Does more offset equal a higher chance to hook

[mozgolf]

Is this not one of the greatest myths in clubfitting?

[Macattack]

It is most likely you just turing the ball over too much.

[Micah J]

Offset does not cause hooks or pulls. It has zero to do with it. It promotes a higher ball flight.

[DaveDC]

So if offset clubs dont help me draw the ball why do they make them? Launch angle... Really? why dont i just use a wedge instead of a 9 if I want higher launch.

Used Nike NDS irons with minimal offset and had a fade on all irons, for past 18 months used Taylormade r7s with heaps of offset and all my irons now draw or slightly pull

[sdandrea]

THIS^^

I've always liked a bit of offset and I use an offset driver. It has never cause me to hook the ball, but when I play clubs with less offset, I do tend to push/fade. I like the higher launch I get from offset.

[nsxguy]

You woke up a 5+ year old thread.

Did you at least read it ? Or did you just read the last post ?

[Thayneil]

offset promotes a slightly later hit

90% of players will have a more left flight on offset clubs.Zero offset earlier hit and more fade

Drivers designed to cure a slice will be both offset and closed face

[Paddy_2_Iron]

I absolutely think they do.  I had some Cobra F7, Sim Max 2 and 400 Pings, hook city....  Finally went to Club Champ Fitter and had me set up with different swing weights,  shafts and a heads with less offset.  The long irons now have a beautiful little fade.  

 

Those game improvement clubs are terrible.  

Edited May 18, 2021 by Paddy_2_Iron

[Thayneil]

On 2/12/2011 at 5:24 AM, hitsalittle said:

[quote name='willard1523' timestamp='1297391359' post='2967426']
if offset gives you more time to square the face it also gives you more time to hold it off and hit a fade.
[/quote]

I won't disagree with your logic, but my experience proves to me that I have a harder time hitting a cut with more offset.

if offset  doesnt reduce faded/increase a draw

 

then why does it exist

[Thayneil]

On 4/1/2014 at 1:57 AM, Micah J said:

Offset does not cause hooks or pulls. It has zero to do with it. It promotes a higher ball flight.

so does extra loft

[Stuart_G]

On 12/11/2019 at 12:03 PM, Thayneil said:

offset promotes a slightly later hit

 

 

For a 80 mph club head speed, 3mm of offset would result in a delay that would only be about 80 microseconds.   Which also means virtually zero change in face-to-path.    And that's even assuming you agree with the theory that one controls the swing by the position of the shaft and not swing the weight we feel at the end of the shaft (the position of the head c.g. - in which case there is no delay).

 

It's the fact that the c.g. is pushed further back that results in slightly more forward bend of the shaft at impact - which means a tiny bit more loft and a tiny bit more face closure.   A small amount of bias but not even close enough to cause a hook.

 

For most, larger changes in ball flight really comes from the visual of the club at address that can subconsciously influence the set-up or the swing in such a way as to change the swing and ball flight.   This could either be adding confidence that it wont slice or make their worst fears of a hook come true.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Fairway14]

On 2/9/2011 at 9:06 AM, south side slugger said:

I have a slight draw on my ball on my normal shot. I usually shoot some where in between 84 and 94 mostly on the lower side of those numbers, mainly because of my putting( BAD, real bad). I am trying to purchase a new set of irons and I fit in the game improvement category. I have been hitting a bunch of irons and it seems to me that the more offset on the club I hit the more likely the chance I have to duck hook or draw. The less offset, the more likely it hit is straight or might even get a little fade if I try.

Is there any relationship between more offset and the likely hood to hook?

 

Ping founder Karsten Solheim believed that offset could help a fader/slicer strike somewhat straighter shots, but he considered the primary benefit of offset to be that (for most players) the offset enabled a bit higher shot trajectory than non offset clubs did.

[Thayneil]

26 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

For a 80 mph club head speed, 3mm of offset would result in a delay that would only be about 80 microseconds.   Which also means virtually zero change in face-to-path.    And that's even assuming you agree with the theory that one controls the swing by the position of the shaft and not swing the weight we feel at the end of the shaft (the position of the head c.g. - in which case there is no delay).

 

It's the fact that the c.g. is pushed further back that results in slightly more forward bend of the shaft at impact - which means a tiny bit more loft and a tiny bit more face closure.   A small amount of bias but not even close enough to cause a hook.

 

For most, larger changes in ball flight really comes from the visual of the club at address that can subconsciously influence the set-up or the swing in such a way as to change the swing and ball flight.   This could either be adding confidence that it wont slice or make their worst fears of a hook come true.

i did say slightly ! and it was 18 months ago also

[Stuart_G]

17 minutes ago, Thayneil said:

i did say slightly ! and it was 18 months ago also

 

I know.  I used it more as an opening to clear the air for all reading than a targeted criticism.

[JCray33]

Kind of older thread I know but I wanna confirm this…having gone from PING i210s which are very offset in the long irons and now playing low offset Callaway TCBs my shot is much much straighter and a soft fade if anything which I LOVE! Offset definitely increases draw bias from my experience. Gotta be why most pros play lower offset irons..they want neutral so they can work it both ways..not biased towards one side.

Edited January 31, 2023 by JCray33

[Denny100]

The logic doesnt make any sense.

 

If the face has "more time to square up" then the face also has more time to stay open.

 

And offset has no effect on swing path, which is the other thing that would be required for curvature.

 

Whatever an individual FEELS like is happening, scientifically the offset isnt the cause.

 

The offset increases launch angle.

[Stuart_G]

38 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

And offset has no effect on swing path, which is the other thing that would be required for curvature.

 

Actually it can if the visual of the head at address causes the player to change his setup or swing - usually sub-consciously.

 

 

 

[Denny100]

38 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Actually it can if the visual of the head at address causes the player to change his setup or swing - usually sub-consciously.

 

 

 

 

Thats a good point and ill retract my comment there, i would agree with you in some cases.

[JCray33]

On 2/1/2023 at 5:13 AM, Denny100 said:

The logic doesnt make any sense.

 

If the face has "more time to square up" then the face also has more time to stay open.

 

And offset has no effect on swing path, which is the other thing that would be required for curvature.

 

Whatever an individual FEELS like is happening, scientifically the offset isnt the cause.

 

The offset increases launch angle.

then why do most pros play irons with low offset…

[Denny100]

12 minutes ago, JCray33 said:

then why do most pros play irons with low offset…

 

Because they dont want extra launch?

 

Because they dont like the look?

 

Because they dont all think the offset is contributing to their fade/draw?

 

Lee Westwood plays offset and is a fader. Adam Scott plays offset and he draws it.

 

Theres many reasons.

 

[ChipNRun]

On 2/9/2011 at 12:03 PM, crazygolfnut said:

I hook the ball and thought I would pass on some information from Tom Wishon that my pro directed me to. For a person that draws the ball, a club with a lot of offset can cause draws to turn into hooks.

 

Circa 2009, most drivers still came with bonded (non-adjustable) hosels. A driver I played for four years was the Calla HyperX Tour, face angle 1* open. That was standard for Pro and Tour model drivers of the era: face angle usually 1* to 2* open. I played a slight draw at the time (closed stance), and the open face prevented my draw from turning into a hook.