix/change (specifically) before going in for a fitting.

Once you have a profile of what may fit you, I can see buying some trial and error stuff off the rack. But doing it blindly is really hit or miss.

 

 

[Popeye64]

I see nothing wrong with paying someone for thier time to fit you. Then going out on your own and purchasing clubs to the specs that you were fit for. He earned his money for the time and knowledge he used for your fitting.

So I see no problem with you saving money on the same setup purchased elsewhere.

[cjpsse]

While I see value in fitting (used to do it for a living), I think the build is more important. If your X flex shaft is actually only playing to R flex due to being a crappy shaft or incorrect trimming and install, its going to take a lot of tweaking throughout the bag to get it right. Or, you end up going through 8 shafts to find the one that works and by that time you've spent enough to just get them properly built. That said, if your guy was just a fitter, and doesnt have a build shop, then by all means, you did a great job... some great head/shaft combos.

[bvanlieu]

Nothing wrong with the fitting suggestions and the process. High end shafts cause prices to soar. When on a budget, looking a year or two before for iron heads makes it easy to find slightly used great value.

 

Shaft pulls are out there as well if you are dialed into one shaft (typically a few shafts will work well across brands once you find the weight/flex you like).

 

I got my irons new 2 years ago, with a simple fitting and one of the OEM shaft options was pretty good for me. Had I waited 6mo, I could have saved 50% but that's the golf club market and I treated myself.

 

My other clubs I have assembled with CPO from Callaway, shaft pulls, NOS from the Bay etc...like you on a budget and its been a fun ride.

 

Quick story, did a recent driver fitting ($50 or so) at a GG because I wanted to try some shafts, but I have been shopping there for years including the irons, they just gave me shafts and set me up in the bay: I can read a launch monitor and know my feels. I was happy to pay for their time, and if the price was OK I would buy the shaft there, however the pro suggested I check out the "Internet" for the Tour AD shaft as they don't get good pricing on it due to lack of volume.

 

I already had several classified ad's I was watching :)

 

- b

[Davidv]

If it worked for you fine. However I believe this whole club fitting craze is a nice sophisticated money grab. You can go to any range hit a variety of clubs and walk away with what works best for you.

[Adam C]

Shafts are always what jumps the prices up on this stuff. THERE IS VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHAFTS after weight and balance. Those two things are far and away most important. This idea that stock shafts are not going to be as consistent is just dumb. OEMs are using high end True Temper, Nippon, KBS, PX shafts as stock options. They are also the shafts used by most professionals. Yet somehow we keep seeing people "needing" these exotic shaft options not offered by the OEMs. Hmmmm. Shady.

 

Also I am guessing there was shaft PUREing included in that price at some ridiculous up charge. Don't buy the hype.

 

Fitting is good and important with an understanding that it's a starting point. You still need to put in the time with new equipment to learn to hit it. But don't let any fitter tell you that some stupid expensive shafts are going to make a difference.

 

Get the weight right, and then go practice with them.

[aquapig]

> @Ripken08 said:

> Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. Look at Brooke Henderson who uses a 48" driver. All of her clubs are over length and she chokes down. She learned to play with longer men's clubs and adapted. "Basic" fitting parameters such and length and lie I get. Especially for those tall or short players. That can be done statically almost. The rest is over rated....launch monitors, spin numbers, hitting off mats etc. A lot of people on here are OBSESSED with launch monitor numbers. Paralysis by analysis! I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same! Length difference, flex difference etc...... It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use anything. Us mortal players can get by with static fittings for length and lie.

 

Truth

[jholz]

I always find it interesting in these threads how no one is ever fit into a Aldila NV or a TT DG S300. It's always Project X LZ, Rogue MSI, Oban, GD ADsomething, Accra, KBS $-Taper, or other expensive exotic.

 

If you really look at flex profiles and playing characteristics, there is always a cheaper option to the exotic that performs and plays pretty much the same.

