Dealing with a culture of gimme's (not holing out) and other cheating

[Augster]

After the posting season and after they’ve taken the rakes in for the season, the guys I’m playing with always want to play LCP in the bunkers because of the footprints. I always say I don’t want to because the rules don’t REQUIRE you to hit into bunkers. If it was a requirement to hit it in the bunker, then we could have a discussion. It’s an obstacle that is supposed to be avoided. They also want to play LCP in the rough. I’m always against that because it doesn’t take any skill to hit it in the rough. Take a swing with your eyes closed. I’m betting 9/10, if you hit it, it’s going to be in the rough. No skill involved.

 

My other favorite saying for these whiners is, “Don’t like the lie? Don’t hit it there.”

[bladehunter]

Absolutely. And the ones asking for the help are always the guys that struggle from a trap no matter of it has footprints or not. And they want to roll it and tee it up everywhere. The good ballstrikers aren’t asking for that. Why? They know that spin is control and teeing the ball up is lower spin.

[Warrior42111]

what the actual number of people in the group that want to play without gimmies? If you have enough numbers perhaps break off and make your own group. If you're part of the minority it's either player by the "league" rules or find a new group.

[SecondandGoal]

At my club, all tournaments all rules are strictly reinforced. No gimmes, everything has to be in the hole (unless it's a match play tournament and you're out of the hole). Same thing for our league. Even applies to our monthly Jack and Jill tournaments, which are definitely more for fun and less competitive.

We also do Saturday/Sunday morning skins, pins, and usually some other random game across all groups. I refuse to participate in it because I've seen guys giving each other 4, 5, 6 foot putts, even though the stipulation is that you've got to play every ball in the hole. Not a lot of groups, but enough that I don't want to put my money in the pot.

[rogolf]

Sometimes we'll say, "move it if you think you have to." Then their ego takes over and they play it as it lies.

[Quasimoto]

I wonder about the opinions of people picking up at max strokes. Even playing for $ this happens.

We see that a lot in pro-ams so there seems to be at least some measure of legitimacy to do this.

[Newby]

Pro ams are really circus shows not golf. Witness the recent one with preferred lies in bunkers

[DaveLeeNC]

I once played tennis with a former Division II tennis player (I got beaten pretty soundly) - call him Tom. He told me a story about playing a college match where in the first game his serve and volley opponent was clearly foot faulting (which gave him a nice advantage in getting to the net). On the 3rd point he pointed out that the opponent was foot faulting (most college matches do not have officials calling the lines). His opponent just said 'we aren't calling foot faults'.

So when the service changed Tom took his first serve from the service line (like halfway to the net). Tom's opponent said 'what are you doing' and Tom said "I am serving and we aren't calling foot faults". Kind of the tennis equivalent of the above.

dave

[Sawgrass]

Rule 21.2, discussing the Maximum Score type of stroke play, is one way of making this completely legitimate.

[Quasimoto]

Thank you sir

[Pulledabill]

Money on the line I feel everything should be putted. I putt everything as its good tourny practice. Drives me nuts when someone kicks me my ball.

[unlucky]

I play in 2 different club that have very different approach to holing out. I was a little upset when I start playing in groups that will give 3-4 footers if they are out of the hole or have no chance wining the net or gross for the day. But quickly I released that are only hurting themselves by reverse sandbagging their HCP.  Let them take those putts and hope you are not paired with them in a random draw tournament. 

[Singapore Joe]

If you don't mind me joining in...

I usually like to finish unless it's a SF competition and the whole is going all belly up. Just pick up and move on. However, I have a playing partner who is massively impatient. Even if we show up on the course on time to warm up a bit and do a few putts, as soon as we get out of the dressing rooms he starts to rush rush rush us to the course which kind of sucks if you haven't had time to get any feel of the greens or warm up.

During the play he will start rushing you and insisting you pick up fairly long putts which is kind of annoying. I don't care that we are just playing a casual round. First of all, I'm paying a ridiculous amount of money to play so I want to finish the holes properly. Second, it's not exactly unheard of that I miss those 3-4 footers and I want to play the ball all the way to the hole. Lord knows I need all practice I can get, it's a bad mind set for actual comps where it matters to not be used to finishing the holes properly. Third, the game is kind of supposed to be played according to the rules. Fourth, I don't see the point of not finishing a hole just to rush to wait in the next tee box.

When I refuse to pick up he goes on all sorts of "did you know that according to the rules, when an opponent gives you a putt you MUST pick up?". Yeah, if we are in a match play. Last I checked we are not. The experience, however, has taught me it's best to just be quiet and not go to a detailed rules discussion ;)

[Sawgrass]

I appreciate your values. And note that a rules debate with this person is not in your best interests. But for the record, and if it helps, it’s not only the fact that you’re not in a match that justifies your right/desire/obligation to putt out, but even if you were actually in a match with this guy, if he concedes a putt to you there is generally no rule that prevents you from putting out — unless you have a (literal) match play partner (not an opponent) and your putt might help your partner with his next stroke. (A committee may introduce a local rule preventing practice putting after your hole is over, but it’s almost never done in match play.)

His concession ends the hole for you, but other than the partnership issue I described (and the described local rule) there’s no issue other than politeness that precludes you from immediately putting, or choosing to putt out after your opponent finishes.

[Singapore Joe]

Appreciate the reply, Sawgrass. Will archive this in an appropriate drawer in my brain to be pulled out as needed.

This guy is an uncle of mine so I play with him whenever I visit my parents (I live two continents away so I don't just drop by for a coffee but stay a fair bit of time) and sometimes I go to golf trips with him. I know how to deal with (read: mostly ignore) his peculiarities but some playing partners do get a bit perplexed of WTF is going on.

[llewol007]

Depends what your group decides. We give putts all the time unless it’s a qualifier meaning for birdie, sandy, for the win. That stuff has to be holed out. If you aren’t in the hole putting for bogey and you have a 2 footer. Go ahead and pick it up.

[bladehunter]

Couldn’t agree more. I have one playing partner who will do this same thing. Always a hurry. Whoever is last to putt on the hole he will try to get you to pick it up and I’ll putt anyway and say “ i want to see it go in”. I just don’t see the point in cutting the hole short.

[Singapore Joe]

The common argument is that we need to speed up, we must be miles behind the group in front. No we are not, we just waited a good five minutes for them to clear the green and they are still waiting in the next tee box. I don't think it's a rational thing, though, neither is there malice intent. Just a personal characteristic which can't be (easily) changed. It shows in the whole life, not just in golf. I also don't want to be too harsh on my uncle, after all it is still my choice to play with him and I do enjoy most rounds and I do enjoy his company. Besides, we all have our peculiarities, some of which are less, some more irritating to the others.

I also don't see how rushing people will speed up the game. You'll just make them nervous and they'll start shanking their shots all over the place. I don't see how gimmies will speed up the game to any substantial extent, either. The solution to the pace of play comes from the course maintenance, not from short cuts in the game. But that's a whole different topic which has been discussed to death over the years.