Hey better ballers.... focus on the ball vs target?

[Pepperturbo]

I address the ball, look at the ball but my minds focus is on type of shot and where I want the ball to go or land.

[baudi]

when swinging? Neither.

During swing I focus on swing.

[GLF4EVR]

Both Preshot routine is almost all on the target & how to get the ball there. When I am in the stance & first look at the ball my mind is focused of where I want the ball to go. The last thing is ball focused. I focus on the lower inside quarter of the ball. I have found doing this helps me in many ways. First is it keeps my head down thru impact. It also seems to help with keeping my shoulders where they should be on both the backswing & impact. If I am still focused on target when I start the swing, I will have a tendency to have an error. Like head moving ahead of the shot, shoulders rotating too much on the backswing, getting my hips either ahead or behind the swing, and many other of the little things that can make you just out of sync enough to hit a bad to really bad shot.

[GungHoGolf]

Here's a contrarian take on the need to be target-oriented:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1zVD0ZFeUR/

[Obee]

Haven't read this yet, but I LOVE contrarian takes. Really helps to get to the nitty gritty if you understand both sides of an argument.

[b.helts]

"I wanna play some G with my friends. But they won't invite me 'cause I suck"

 

LOL! That is great. I am not sure this is a great idea, but it could help some people, I suppose.

[Barfolomew]

At the range last night w my playin partner whos a par golfer..... tell him bout thread and he says he's a 100% at the ball while swinging..... Whaaaa but you're a good player. He does flush it often but damn if he could just get a little focused on target his accuracy would improve and might save a couple strokes.

 

Told him since you're so used to being focused at the ball your whole life I dont think getting your mind at the target will help in the short term but maybe go OLD SCHOOL and pick a spot on the ground about a foot out or so what ever is comfy to work with so it keeps your mind here not there...

[davep043]

I'm not sure, I bet he's plenty focused on the target while he plans his shot and sets up to the ball. Once you're set up to the ball, lined up properly, ball forward or back in the stance, aligned in the right way for you to start the ball on your intended line and produce the desired shape, once that is done all you have left to do is hit the shot you've selected. You say he flushes it pretty often, don't you think that taking attention away from the ball might lead to more mishits? He's figured out what works for him.

[Pepperturbo]

I don't question not aiming just focus on the hitting the ball, if practiced enough it translates to better impact. Isn't that how many of us learned at the range while building a repeatable swing? But just hitting the ball is NOT the greater goal, playing golf is the greater goal. I need to focus on the target then control the ball through impact so it flies at the target to play golf. One without the other or in the wrong sequence isn't going to get proper result.

Even at the range, if we're practicing correctly we hit at targets. How many times have we heard notable instructors say don't just hit balls, hit to a target. Though @Jakehuttgolf is right about just hit the ball, that IMO is beginner learning not actually how we play good golf.

 

[GolfChannel]

FYI, the song is on Spotify if you search for Jake Hutt.

[oikos1]

Lol. The only time a competitive golfer isn't looking at their target, let alone for every shot for a round, is if the wheels have already come off and they use it as a gimmick to reset. Beginners and hacks, whatever works in the moment.

[Righty to Lefty]

The ball is irrelevant once you have found your intermediate point to get you aligned to your intended start line because if you have your low point of your swing set correctly in front of the ball and the correct depth into the ground then most of the work is done and all that is left is distance control. The ball basically gets in the way of the momentum of your swing headed towards a target. This is where most people make a grave mistake....they swing at the flag.

The plane of the swing is NEVER pointing at the flag (think of the old train tracks reference) because no shot is hit at low point as the low point of the swing is in front of the ball for a ball hit off the ground and some amount behind the ball with the driver depending on tee height thus the momentum of the swing is never going to be directed at the flag, and will be at a tangent angle to the flag which will correlate to where the shoulders are pointed since the club is being held in the hands. A lot of people try to use the line of the feet but this is incorrect and the plane will always follow the shoulder line. Distance control is found by feeling for the distance along this tangent angle, for instance, if you are trying to hit a 40 yard wedge shot and you are a right handed golfer then you will note that when the low point of the swing is set a certain amount in front of the ball and the face is oriented to the target that the shoulder line will be oriented left of the target. The angle of shoulder line is the plane of the swing and is where the momentum of the swing should be sent along. A point along this tangent angle should be picked to determine distance control. Once this point is found that should be the focus as the flag is irrelevant.