[Milfordlefty]

Are the prices for shafts and heads? If just shafts, I think pretty good pricing. It is your money and if the performance change means better golf, what better way to spend ones money.

[SecondandGoal]

Club fitting is a much more efficient way to narrow down what works for you than trial-and-error. I'd rather spend an hour or two with a club fitter than spend all day (or time over multiple days) trying all the combos, especially when even the biggest big box stores generally don't carry all the possible shaft combinations, and almost certainly won't have any aftermarket shafts available. I can understand wanting to do it yourself and save the money, but I find my time to be more valuable than the rate paid to the fitter.

 

As far as the OP, you did nothing wrong, and it sounds like you did just fine. I took my wife to get fitted for clubs, and wound up doing the exact same thing. To have them build the bag they recommended for her would have cost almost $4k. I sourced all the components myself, including aftermarket shafts, some lightly used, some on sale, and did the build myself. Wound up costing about $1600, and made an immediate significant improvement in her game.

[MelloYello]

Well, I guess it depends on what you consider "a fitting." It's become increasingly popular for fittings to consist of a launch monitor session (often indoors) wherein a player will hit a series of club and shaft options that range from moderately-expensive to very-expensive.

 

One upside of a simulator session is that you can walk away with a definitive awareness of something (_i.e. those KBS iron shafts launched 2-degrees higher than those DG iron shafts_). That's a real, factual take-away and it can be good to know those things. But you can also ask people and learn that stuff by Googling. And once you know it, you know it.

 

The nice thing about fitting yourself on your own time is that through buying and selling used equipment you can actually own said products and play with them over a more extended period of time getting used to the pro's and con's of whatever it is you're hitting. You can take the stuff onto the course and see if they actually influence your game to any meaningful degree. You may notice on-course differences. You may find those differences are inconsequential.

 

Like, is your golf game influenced at all by changing irons shafts? That's good to know when a DG shaft costs $12 and a Project-X iron shaft often costs $25 or $30.

 

Having experimented on my own with equipment of all sorts, I mostly think that new-age, simulator-based fittings are mostly trivial. They aren't terrible. It's just a question of whether they're useful or not. A lot of what gets done demoing the latest and greatest high-end clubs and shafts on a simulator is not critically-important to your actual golf game.

 

It's much more important that you be fitted for basic things like length and lie. Things like weight and set make-up will become clear to you only after you've played for awhile. You need to buy a hybrid and play with it for awhile before you can really know whether you're comfortable trading out your long irons.

 

It's important to remember that fitters don't actually _play golf with you_ so they are going on nothing but simulator numbers and your feedback. Sadly, they often have a tendency to sell you more stuff than you need, too.

 

Asking people to hit expensive products while beating balls in-doors on a simulator is kind of pointless IMHO. Throwing multiple types of clubs into the bag like extra hybrids or wedges can also be detrimental for some golfers, despite how glorious some shots may appear on a simulator. Noting that there are slight differences in launch and spin is also kind of pointless when they virtually always agree with reviews and/or OEM descriptions.

 

Will a Whiteboard launch and spin a little less than a Blueboard? Yeah, definitely, but you already knew that.

 

In the end, what you carry is your own personal decision. So if you need to know something that a launch monitor tells you, going to a fitter might be helpful. But in the end, choosing your set make-up is your call and you're the only one equipped to really make those decisions.

[BB28403]

How about this twist: find a very capable fitter to order from online. Give them a general overview of how your swing is, your misses...etc. Then order from them online, have them ship you the clubs.

You know from 100 people that they are a great club builder.

A lot of names jump to my mind to try this with. Of course this is versus going down to dicks sporting goods or club champion. With some places you are taking the chance the fitter is not talented, they are just ok.

 

[ChipNRun]

> @mikepatterson0172 said:

>

> In total, the fitters price for the below was £3,350. I've put my version together for £1,675 hopefully without too much compromise and with the option to swap int he recommended items later if I want to.

