One length irons stunting development

[North Butte]

> @DavePelz4 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > So I guess I'm not the only one who thought the whole mini-boom in "Single Length" interest was from people wanting to be Just Like Bryson. Or at least being pitched to with that message.

> >

> > The man himself issues a continuous stream of pseudo-scientific babble. I guess a savvy marketeer could pick any number of his quirks and obsessions to capitalize on. The Single Length thing is perhaps first in a long line, if he keeps having success.

>

> Can you imagine if he was playing a KSig?

 

I know, right?

 

Although the GolfWRX servers would be absolute toast the day that happened. And the minds being blown would create a major problem with gray matter pollution of the nation's waterways.

[Mych]

> @"North Butte" said:

> So I guess I'm not the only one who thought the whole mini-boom in "Single Length" interest was from people wanting to be Just Like Bryson. Or at least being pitched to with that message.

>

> The man himself issues a continuous stream of pseudo-scientific babble. I guess a savvy marketeer could pick any number of his quirks and obsessions to capitalize on. The Single Length thing is perhaps first in a long line, if he keeps having success.

 

Anyone who is "different" will get attention because average golfers realize how impossible the game is to master, even with textbook form. Whether it's Furyk, Matthew Wolff, Cameron Champ... anyone who has a unique approach will attract people who would love to figure out how to embrace their quirks and make golf easier.

 

If you want to kill the messenger because of marketing, that should probably be aimed at Cobra. Bryson would be doing this whether he had a big name sponsor or not. I think everyone who has tried Single Length realizes that Bryson will constantly be evolving and changing, as he has with his putting approach. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he showed up next spring with a set of VL clubs playing 3 inches longer than standard and some completely different idea of how to play. He'd win the yearbook award for "most likely to bag both a 48 inch and 41 inch driver" (well, maybe Phil first, but I digress). It's the way he's wired.

 

As far as people who wanted to be "just like Bryson", I'd disagree. For some of us (me), it was a different approach that would potentially allow me to trade a little bit of length in my long irons for better control (4i from 215 down to 200 with better control than my old 5i @ 200). Remember that for half of the clubs it's barely noticeable (5i-8i), essentially the equivalent of a slight choke-up. So it's not as drastic of a departure from VL as it gets characterized as.

 

When you buy a used set of clubs, there's a reason the 3i/4i usually looks like they just came out of the plastic. They're not easy to hit, so anything that helps improve ball striking in that distance range is a little more than a marketing gimmick.

[wakit300]

Feels like the question has been answered - no it will not stunt your development as a golfer and actually might help you be a more consistent golfer faster (with your irons anyway) - but I'm chiming in anyway. :)

I've been playing for 40+ years (currently an 8 hcp) and last winter jumped into the OL arena because it just made too much sense not to try it, plus I'd had experience with one-length wedges. A few years ago I decided to make all my wedges the same length as the PW and it worked out great. I hit a lot of full swing wedges, all the way down to my 60°, and liked the consistency in my setup. I can always choke down for any kind of specialty shot needed. I am not using the DeChambeau swing.

I'm playing the Cobra Forged OL in 6-PW and added the 4-5 Utility OL as well after a few weeks with them. I tried the hybrid but it just didn't work for me.

I appreciate the fact I don't have to practice with every club in the set, just pick one out on the range when warming up, and again there's the consistent setup. I have no problem creating shots or seeing the correct trajectories with these irons. I can't see any difference in hitting shots from various lies - if you can hit a 7-iron from a hanging lie you can hit any club in the OL set. The one thing that took some time to change was ball placement, so all irons are the same as the 7-iron. Especially with the 5 & 6, I wanted to put them farther up toward my forward foot.

Right now I don't see any reason to change back to VL but I'm not extending OL any lower or higher in my set. I like my hybrids and woods as they are and the shorter length wedges as well. The only logical reason I can think to change back to VL is the lack of choices in the OL arena. I'm looking forward to seeing what improvements Cobra makes in it's next iteration of the Forged OL set and hoping that JUST MAYBE they would come out with a One-Length MB/CB combo ... but I know that's a reach.

[JDCON]

It won't stunt you at all. I played them this summer (selling them now in the Classifieds forum), and they were great. But, a hoe has got to hoe so it's time for me to move on.

