Shorter Shafts in Long Irons?

[NorthStar7]

 

Has any one tried to roll their own modified one-length iron concept?

I am really comfortable with my irons until I get to 5-Iron and 4-Iron, which I would guess is common. I have a 3 Hybrid and 4 Hybrid. I find that I hit the 4 Hybrid much more consistently and actually often further than the 3 Hybrid. I cut down my 3W by an inch and turned it from a hit-and-hope club to a weapon. I experimented with cutting down my driver an inch and my swing speed actually went up. In other words, shorter seems almost universally better for me in the long game, but I would never want to play longer short irons (like a one-length set would have).

I tried a G410 3 Crossover with a 6-Iron shaft in it because the fitting choices were limited. I was more trying the head than the shaft but it was so easy to hit it felt like stealing.

So now I am thinking....in my next set, why wouldn't I order my 6I, 5I, and 4I Crossover all with 6I length?

Assuming the swing weight issues can be sorted out one way or the other, what would be the downsides? Would it be tough to gap them? If so, would power spec'ing the 5I and/or 4I solve that?

My guess is that at some point I may have height issues on my shots and being able to stop the ball on greens...but usually if I am hitting a 200-220 yard shot, I am not overly concerned with that. I will keep one hybrid in the bag for shots that need more height.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adam C]

I say go for it. I built my own modified length irons with 1/2 inch progression in the 4,5,6 irons, and then 1/4 inch progression in the 7,8,9,PW,SW. My issue was not liking the feeling of having to bend over too much with the short irons especially 9-SW. You hear that shorter shafts are more precise but for me the longer shafts in those irons achieved much more consistent launch characteristics. My mid irons have always been more accurate than my short ones which spurred on this experiment.

All this is to say, there is no right or wrong way to set up your clubs especially for length since it's an arbitrary measurement from the OEMs.

The only issue is getting your lie angle and gapping right, so having clubs that are easily bendable is very helpful. I had to do some loft adjustments on the short irons to dial them back.

Of course with your preferences, the other option would be to just choke down to achieve the right length, and maybe use some grips with less taper for more consistent feel.

[mylesb21]

I just built a set with 3/8" increments to experiment with an MOI matched build. My PW is 36", 9-iron 36.5", 8-iron 36.875, 7-iron 37.25" and so on (so shorter irons are a little longer than standard, long irons a bit shorter). My 5-iron and 4-iron are 38" and 38.375", which feel great, and what's nice is the reduced swing weight in the long irons too. I think this makes a pretty huge difference.

I'd recommend giving this option a try.

[uglande]

I agree. I'm 6'5" but I don't need extra length in my mid or long irons. I only need it at the bottom of the bag. This is a common flaw with fitting conventions, IMO. A 4 iron that's an inch over length is super heavy and unwieldy and will produce worse results and less distance than a standard length club that's easier to hit consistnetly. So what's the point of the added length?

I created a set last year that was +1 in the PW and 9 iron, +3/4 in the 8, +1/2 in the 7, +1/4 in the 6 and standard length in the 5 and 4. This produced 1/4 length separations between most irons instead of 1/2. Of course, this lead to some swing weight variation, but I found that it worked perfectly, because the swing weights got fractionally lighter as the clubs got longer. You can always use lead tape if you want to keep swing weights identical.

[scooterhd2]

I play a cobra f8 one length 5 and 6 irons. And then a variable length 7-GW. Never been more confident with long irons. I used to dread hitting a 5 iron into a green. Some of my worst holes were long par 3s. Now I have no problem pulling it out of the bag. My apex hybrid is also cut down an inch, and then has a heavier weight in the head to maintain swingweight. Still experimenting with hybrids in general, but this has been the least left bias hybrid I have used. I'm 6'1 for reference.

[Howard_Jones]

You should look into 3/8" set ups, those are easy to build and play.

If your #9 iron is like you want it to be, and clubs longer gets progressively harder to play, this is the solution.