>

> I'd be really interested to get the forums views on what I purchased vs what I was fit for. In the case of the iron shafts these were the second best performers on the day.

 

In the USA, there's a third route. Get a fitting in a quality regular golf shop. Often the fitting is included in the purchase price if you buy new equipment. And, the fitter can order the custom-fit set from the factory for you. It will cost you about the same as off-the-rack clubs, unless you go with unusual shafts or grips.

 

What you got for £1,675 appears to be money well spent. I've had situations where the upcharge driver shaft gave me +5 yards over the finalists among the stock shafts, but I was unwilling to spend an extra $300 for it. After you play with new clubs awhile, you can tell it any other tweaks are needed.

 

> @Ripken08 said:

> Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same!

 

Natural athletes are not a good basis for comparison. Everyday people benefit from fitting so they get **clubs that won't hurt their game...** as long as they practice once in awhile.

 

>It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use **anything.**

The _Indian-arrow_ analogy+ seeks to give people blanket exemption from thinking. And define **anything**. Let's say a 65-year-old man has a 10 HDCP and normally plays with 80-gram graphite shafts in GI clubs. Would he do well with PX 7.0 shafts in MB irons, and a Tour-Stiff shaft in an 8° Sub-zero driver? Probably not. He would have clubs that hurt his game, not helped it.

 

+ _My apologies to Native Americans who endure this overused phrase._

 

> @SecondandGoal said:

> Club fitting is a much more efficient way to narrow down what works for you than trial-and-error. I'd rather spend an hour or two with a club fitter than spend all day (or time over multiple days) trying all the combos,

>

> As far as the OP, you did nothing wrong, and it sounds like you did just fine. I took my wife to get fitted for clubs, and wound up doing the exact same thing. To have them build the bag they recommended for her would have cost almost $4k. I sourced all the components myself, including aftermarket shafts, some lightly used, some on sale, and did the build myself. Wound up costing about $1600, and made an _immediate significant improvement in her game._

 

Oops, looks like someone improved their game with better arrows...

 

 

[TightStick]

> @aquapig said:

> > @Ripken08 said:

> > Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. Look at Brooke Henderson who uses a 48" driver. All of her clubs are over length and she chokes down. She learned to play with longer men's clubs and adapted. "Basic" fitting parameters such and length and lie I get. Especially for those tall or short players. That can be done statically almost. The rest is over rated....launch monitors, spin numbers, hitting off mats etc. A lot of people on here are OBSESSED with launch monitor numbers. Paralysis by analysis! I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same! Length difference, flex difference etc...... It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use anything. Us mortal players can get by with static fittings for length and lie.

>

> Truth

 

I am a + handicap in my Tuesday night league - I use to travel for work very often - a few times I would forget my clubs or not have time to go home and get them before my tee time. My elderly father leaves his clubs up at the course. I'll grab his sticks - all graphite senior shafted clubs (compared to everything I own in an X-flex) stock length and lie (mine are not) and literally shoot the same scores and many times some of my better scores. I do make some minor adjustments with my swing - but the point being I agree completely with your post - fitting is very overrated.

[Ripken08]

> @TightStick said:

> > @aquapig said:

> > > @Ripken08 said:

> > > Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. Look at Brooke Henderson who uses a 48" driver. All of her clubs are over length and she chokes down. She learned to play with longer men's clubs and adapted. "Basic" fitting parameters such and length and lie I get. Especially for those tall or short players. That can be done statically almost. The rest is over rated....launch monitors, spin numbers, hitting off mats etc. A lot of people on here are OBSESSED with launch monitor numbers. Paralysis by analysis! I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same! Length difference, flex difference etc...... It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use anything. Us mortal players can get by with static fittings for length and lie.

