Reeds scrape away

[Pepperturbo]

You added "long rough". I never mentioned that aspect.

[LICC]

Ok,, any rough.

[cardoustie]

no wonder @Pepperturbo supports PReed, he's doing the exact same thing in the fairway, not the waste bunker. What a cluster f_ck Peps !!!!
We now have video evidence x 3 of Reed improving his lie in waste areas with club dragaways before he plays his shot. Twice in back to back rounds in Tiger's event
His claim of unintentional is DEAD. He 100 percent knew he was doing this and is now flat out lying.
A smarter man would have said, "I thought this was allowed in waste areas" ... even commenting on the Kuchar BS and Stewart Cink (Hilton Head) well known Waste Area dramatic lie improvement incidences in the past
I tweeted the video of hole 16 round 2 to Brandel

[Bad9]

As other have now educated you you are not playing by the rules or playing the ball as it lies. Why ask former tour pros, you already said none of them has ever sat down and read the rule book as you yourself haven't.

[Pepperturbo]

No wonder??? Your analogy to tie my scenario to what PR did has NO English 101 relationship. What I said earlier was NOT so much in support of his action just give him the benefit of the doubt because nobody knows what he was thinking at the moment of the infraction. Even though I am a trained clinical professional, I wasn't trained to read minds. You then parallel the two and assume I "support Reeds actions?" LOL

[Pepperturbo]

Why? As I said earlier, this DB is NOT known for it's fact, truth or due diligence, but assumption, bias and opinion. Also, I didn't say who I was calling are the same tour people, you assume they are one in the same. LOL I am done.

[tiderider]

pga pros should take this view ...

 

[Hawkeye77]

So now you know and that should be a good thing in the future. Guys I play with that also couldn’t be bothered with reading the actual rules would still be calling you out on that in a heartbeat.

No harm in more good knowledge!

[KevCarter]

 

He doesn't know yet, but will soon. Mission accomplished. Hopefully this will save him some future embarrassment...

[cardoustie]

It's a lively discussion board Pep, drawing parallels to make a point, all in good fun. Though I am shocked a long term player like yourself would have this misunderstanding of a basic rule

Surely, you can agree Reed is in hot water now as his history (of not understanding the rule in the very least ) is well entrenched

I believe he may not have understood otherwise why do this with a camera hard on you for the shot at hand

[The Giraffe]

Watching all of the Pres Cup hype on GC it's occurred to me that I never remember this much talk prior to the event. Has anyone else considered that this was a scripted attention getter? It happens at the Captains tourney that's more of an exhibition. I can see Tiger, Reed and the other team members conspiring to put this together.

[tungstenplug]

You step on the ground behind your ball in the fairway to improve the lie? Haha what? Your handicap is 2 or 3 higher than you think it is

[Philomathesq]

Well, it makes perfect sense if you believe Patrick Reed has convinced himself of his infallibility. PReed addresses the media as if they are lucky to be talking to him and his arrogance is off the charts. The guy seems to believe he is the greatest golfer to have graced this planet. In his own mind, he can do no wrong. Given the way he conducts himself before the media (e.g. last night he reiterated numerous times he had no intention of moving sand and that he didn't even know he did), it is very clear he has convinced himself of his own righteousness. For someone like that, it is absolutely par for the course (pun intended) to continue to act however they want regardless of the cameras.

Rather than speculate, though, how about you go out to bunker and move as much sand as he did and let me know if you think it is possible to move that much sand without being aware of it. I tried this myself just to see if there is a possibility PReed could have been blissfully ignorant. My conclusion is that there is not a chance in hell he wasn't aware of his actions; the resistance you feel from even a tiny amount of sand as you bring the club back is much greater than that of the air, and if a hack like myself can feel the difference, then I have no doubt a "professional" golfer like PReed can also feel the difference.

[Mikey5e]

Reed is innocent

[Hawkeye77]

Yep, no backsliding now.

 

I'd think the response would be "thanks guys" - not doubling down on what is clearly a rules violation.

 

Instead - "I'm calling my peeps".

[Les Strokes]

ICYMI on GC Monday morning they showed him doing this in 2015 at the same tournament.

He's a pathological liar and can't help himself

[thevaporz]

He def. isn't the only guy doing it. Last year I believe one of the Latin guys did a scrape back in pine straw, maybe it was at the Mexico City tourney. I can't find the story now. It was a different scenario but he scraped back his iron or used his club face to clear "loose impediments" behind his ball which I believe is illegal, you have to use your hands to remove loose impediments only (pine straw, pebbles, debri etc; no dirt or sand).

