“The Match”

[ebrasmus21]

Just finished reading The Match. It was a very entertaining read and I’d recommend it to anyone.

After reading I’m just wondering how much of the story is embellished. I’m not saying that it is embellished but I couldn’t help but feel that the author took some creative liberties in his description of events.

Any one out there a history buff on this topic?

[DE-ILLINI]

i can not comment on the accuracy of the book, but if you enjoyed the Match you should also read the Grand Slam and the Greatest Game Ever Played.

[Sean2]

The Match was a very good book.

[dave willie]

Because I'm a big fan of Ben Hogan, I really liked the book. I also learned a lot about Harvie Ward, who I'd never previously heard of. He was a great amateur player who was made an example of somewhat later for violation of amateur rules. Almost ruined him, sadly.

[ebrasmus21]

How could the scorecards have possibly gone missing for one?

IDK... it was a good story if nothing else.

[Bushwood Country Club]

Mark Frost is a reputable and established author and screenwriter. Somehow, I don’t suspect he did too much, if any, embellishing of the story.

[dlygrisse]

 

this is a li k I found to Frost telling the story of how he wrote it most of the details come from Ken Venturi he also interviewed Byron right before he died

 

[ebrasmus21]

Very interesting video, thanks for sharing.

[PowderedToastMan]

I loved the book, but there are clearly some embellishments. Some examples stick out:

-Frost adds dialogue between the players that in no way could have been heard by anyone other than the players themselves. So there has to be some creative liberties taken.

-No one hits a bad shot in the entire book. Also, somehow every shot is documented with detail when supposedly there were only a couple spectators to start the match.

-Ken Venturi and Harvie Ward were the dominant amateurs of their time, and clearly amazing golfers, but they are portrayed as essential equals to Hogan and Nelson. There are about 3 other people in golf history who are equals to Hogan and Nelson.

I have no doubt that amazing golf was played during this match, and I wish I was there to witness it. I don’t believe the play-by-play that Frost gives is as the match actually played out. No offence to Frost though, who no doubt did exhaustive research to compile this book.

 

[golfandfishing]

Aside from verbatim transcripts - No written account of any event is free from embellishments.

[EricWGolf]

Every golf fanatic should read “The Greatest Game Ever Played.” Although it can read like a history textbook at times (Frost’s “storytelling” skills improved greatly in his later books), it is packed with critical information about the origin and history of of the game up until the pivotal moment of the 1913 U.S. Open. Unlike the Disney-fied movie, it gives you the facts and drama to understand why the 1913 U.S. Open may have been the single greatest sporting event in history. It is a book that takes a little work to complete because its broad scope tells not just the story of Ouimet in 1913, but all of golf to that point. And when you finish it, you know it was worth it - like climbing a big hill; both a sense of accomplishment that you made it and a view that only those who make the climb get to see.

[dalehead]

Ken Venturi, in an interview with another writer, said he had the scorecard.

[Obee]

Interesting. When you say "portrayed as equals," what do you mean? They were, in fact, (nearly) equals that day, by all accounts. What are you doubting?

[PowderedToastMan]

Frost describes the abilities of Venturi and Ward as impossibly good. Ward hits a ball that never curves or misses the fairway, and has an ungodly ability to hit any second putt in the hole regardless of distance. Venturi can hit every shot and never misses a shot. I can go on.

Essentially the point is that, while they were incredible players, they weren’t as good as Hogan or Nelson on skill level alone, not even judging by record.

Ward and Venturi played seemingly perfect golf that day, and still lost. So while Ward and Venturi came close that day, it’s one day. Hogan and Nelson had prolonged greatness because they were simply better, and in a different league than the amateurs.

Read the book and you’ll feel like Venturi should have won double digit majors and Ward should have been Bobby Jones 2.0.

[Obee]

Gotcha. I did read the book, actually. Loved it. That just wasn't something that really stood out to me at the time, I guess, but I could see how you would take issue with that, for sure.

However, by all accounts, Ward was like Jay Sigel and Allen Doyle -- amateurs who were so good that the moment the turned pro, they were immediately as good as the senior PGA Tour players they played against. You don't win back-to-back U.S. Amateurs without being an absolutely elite golfer.

Like you said, though: Nelson and Hogan were ... Nelson and Hogan. So point taken. :-)

[Hawkeye77]

In fairness, Venturi's career came to a screeching halt at 32/33.

His one major was one for the ages. Should have won The Masters, who knows may have won a couple more majors, but that's speculation of course.

Of course, he wasn't Hogan or Nelson, but I do agree on that day, at that time, under those circumstances his star was pretty bright.

[Darth Putter]

It's hard to see the future.

It's also hard to see the past.

History Lessons - Golf Digest

 

 

[Darth Putter]

Ward and Venturi were supposed to be "The Next One" to replace the Hogan/ Snead/ Nelson generation. Venturi nearly won The Masters as an amateur three months after this match. But it turned out to be Arnold Palmer who had one PGA Tour win when The Match was played.

[Bushwood Country Club]

Also - note where Hogan and Nelson were in their careers. If memory serves me, Nelson had already retired when the match was played.

[ebrasmus21]

The impression I got reading the book is that Byron came extremely close to mastering his swing.

[MattyO1984]

When I read the title of this, I shuddered at the thought this meant there had been some announcement of the second Tiger vs Phil match...thank goodness it wasn’t.

[gvogel]

As a result of this thread, I downloaded "The Greatest Game Ever Played." Great book for a long weekend, and better than the movie.

[ebrasmus21]

My first novel should be the match between Jack, Arnie, Phil and Tiger all playing wolf-hammer.

[jonsnow]

Mark Frost is a highly accomplished writer & his golf books are more the result of him being a huge golf fan, not really his primary career. He helped write Hill Street Blues & was one of the creators of Twin Peaks. I've read The Match & The Grand Slam; Bob Jones got similar treatment in The Grand Slam. Being a big fan of amateur golf in general & Bobby Jones in particular, I enjoyed both immensely even though I agree with PTM about the quality of golf perhaps being embellished.

 

Early in The Grand Slam, Frost tells the story of Bob Jones & a friendly round at East Lake prior to the Grand Slam year when they were caught in a sudden, severe thunderstorm & had to run for shelter, As they got near the clubhouse a bolt of lightning struck a chimney & shattered it. The group had to dodge falling bricks to get to shelter. It was only once they were inside that Jones realized he had been struck by some of the falling brick/concrete, tearing a hole in his shirt & producing a nasty gash along his upper back/neck. Frost wondered if this may have caused the later health issues Jones suffered with. I had never heard this story before even though I've read everything I can find on Bob Jones & found it very interesting.

[mocokid]

Yes, I think Venturi embellished it, however, all 4 of those guys could go low. Great read.

[CasualLie]

Great writing / storytelling. Made more interesting if you have played Cypress so you can picture it better as the book unfolds. But it is still "embellished". No one can agree on the actual scores. No one can agree on how many people were actually there. The idea of 5,000 people waiting around the 18th green is quite comical. Venturi / Ward were great sticks nonetheless, no doubt they could keep pace with Hogan/Nelson on a given day. And they did beat Nelson/Fleck at Harding Park a week later. That's not under any dispute for scores or crowds.

[stingerfade]

Al of mark frosts golf books are great reads. Greatest game ever played is like a history book and is an absolute page turner. Grand slam as well. Shocking when I learned he was also the creator/writer of Twin Peaks which is one of my favorite TV series of all time. Way ahead of its time in the 90s.

[JohnnyCashForever]

"List of Seven" was a fun read back in the day, as I recall.

[stingerfade]

Cool I’ll have to take a look