Any new TM drivers in the works?

[mrmikeac]

Literally don’t know the story behind the head but as far as I know, it’s a mixture of discretionary head weighting, think a mix between SLDR and F9. I for one cannot wait to hit it.

[Vienus]

Sounds good

[getitdaily]

I swear TM engineers underdelivered on ballspeed because they were able to make incremental increases in distance through launch and spin. I was really surprised when m5 was slower than ts3 and m4. M5 is really good on off center strikes...really good. But centered strikes aren't fast. But I still hit it further than m4.

So, there's room for ballspeed improvements from what I saw.

Now, your friend could just be hitting the new stuff in hotter spots...

[mrmikeac]

That very well could be the case. Who knows until we all try it right? I will say, TM drivers in the past have always been slower in the toe area for me but very hot off the heel side so hopefully they address that issue. I haven’t played a TM driver since the 2016 M2, imo they haven’t improved on it. Still one of the best drivers ever made.

 

Right now at the moment, nothing has come close to taking my G410 out of the bag, the only driver that has kept up with it was the ST-190G but there were no gains and the Ping still feels better off the face for me. So hopefully TM can bring something faster to the table because since TwistFace came around, their drivers seemed to slow down a little.

[noodle3872]

Like everyone, more ball speed all around the face is great however I want TM to come out with an adjustable series of fairway woods in the head size of the M6. If Callaway, Titleist and Ping can make a big 3 wood with an adjustable hosel why can’t TM.

[getitdaily]

I'm the opposite. I've hit everything and TM beats them all. Too much spin from cobra and ping. Too erratic with titleist. Haven't tried anything callaway in a while.

[Richsgbox]

Same with me. Ive tinkered with every '19 model driver and my M6 has performed better. I had great numbers with St190 but not as long. This year has been so good for woods. Im really not expecting much improvement for 2020.

[TheMoneyShot]

Please tell us more?

[SubaruWRX]

Would they be worth it at $1,300?

[Noke]

All TM drivers nowadays should be right at the CT limit if they continue to use the goo behind the face. That was their big marketing ploy on the last release.

 

Any ball speed gains will be due to a better fit for that particular golfer on that particular day.

[TaylorMade Golf]

Or something else... ?

[getitdaily]

C'mon now. This is a disingenuous post.

[Valtiel]

When hit out of the middle, yes. Most of the ball speeds gains in recent years have been coming from higher averages across the board given that most strikes that are less than perfect. Remember that the CT limit applies to those perfect strikes with everything else obviously falling off. Lessening that fall off with different types of face tech, slots/recoil channels, and whatever other tech they can dream up combined with the push for higher MOI and lower CG is where everyone is going.

I said it in last years Taylormade thread and I will say it again this year, there is a very large area that no modern driver has touched yet and that is a maxed out MOI driver with truly low CG. The G400 MAX came close to maxing out on MOI, but the CG compared to the rest of the market is pretty middle. The image below shows the large area that no modern driver has touched, and THAT is really the only true "next generation" of driver performance, and if you want to understand why then read up on the relationship between MOI, CG, and vertical gear effects. Part of me wonders if companies haven't gone there yet because its too difficult or because they know that within the USGA limits there is nowhere else to go after that.

 

[getitdaily]

They all have to get to that area incrementally or they won't have innovation left.

[Shakespeare]

Can you summarize the benefit of high moi around the neutral axis so I dont have to read anything ?

[noodle3872]

My assumption; high launch, low spin with extreme forgiveness across the entire face.

[getitdaily]

Hi moi should be fairly easy to understand at this point in the driver game....forgiveness

CoG at or below the neutral axis means higher energy transfer to the ball and less gearing (side spin).

 

So high moi means off center hits are less punishing. CoG near neutral axis means faster ballspeeds and less fluctuation in spin. Low strikes won't spin up as much.

[Lenny2]

There will not be substantial ball speed gains

[Vienus]

Just look at Flash Face; when it would be this groundbreaking everybody would be gaming it. That’s not the case; B Grace was playing a OG Epic in South Africa and D Willet is gaming the Rogue

[Shakespeare]

Got it...so OEM's have been able to do one or the other..but not really both...so not being a engineer, I wonder what has kept them back..except maybe the driver would be really expensive

[getitdaily]

My guess is 1 of 2 things:

1. They know how to get there, but as mentioned, once there where do you then go? Driver innovation would be nearly capped. They have to get there slowly to keep selling drivers.

2. It'll take serious innovation to get there and they haven't found it yet. Think different materials. Maybe it's not carbon crowns that take the next leap. Maybe it's something lighter and stronger.

[Cwing]

Sounds like there may be need for a new goo review ??

[hurley999s]

My guess is it has nothing to do with face/MOI. And COR/CT being maxed out, that leaves the only part of the equation left...and it lines up with the new SIM name - speed. Will likely be touting faster clubhead speeds (vis a vis aerodynamic/CG design) and thus faster ball speeds. I think this was the “general” angle Cobra took with F9 last year.

Makes sense too - as we inch our way to driver innovation being topped off, you spend a couple years/release cycles working on face improvements (twist face, speed injection), then switch gears to improve aerodynamics for a couple release cycles, then repeat with new face technology.

I could see it drawing out like this the next 10 years, which is probably what they’ve got in their corporate strategic plans because who knows what USGA/R&A will have in place at that time in terms of regulation changes.

Just my $0.02 as an observer - not an insider, and didn’t read any of this anywhere. Just putting on my own business hat and thinking about what makes sense from my perspective.

[Z1ggy16]

I can't use quotes for some reason, but in response to @Valtiel post - my guess is companies know exactly how to get the high MOI and the CG right near the neutral axis, but it's either going to be cost prohibitive because the materials or processes you'd need to use would make the driver cost a fortune or because once you go there, there's really nowhere else to go. I highly doubt it's physically impossible. I mean, technically all you need to do to increase MOI is add head weight around the perimeter to any of those heads in the graph that are at the neutral line. Slap like 10-15g of lead tape on the bottom back of that gen 2 PXG head and you prob get pretty close.
As an engineer myself, there's always a 'theoretical' solution to every problem that you can come up with pretty quickly. The real challenges come in once you need to 'get back to reality' and start to factor in costs, schedules, and manufacturing.

[hurley999s]

Do you have a full screenshot to show the rest of the drivers in the legend? It’s only visible to H, and my curiosity wants to see the rest (TM M series, SLDR, callaway X2 Hot).

[leezer99]

I'm not about to read through 27 pages of replies to this topic so forgive me if this was already brought up but thinking about TM drivers (or any really) is that everything is modifiable except for CG. If the new TM driver has a way to move the CG with the turn of a screw you could see some significant changes to performance that's individualized for every user.

[Valtiel]

Do a google search for "Driver CG Report 2019" and you can check out the whole thing for yourself. I'm not sure if i'm missing something here or you're making a dry joke, but that is what moveable weights do? Obviously we've had those for ages.

 

[hurley999s]

Great, thanks...didn’t realize it was from the other site. ? Thought you had some restricted access reports there.

[Valtiel]

No worries! I certainly am not someone who has access to anything special, hah.

[Gary Gutful]

How many more sleeps?