[rbark11]

> @wakit300 said:

> Feels like the question has been answered - no it will not stunt your development as a golfer and actually might help you be a more consistent golfer faster (with your irons anyway) - but I'm chiming in anyway. :)

> I've been playing for 40+ years (currently an 8 hcp) and last winter jumped into the OL arena because it just made too much sense not to try it, plus I'd had experience with one-length wedges. A few years ago I decided to make all my wedges the same length as the PW and it worked out great. I hit a lot of full swing wedges, all the way down to my 60°, and liked the consistency in my setup. I can always choke down for any kind of specialty shot needed. I am not using the DeChambeau swing.

> I'm playing the Cobra Forged OL in 6-PW and added the 4-5 Utility OL as well after a few weeks with them. I tried the hybrid but it just didn't work for me.

> I appreciate the fact I don't have to practice with every club in the set, just pick one out on the range when warming up, and again there's the consistent setup. I have no problem creating shots or seeing the correct trajectories with these irons. I can't see any difference in hitting shots from various lies - if you can hit a 7-iron from a hanging lie you can hit any club in the OL set. The one thing that took some time to change was ball placement, so all irons are the same as the 7-iron. Especially with the 5 & 6, I wanted to put them farther up toward my forward foot.

> Right now I don't see any reason to change back to VL but I'm not extending OL any lower or higher in my set. I like my hybrids and woods as they are and the shorter length wedges as well. The only logical reason I can think to change back to VL is the lack of choices in the OL arena. I'm looking forward to seeing what improvements Cobra makes in it's next iteration of the Forged OL set and hoping that JUST MAYBE they would come out with a One-Length MB/CB combo ... but I know that's a reach.

Regarding ball placement, you keep the ball in the same spot for every swing then?

 

[DavePelz4]

Wakit did a great job of describing things perfectly. For normal shots, the ball is in the same place regardless of the club. I moved it just slightly forward of center which seems to work best.

[mogc60]

> @eyeeye said:

> > @mogc60 said:

> > > @eyeeye said:

> > > > @Mych said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

> > > > >

> > > > > Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

> > > > >

> > > > > FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

> > > >

> > > > I'm an engineer, so I like listening to Bryson analyze and try to apply physics to the golf swing. That said, I think the SL's have allowed me to develop a more "comfortable" (natural) setup position. I feel that my swing right now is much less mechanical, but that's completely subjective. I think that I'm more capable of self-diagnosing and connecting a result to a specific aspect of my swing because the variables are reduced. There is a trainining wheels aspect to it. If you have a good swing the concept won't have an impact, but on a bad day when it feels like it is falling apart, the result is a little less painful.

> > >

> > > I think the one most important thing that doesn't get pointed out, is Bryson's set is different from the SL irons you could purchase.

> > > As everyone can tell, his setup is very unique (the reason everyone hates his swing) with his arms appearing to be straight in line with golf club's shaft. Well, his clubs are 10 degrees upright. He probably had it bent that much so he doesn't ever have to worry about shallowing the club to the shaft plane, by morphing the shaft plane so it's in a straight line with his shoulders.

> > > His irons are set at 72 degrees in lie angle, where as the Edel's SL standard lie is 62, and the Cobra ones are variable from 61.5 to 63.5. That's about 10 degrees upright in the head, and these manufacturers will only let you bend 2 degrees max (because bending more will mess up all the other angles, as well as a possible breakage). Maybe if more people are willing to buy them at 72 degrees, somebody may make a mold for a blank that's that upright, or weld the hosel on like Miura. Who knows.

> > > But until then, these sets will never be anything similar to Bryson's, and becuase of that, in my humble opinion, going back and forth in SL and VL should not be a "you can't turn back"-esque hard task.

> >

> > So his clubs are fit for him? Weird what a concept. Single length and natural golf(moe) are two different concepts that Bryson morphed together. Not for the masses. These companies are marketing single length irons not Brysons technique. In all honesty very few people on this planet would ever put in the time and effort required to master his technique but the single length concept is very effective for a lot of people and is simple. I don’t think 5’9” guys with standard golf principles need 10 degree upright clubs. Those were made for one man and might only benefit a handful of people in the world with a ton of work on their part.

>

> I don't understand your anger there.

> I'm simply saying his irons are **10 degrees** upright from any irons you can find off the shelf. And that not many people know about it, but thinks it's the same one Bryson uses.

> Did I say anything negative about his set being "FIT"?