> >

> > Truth

>

> I am a + handicap in my Tuesday night league - I use to travel for work very often - a few times I would forget my clubs or not have time to go home and get them before my tee time. My elderly father leaves his clubs up at the course. I'll grab his sticks - all graphite senior shafted clubs (compared to everything I own in an X-flex) stock length and lie (mine are not) and literally shoot the same scores and many times some of my better scores. I do make some minor adjustments with my swing - but the point being I agree completely with your post - fitting is very overrated.

 

Thanks

 

[Pepperturbo]

Fitting for beginners has merit but for someone like me not nearly as much. I have resources so it's easier for me to fit myself as I taught myself and know my bias. The bias we face with fitters is not only unknown but tied to the equipment they represent and the slim margins they operate on. I can see a fitter facing a $2-$15 spread per shaft can easily lean towards the higher profit shafts. When I lean to higher priced shafts I have only myself to blame. lol

[ChipNRun]

> @TightStick said:

 

> I am a + handicap in my Tuesday night league - I use to travel for work very often - a few times I would forget my clubs or not have time to go home and get them before my tee time. My elderly father leaves his clubs up at the course. I'll grab his sticks - all graphite senior shafted clubs (compared to everything I own in an X-flex) stock length and lie (mine are not) and literally shoot the same scores and many times some of my better scores. I do make some minor adjustments with my swing - but the point being I agree completely with your post - **fitting is very overrated.**

 

...if used improperly. I played with a big guy using soft-shafted boxed clubs that hooks the ball a lot. And I played with a senior using stiff-shafted irons from 20 years ago who complains his 9i only carries 100 yards. I suggest a fitting would help both guys.

[JCAG]

> @Ripken08 said:

> Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. Look at Brooke Henderson who uses a 48" driver. All of her clubs are over length and she chokes down. She learned to play with longer men's clubs and adapted. "Basic" fitting parameters such and length and lie I get. Especially for those tall or short players. That can be done statically almost. The rest is over rated....launch monitors, spin numbers, hitting off mats etc. A lot of people on here are OBSESSED with launch monitor numbers. Paralysis by analysis! I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same! Length difference, flex difference etc...... It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use anything. Us mortal players can get by with static fittings for length and lie.

 

When Tiger Woods was at his peak he always putted with the toe of his putter way up in the air. When asked about it, he said as a kid putters were to long for him so toe up was the way he learned to putt so a toe up putter looked natural to him. Should we all do this?

 

I do agree it is often the Indian, not the bow and arrow but imagine how better the same Indian would be with a better fitted bow and arrow?

[Ripken08]

> @JCAG said:

> > @Ripken08 said:

> > Fitting IMO is pretty over rated. As humans, we adapt to our surroundings and in this case our equipment. Look at Brooke Henderson who uses a 48" driver. All of her clubs are over length and she chokes down. She learned to play with longer men's clubs and adapted. "Basic" fitting parameters such and length and lie I get. Especially for those tall or short players. That can be done statically almost. The rest is over rated....launch monitors, spin numbers, hitting off mats etc. A lot of people on here are OBSESSED with launch monitor numbers. Paralysis by analysis! I play with a +2 handicapper occasionally and he will go in the clubhouse and borrow demo clubs. Guess what, he hits them all the same! Length difference, flex difference etc...... It is the indian not the arrow and good players can use anything. Us mortal players can get by with static fittings for length and lie.

>

> When Tiger Woods was at his peak he always putted with the toe of his putter way up in the air. When asked about it, he said as a kid putters were to long for him so toe up was the way he learned to putt so a toe up putter looked natural to him. Should we all do this?

>

> I do agree it is often the Indian, not the bow and arrow but imagine how better the same Indian would be with a better fitted bow and arrow?

 

How did golfers survive back in the day before fittings and tour vans? They ADAPTED just like Tiger.

[Zigzog]

For me I think getting fitted convinces your mind that the clubs are right for you and so you can be your best with them - that is important as so much of this game is in the mind.

 

Personally I can pretty much play with anything, golfer for 35+ years and still play to a plus handicap easily.