Here is 6 different option for shorter club length progression as DIY - If you look at the 3/8" route, your #4 iron will be 5/8" shorter than now, and if we compress it even more and go 5/16" between clubs, your #4 iron would be 15/16" shorter than now or almost 2 clubs shorter.

This chart shows all 6 options based on a standard set, and tells both the needed butt cut, new play lengths, and how much weight needed on the heads to make a "poor mans MOI match" where all clubs will have the same actual resistance (or as close we can get)

 

[NorthStar7]

 

That's a good point about lie angle. I hadn't thought about that. My plan is to get i210s or potentially whatever they are replaced with in January. While not super bendable, I can probably move them a degree or two.

Ideally I will be able to hit a 6I, 5I, and 4 crossover for gapping before ordering and potentially have Ping set the loft/lie correctly out of the gate.

I could just order them standard and choke down, but that has always felt awkward to me. Also, I wonder if Ping would deal with adjusting the swing weight if I ordered shorter whereas if I choke down, the swing weight will change.

 

 

 

[mylesb21]

Totally agree Howard. I used your charts to make my recent MOI build this week. So far I'm very happy with it. My only issue is the PW and 9-iron are out of the 7-gram weight increment (PW=298gr, 9i=289gr, 8i=279). I can't drill into the base of the hosel on either iron as they're quite firm. I've yet to find a club builder who is willing to drill some weight out of the hosel with a drill press. Suggestions?

[NorthStar7]

 

That's an excellent idea. If Cobra has already figured it out, ride that train. Did you hit the 5 & 6 prior to ordering? Did you use the same shafts in the Cobras and your other irons?

I currently have two hybrids...Titleist 816 H2s in 19 and 21 degrees. They can go up 2 degrees and down 1 degree. My plan is to use the shorter 4 hybrid shaft with one of the two heads to get the right flight and distance. I figure with a range of 18* - 23* to work with, I can gap it well with my 4 Crossover, whatever that distance turns out to be.

 

 

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

Thats heavy for a PW, and 10 grams is about the max we can drill out from the Hosel. Its no big deal at all, we just have to study the hosel shape carefully from all angles before we start, so we know the limit for how deep we can go with the widest drill bit we use. We start small and go wider in steps. Anyone who has a drill press and a hosel fixture can do it

Seems like you need 3 grams lower on the #9, and about 5 down on the PW....thats NOT hard or risky at all, its when we need about 10 its risky

 

Hosel Drilling chart: IMPERIAL drill bit size - As you can see, using the largest 5/16 drill bit (as the last), you only need to go 3/8 deep to remove 4.71 grams....NO ISSUE

If you use metric drill bits, use this chart

 

 

[mylesb21]

Howard -- thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I knew I wasn't crazy when the wedge and 9-iron head weights and swing weights were out of line with the rest of the set. I'll just have to find a club builder who can drill out the head weight. Suggestions is the US?

[BraxtonFullerton]

Amen to this. I have my entire set in One Length and the only thing I'd like a do-over for is getting a gap wedge with a shorter shaft; it's tough to be precise with it around the green or if I want to choke down on it.

But I would recommend trying maybe a One Length 4 Hybrid with a 5 and 6 iron. That'd probably be your best bet to having an easier time. Just remember that it'll take time to get used to the new shaft lengths in your head and in your stance.

Also, swing weight is very important when you start messing with the shaft lengths to keep proper gapping. You can tinker with going with the mixed set, but you may end up needing to bend some of your variable lengths to align better distance-wise.

[NorthStar7]

@Howard Jones thanks for all the information. Spreading out the gaps over many clubs is an interesting idea. I don't know if I want to mess with the lengths of my 8, 7 and maybe even 6 iron....though the difference between 1/2" and 3/8" would probably be hardy noticeable at any one increment. Food for thought.
If I decide to only adjust the 4 and the 5 to the 6 iron length, am I reading your chart correctly to assume that I'd need to add 2.4 grams to the 5 iron head and 8 grams to the 4 iron head?

[Howard_Jones]

Those longest irons will NOT be like the others then, but clubs of their own

Do a search for 3/8" set ups, its quite common.