There was no anger at all in my response. Just saying 10 degrees upright wouldn’t be doable for really anyone but him.

 

[Tugu]

> @DavePelz4 said:

> > @Tugu said:

> > I'm yet to see anyone hit the same flight/distance with their one length long iron as they do with regular lengthed long iron. Unless the said person is a very bad long iron player with regular clubs or has above average swing speed, with a matching swing pattern.

> > Does this count as arrested development?

>

> Let me know when you're in Chicago.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the concept. But I think they should look like the following to make them work in the long irons. All I ever see is low running bullets and super high short irons.

 

 

[MountainGoat]

> @wakit300 said:

> Feels like the question has been answered - no it will not stunt your development as a golfer and actually might help you be a more consistent golfer faster (with your irons anyway) - but I'm chiming in anyway. :)

> I've been playing for 40+ years (currently an 8 hcp) and last winter jumped into the OL arena because it just made too much sense not to try it, plus I'd had experience with one-length wedges. A few years ago I decided to make all my wedges the same length as the PW and it worked out great. I hit a lot of full swing wedges, all the way down to my 60°, and liked the consistency in my setup. I can always choke down for any kind of specialty shot needed. I am not using the DeChambeau swing.

> I'm playing the Cobra Forged OL in 6-PW and added the 4-5 Utility OL as well after a few weeks with them. I tried the hybrid but it just didn't work for me.

> I appreciate the fact I don't have to practice with every club in the set, just pick one out on the range when warming up, and again there's the consistent setup. I have no problem creating shots or seeing the correct trajectories with these irons. I can't see any difference in hitting shots from various lies - if you can hit a 7-iron from a hanging lie you can hit any club in the OL set. The one thing that took some time to change was ball placement, so all irons are the same as the 7-iron. Especially with the 5 & 6, I wanted to put them farther up toward my forward foot.

> Right now I don't see any reason to change back to VL but I'm not extending OL any lower or higher in my set. I like my hybrids and woods as they are and the shorter length wedges as well. The only logical reason I can think to change back to VL is the lack of choices in the OL arena. I'm looking forward to seeing what improvements Cobra makes in it's next iteration of the Forged OL set and hoping that JUST MAYBE they would come out with a One-Length MB/CB combo ... but I know that's a reach.

 

I agree with every word of this post, and I also play Cobras (F7s). I don't understand why single length hasn't caught on yet.

 

In response to another question (above) -- yes, you play them all at the same point in your stance.

 

[wakit300]

> @rbark11 said:

> Regarding ball placement, you keep the ball in the same spot for every swing then?

>

@Rbark11, yes as all irons are 7-iron length every normal shot setup should be like your 7. Feels weird at first but that's how they are designed.

Of course, you can change that up if you want to hit higher, lower, etc.

 

 

 

[billh17]

> @Johnny_Fairway said:

> > @rbark11 said:

> > This is probably a stupid question, but will playing with one length irons stunt my development as a golfer?

>

> I used single length my first season of playing and got down to a 12 or 13 index. I had a similar question about whether single length would hinder my long-term improvement.

>

> I therefore tried variable length irons my second year (last year) and finished unchanged at an index around 13. But to be fair, I was bouncing around sets (everything from Cleveland Launcher HBs to Hogant Ft Worths) to see what I like. So in additional to the variability of variable length, I never settled in with any particular iron set.

>

> I'm back to single length for year three and currently at an 8 index. I play 18 to 27 holes per week, with no additional time for practice. I don't know whether I'd use them if I could play everyday, but single length seems to simplify the game for me. I don't see any long-term harm in using them if they seem to work for you. My biggest upside in using single length is confidence in believing I'll put a good move on the ball no matter which iron I have in my hand.

>

>

 

year one of playing golf and you got to a 12...year two you finished staying around a 13, and now, your 3rd year of playing golf,you are an 8. And play once a week, maybe 27 holes.

Awesome. Simply amazing. Good for you !

[ARL67]

I play my L,S,G,PW at an SL length of 38.25” gripped.

I then go in 1/4” increments from 9-5 with my 5i at 37.5” gripped.

I use descending swing weights of 0.5 per club

Then a 4H at 39.5 and 3H at 40.0

I can’t see deviating from this build for a long time. This give me one length for my scoring clubs, and some minor added shaft length throughout the bag to not sacrifice distance. No much changes in my stance / address over the ball.