 

I have tried lots of different stuff, but the differences to be are always very small - recently I tried some lighter Steelfiber shafts ( I was having some elbow pain) and found my dispersion was slightly worse over a few rounds; but we are talking a few feet here - not massive at all - despite these being a million miles from the Nippon 125X I was playing.

 

I played a last minute round earlier in the season, I had half an hour to get ready and was an hour from my clubs. I borrowed some and shot 3 under - shafts were a regular flex Dynamic Gold; truth was they made very little difference :smile:

[MelloYello]

You know, I wish it were more easy to simply rent time on a (high-quality) launch monitor. Because that's really what you're paying for.

 

This year I wanted to spend $300 on an aftermarket driver shaft. That's right. I _wanted_ to. What else was I going to spend that on? Honestly, I just wanted to try it and see if it made a difference.

 

So I went looking and found what I thought might be good. I took a look in the bags of certain professionals and considered things I've seen before. I looked at what the latest and great options were from popular companies. And I listened to "fitters" on YouTube talk about various shafts they were experienced with.

 

What I came away with was that there's a HUGE gap between someone who designs a shaft and someone who sells a shaft. The guy who sells the shaft is quoting what's on the website and what's in the catalog. If you have the curiosity you can find that stuff yourself.

 

The guy who fits you probably doesn't have access to more information than you do but he owns a launch monitor. If you go to him and pay him you're paying for his launch monitor (and maybe his experience having seen people hit various shafts). It can save time hearing him recommend things versus asking people on a forum like this.

 

But with the internet, you can get a REALLY good idea of what you're buying before you buy it. And that goes for a lot of different sorts of products these days. You can do the research and know precisely what kind of vehicle you want before you get to the lot. Unfortunately, this has led to the hiring of people who are less and less prepared to actually help you. If you go to a big box store, the guys there won't know the first thing about what shafts are out there.

 

So a fitter can be helpful if you're totally clueless about what's out there. But if you're willing to buy and sell on your own you can experiment and settle on what works for you with the benefit of actually having played the stuff for an extended period instead of just a few swings during a 1- or 2-hour fitting.

 

I prefer the latter, but that's just me. Then again, if I could rent time on a high-quality launch monitor without folks around to bother me, that'd be something I was very interested in.

[TimK1]

> @MooJersey said:

> I will second that fitting is way overrated. Try stuff off the rack. Mix and match shafts. You can figure out what you like on your own and for a lot less coin.

 

I have a two handicap and I can tell you, I have never been fitted. My last set I bought 8 years ago I bought off the rack, right in the pro shop. I just liked the way they looked and felt. Still using them to this day. I have always used just a standard loft and lie and standard length.

I can play with anything.

Drivers, same thing. If I like how it looks and feels then it's good enough for me. I have used some different drivers over the years and my distances didn't change. I have a driver you can adjust and I have never touched it. just keep it neutral. I have no clue how to adjust it.

I bought a set of wedges online without ever touching them and I still use them. I ended up loving them.

 

I don't know if fitting helps or not. I guess if it gives the player more confidence then it is worth it. Over the years I have hit some stuff at demo days at the club and it really made no difference. He changed shafts and flexes, I used different iron heads and my swing and ball flight didn't really change.

I offended the last guy from Callaway. I hit some of the irons the last demo day and hit them well. He thought for sure he had a sale and in the end, I told him, I really did not like the look and feel of the club. He walked away offeded and didn't talk to me for the rest of the day. LOL

[aquapig]

When I really started getting into golf I bought a set of Mizuno MP MP 30s used off the rack.

 

Took a while to adjust my game/swing to them, but once I did with a few lessons, I got to about a 8 handicap. Shot par with those clubs a couple times.

 

My buddies and my brother went to a very highly regarded local fitter. The guy won many national awards for his ability to put people in the right clubs. So I decided "heck, imagine how good I could be with new technology and properly fitted clubs". Decided to go to him and was fitted for a set of 900F with C Taper Lite in X flex. It was an indoor fitting, but he told me that's how he always did his fittings.