Is this correct, that you can't use your club at all to clear debri because you'll likely be clearing sand/dirt? Makes sense to me. When in doubt, use your hands only.

[MilkyButterCuts]

One helluva discussion here. Looks like the dormant golf season is almost over.

[KevCarter]

 

15.1 Loose Impedimentsa. Removal of Loose ImpedimentWithout penalty, a player may remove a loose impediment anywhere on or off the course, and may do so in any way (such as by using a hand or foot or a club or other equipment).

 

[thevaporz]

^But you cannot clear sand/dirt, correct? So, using your club or foot (especially golf shoes with spikes) will very likely cause you to also clear sand/dirt from the lie.

[KevCarter]

 

The wording I posted is pretty clear. Here is an interpretation. Does this help?

 

15.1a/1 – Removing a Loose Impediment, Including Assistance from OthersLoose impediments come in many shapes and sizes (such as acorns and large rocks), and the means and methods by which they may be removed are not limited, except that removal must not unreasonably delay play (see Rule 5.6a).

For example, a player may use a towel, hand or hat, or may lift or push a loose impediment for removal. A player is also allowed to seek help in removing loose impediments, such as by asking spectators for assistance in removing a large tree branch.

 

[davep043]

Please, there are many more knowledgeable people than me, and they've already weighed in. You are explicitly allowed to remove or press down loose soil or sand when you are playing from the teeing area (Rule 6.2b(3)). You are also explicitly not allowed to do the same when the ball is in play. (8.1a) Note that 8.1, 3rd bullet point, says you can't do this in "the area of the player's intended swing". That seems to pretty clearly include the ground directly behind the ball.
I do echo a bit of what @Pepperturbo says, I don't automatically accept the word of anyone who posts here. Some are more knowledgeable than others, but I always prefer to read the rules for myself. I appreciate those who will point to a specific rule and section, or will quote the rules. The reason? When I have an issue on the golf course, I can't say that "@LICC from WRX says......" What I can do is to bring up the pertinent rule on my phone app and show it to someone.

[tungstenplug]

 

[Soloman1]

Player is not in a bunker.

 

Added: but it does look like the same situation.

 

It's astounding to me that people with thousands of posts in a golf forum don't know that using the turf or stepping behind a ball on the teeing area is allowed in the rules. And equally astounding that someone not know that stepping on the grass behind the ball through the green is not allowed.

 

This is why so many people are such lousy drivers - they don't the rules of the road and don't have elementary curiosity to learn. How do these people finish school, have jobs, even get dressed in the morning?

[tungstenplug]

Finding out someone is capable of lies always sucks

[Les Strokes]

The whole quote did not appear so here it is:

"Added: but it does look like the same situation. It's astounding to me that people with thousands of posts in a golf forum don't know that using the turf or stepping behind a ball on the teeing area is allowed in the rules. And equally astounding that someone not know that stepping on the grass behind the ball through the green is not allowed.

This is why so many people are such lousy drivers - they don't the rules of the road and don't have elementary curiosity to learn. How do these people finish school, have jobs, even get dressed in the morning?"

I would add that many of these types of people are just plain selfish. That's why there are rules for if you're putting others in danger, or playing golf in a tournament

[LICC]

Loose ImpedimentAny unattached natural object such as:

Stones, loose grass, leaves, branches and sticks,Dead animals

 and animal

 waste,Worms, insects and similar animals

 that can be removed easily, and the mounds or webs they build (such as worm casts and ant hills), andClumps of compacted soil (including aeration plugs).Such natural objects are not loose if they are:

Attached or growing,Solidly embedded in the ground (that is, cannot be picked out easily), orSticking to the ball.Special cases:Sand and Loose Soil are not loose impediments

.Dew, Frost and Water are not loose impediments

.Snow and Natural Ice (other than frost) are either loose impediments

 or, when on the ground, temporary water

, at the player’s option.Spider Webs are loose impediments

 even though they are attached to another object.

[Dpavs]

Given some types I have encountered during my days on this planet... I really do think that if your ego is large enough, you can convince yourself of anything in an attempt to deflect negativity away from yourself.

[Guia]

He is a cheater and a liar.

[CasualLie]

Weird...I thought it was pretty fundamental you can't be stepping behind your ball to press down on the ground as that is absolutely improving your lie. Maybe a bunch of pros do this but I don't recall a specific instance in recent memory; but I am not looking for it either.

Seems like the rules and rulings for waste areas cause a lot of headache. Right Dustin?