 

So I dropped 1,400 on new clubs and the fitting. I struggled a lot with my ball striking after that. But I decided to stick with them because of the money spent. Well after 2 years with them, I had my bag stolen. I was then forced to take the MP30s out and my game has improved again. I never got along with the turn interaction of the chunkier clubs and the shafts felt too stiff.

 

So for me, the fitting didn't work out. Part of it I believe was hitting off a mat indoors. When you dont have to worry about playing your next shot or hitting it fat, you swing a bit differently than being on grass with a target.

[Howard_Jones]

i think this whole debate is plain out stupid.

Fitting is NOT a standardized concept, not even close.

There is good club fitters, and many bad ones.

The reason for why someone wants a fitting is not the same for all, and its not always isolated to improved scoring.

Some play only for fun, but its not funny to play clubs you struggle with.

Even the best players out there cant play "what ever", they need something that works for them to perform and make a living out if it.

The average player will benefit from fitting in general, for the simple reason, the numbers of options today is more than just a jungle, its a massive jungle hardly anyone has the full insight on.

If you feel fitting is overrated, fine, but please dont start debates like this, they helps absolutely nobody at all.

Ive been a member of this forum for about 10 years now, and have posted and replied close to 10.000 posts.

If it was not helpful for other players that i did so, i would have stopped long ago, just like i was advised to stop playing golf due to medical reason, but club fitting and correct fitted equipment makes it possible for me to keep playing. Those who thinks club fitting is overrated, has never been fitted right, but dont blame "fitting" for that, its not a standardized concept and never will be, and if club specs did not matter, this part of the forum would not exist, or died out for "natural reasons" very long time ago.

 

 

[WristySwing]

> @"Howard Jones" said:

> i think this whole debate is plain out stupid.

> Fitting is NOT a standardized concept, not even close.

> There is good club fitters, and many bad ones.

> The reason for why someone wants a fitting is not the same for all, and its not always isolated to improved scoring.

> Some play only for fun, but its not funny to play clubs you struggle with.

> Even the best players out there cant play "what ever", they need something that works for them to perform and make a living out if it.

> The average player will benefit from fitting in general, for the simple reason, the numbers of options today is more than just a jungle, its a massive jungle hardly anyone has the full insight on.

> If you feel fitting is overrated, fine, but please dont start debates like this, they helps absolutely nobody at all.

> Ive been a member of this forum for about 10 years now, and have posted and replied close to 10.000 posts.

> If it was not helpful for other players that i did so, i would have stopped long ago, just like i was advised to stop playing golf due to medical reason, but club fitting and correct fitted equipment makes it possible for me to keep playing. Those who thinks club fitting is overrated, has never been fitted right, but dont blame "fitting" for that, its not a standardized concept and never will be, and if club specs did not matter, this part of the forum would not exist, or died out for "natural reasons" very long time ago.

>

>

 

Howard, this is so true. I have to laugh at all of these + handicaps coming out of the woodwork saying fittings are snake oil when topics like these come up. Of course they are snakeoil to these players, they are better than 99.98% of golfers that will ever play! Their swings are malleable in that they can get what they want. Even one player stated that they can shoot the same scores with their father's senior flex clubs IF they change their swing. That's the key about a fitting, you don't have to change a freaking thing about your swing! The clubs just work for you.

 

I haven't lost any sleep over the guys who I have "swindled" out of thousands of dollars, who then email 3 weeks to a month later saying how they have slashed their handicaps by 8+ strokes and have boosted their FIR and GIR or made many more 1 putts than they ever had previously. Truthfully, I don't even lose sleep over the people who aren't thrilled with their equipment, as that is on me to fix. I know what I'm doing and why I pulled something for you. If it doesn't work outside but works amazing indoors, that's on you, not on me. I can't swing the club for you. I will "fix" it, but 9/10s there isn't anything to fix. The only people who really bother me are the one's who come back later with clubs that clearly perform but say something is wrong and want a refund. This is something we offer but again, 9/10x there is nothing wrong with the clubs and they just found it cheaper online and have buyer's remorse. I have no sympathy for that. We live in an information era, my business is to sell you clubs that work, and the best fitting club is that head + that shaft + that grip that is built by my extremely competent build team. If you get weak in the knees at the price and opt for OEM when a non-upgrade is working so well, I'm not guaranteeing any of it is going to work at that point. Since we live in an information era, it's on the buyer to be savvy of what things cost and what fits their budget. Not to come in for an $5k full bag, pay it, then get ticked at me later on for finding it at GG or PGASS for cheaper, when it has a different shaft or is a 2017 model vs 2019.

 

As for the many comments about fitters not knowing anything apart from what's printed in a catalogue. Those are not good fitters. I don't give a crap what a head/shaft is supposed to do on paper, I give a crap what it does FOR YOU based on the weight, bend profile, and the way you load and unload a shaft. If reading specs online is so useful and better than a fitting, then tell me why I hit C-Tapers higher and with more spin than I do Modus 105s? I know why, but that catalogue sure as heck doesn't.

 

As you guys can probably tell, I am a fitter so I have skin in the game. However, I challenge those that think fitting is hogwash to assess if they had a good fitting. For how populous the U.S. is, there sure are a heck of a lot of you that "don't have a good fitting place within 2-3 hours". I also wonder what you guys expect out of a fitting, based on the many emails my studio gets asking for free, complicated advice but balk when we offer a $20 phone consultation with a fitter. The expectations don't mesh with reality.

 

As for the OP, looks like you did pretty well. The only issue is the Ventus and GP driver shafts are way different bend profiles and the G410 LST is a wildly different beast than the 400 series you bought. Are those going to show to you? Who knows, but *on paper* they would appear to be considerably different to the point that the results wouldn't even be comparable.

[Howard_Jones]

> @WristySwing said:

> > @"Howard Jones" said:

> > i think this whole debate is plain out stupid.

> > Fitting is NOT a standardized concept, not even close.

> > There is good club fitters, and many bad ones.

> > The reason for why someone wants a fitting is not the same for all, and its not always isolated to improved scoring.

> > Some play only for fun, but its not funny to play clubs you struggle with.

> > Even the best players out there cant play "what ever", they need something that works for them to perform and make a living out if it.

> > The average player will benefit from fitting in general, for the simple reason, the numbers of options today is more than just a jungle, its a massive jungle hardly anyone has the full insight on.

> > If you feel fitting is overrated, fine, but please dont start debates like this, they helps absolutely nobody at all.

> > Ive been a member of this forum for about 10 years now, and have posted and replied close to 10.000 posts.

> > If it was not helpful for other players that i did so, i would have stopped long ago, just like i was advised to stop playing golf due to medical reason, but club fitting and correct fitted equipment makes it possible for me to keep playing. Those who thinks club fitting is overrated, has never been fitted right, but dont blame "fitting" for that, its not a standardized concept and never will be, and if club specs did not matter, this part of the forum would not exist, or died out for "natural reasons" very long time ago.

> >

> >

>

> Howard, this is so true. I have to laugh at all of these + handicaps coming out of the woodwork saying fittings are snake oil when topics like these come up. Of course they are snakeoil to these players, they are better than 99.98% of golfers that will ever play! Their swings are malleable in that they can get what they want. Even one player stated that they can shoot the same scores with their father's senior flex clubs IF they change their swing. That's the key about a fitting, you don't have to change a freaking thing about your swing! The clubs just work for you.

>

> I haven't lost any sleep over the guys who I have "swindled" out of thousands of dollars, who then email 3 weeks to a month later saying how they have slashed their handicaps by 8+ strokes and have boosted their FIR and GIR or made many more 1 putts than they ever had previously. Truthfully, I don't even lose sleep over the people who aren't thrilled with their equipment, as that is on me to fix. I know what I'm doing and why I pulled something for you. If it doesn't work outside but works amazing indoors, that's on you, not on me. I can't swing the club for you. I will "fix" it, but 9/10s there isn't anything to fix. The only people who really bother me are the one's who come back later with clubs that clearly perform but say something is wrong and want a refund. This is something we offer but again, 9/10x there is nothing wrong with the clubs and they just found it cheaper online and have buyer's remorse. I have no sympathy for that. We live in an information era, my business is to sell you clubs that work, and the best fitting club is that head + that shaft + that grip that is built by my extremely competent build team. If you get weak in the knees at the price and opt for OEM when a non-upgrade is working so well, I'm not guaranteeing any of it is going to work at that point. Since we live in an information era, it's on the buyer to be savvy of what things cost and what fits their budget. Not to come in for an $5k full bag, pay it, then get ticked at me later on for finding it at GG or PGASS for cheaper, when it has a different shaft or is a 2017 model vs 2019.

>

> As for the many comments about fitters not knowing anything apart from what's printed in a catalogue. Those are not good fitters. I don't give a crap what a head/shaft is supposed to do on paper, I give a crap what it does FOR YOU based on the weight, bend profile, and the way you load and unload a shaft. If reading specs online is so useful and better than a fitting, then tell me why I hit C-Tapers higher and with more spin than I do Modus 105s? I know why, but that catalogue sure as heck doesn't.

>

> As you guys can probably tell, I am a fitter so I have skin in the game. However, I challenge those that think fitting is hogwash to assess if they had a good fitting. For how populous the U.S. is, there sure are a heck of a lot of you that "don't have a good fitting place within 2-3 hours". I also wonder what you guys expect out of a fitting, based on the many emails my studio gets asking for free, complicated advice but balk when we offer a $20 phone consultation with a fitter. The expectations don't mesh with reality.

>

> As for the OP, looks like you did pretty well. The only issue is the Ventus and GP driver shafts are way different bend profiles and the G410 LST is a wildly different beast than the 400 series you bought. Are those going to show to you? Who knows, but *on paper* they would appear to be considerably different to the point that the results wouldn't even be comparable.

 

When i started to write about club fitting i Denmark about 13 years ago, most of those who replied said the sticks dont matter, its all about talent....

I invited a few of them to a "open house session", looked over and measured all their clubs for free, and let them hit all they wanted on my Trackman in my studio.

2 of them became of my best customers, one of them was a university teacher in physics,, he almost passed out when i showed him the weight i added and removed from the driver i made for him, it was 0.4 grams of lead tape. I later made his whole bag and even gave him "private education" in club making, so he does it all by himself now. i also had professional players who almost gave up the game, the mental pressure is silly high when you try to make a living of golf and feel like you want be able to hit the ball at all. With a HDCP 3 to 4 into the sunny side of the scale, its NOT a lack of talent, it was simply a bad "upgrade" of equipment they thought was right for them. Look into the buy and sale section, why is players selling almost new equipment? lack or talent or money? or was the fact that this clubs did not perform as they wanted them too? We have also seen those disappointed after spending 300 USD on a aftermarked shaft, only to find out, there is no "magic" built into any of them, its all about good or bad fit for the player. I will keep up replying and helping anyone who ask for help with their equipment, because i know im able to give them the help i could not find when i meet the wall myself. I was never a talented player, i started with Golf way to late in life, but loved this game from day one, and still do. When someone claims its all about talent....i want to use words that close my profile down, this folks has NO CLUE about what they are talking about. Even Tiger has changed equipment, he tried to play a driver shaft above 100 grams, what happen? we all know, and he changed again, now his back to a weight his body can handle and he wins again, so saying "we adapt" is simply far out, that only happens if specs is within reason of what they should be, if not the clubs will and up in the trade section, end of story.