The focus should be on feeling for the distance of the shot as all other parameters were taken care of in your setup. This tangent angle will move progressively closer to the flag as the clubs get longer, and because of the build of the club, even though the low point of the swing will still be set the exact same amount in front of the ball. The only club that has the plane right of the flag (okay yes you could tee up a fairway wood and hit up on it also!) will be driver because the objective is to hit up on on driver so the low point must be behind the ball and this will orient the shoulders right of target. If you are focused on the ball then you will lose track of where you are in space and your distance control will suffer. The focus should be on the target, but the target is never the flag.

A visual example of a wedge tangent angle in relation to the flag for a right handed golfer:

Visual representation of a 7 iron tangent angle for a right handed golfer:

Visual representation of a 3 wood for a right handed golfer:

Visual representation of a Driver for a right handed golfer (Notice that the tangent angle is right of the target line because the objective is to hit up on driver. The more you hit up on the ball the more right of target this angle will be to hit the ball down the target line.):

Distance control is found by sending momentum a certain distance along the TANGENT LINE and not the TARGET LINE. Understanding these principals is basically teaching yourself D Plane and ball flight laws in a less scientific way. I say that because you will easily be able to tell if you getting it correct if the ball flies straight along your intended target line. If the ball has any curvature to it then you are not swing along the plane line and you should adjust the club face accordingly. These concepts were the most important thing that I learned when I switched from right to lefty and they greatly sped up my learning curve because I could dissect my own ball flight and I knew what I was trying to achieve before I even hit the shot. Whereas it took me six years to break 90 right handed, it took me 6 months to do it lefty and it was because I understood these concepts.

 

[davep043]

You must mean "focused on their target", because they're definitely NOT looking at their target as they swing. In most cases, they're not looking at their target even when they putt, that's why when Speith did it for a while it made news. But even then, the quote from Tom Watson suggests that at least a few competitive golfers focus on the ball during their swing.

Any time you claim to represent a broad group of people as having a single opinion, you're bound to be wrong.

[nitram]

I've been accused of over-simplifying things a time or two and this subject, to me, is no different. When sizing up and deciding what shot to hit, I am 100% committed to the target. Once I step into the shot and start my PSR, the focus is now 100% on the ball. And it doesn't matter if it's the tee shot, a 2 ft. putt, or anything in between.

[drvrwdge]

I will day with putting I am 100% ball focused with the target in mind. It helps me stay steady over the ball and help me release the toe naturally in my stroke. If my head move it’s an auto-push. I feel in putting there is also much less room for error. You miss your mark and generally you miss the putt.

[oikos1]

Perhaps I should've cited the Jake Hutt video. Jake Hutt said:

"Next time you go play, try hitting every single shot without looking at a single target."

He gave zero context to what he actually meant, but even in your Speith example, Speith certainly looked at his target before he hit the putt. I'm saying every decent golfer looks at their target (sans loss of vision) in some form (preshot, alignment, during the shot) before hitting a shot. He clearly says "try hitting every single shot without looking at a single target". Do you know of any professional, competitive or reasonably decent golfer who hits a shot on the course without looking at a single target?

[GungHoGolf]

Jake expands on the topic at

"One concept I’ve been experimenting with is a concept I call ‘simplifying the target.’ When you face an intimidating hole your brain goes into panic mode. Think of the brain like a computer - the more programs open the slower it functions. Think how easy it is hitting into a net at your nearest PGA store. The target is a flat screen 5 feet in front of you - I would argue most people put a much better move in that environment than on a golf course. While of course there are always exceptions (Bubba) for the average golfer: next time you play try this: Go out and choose a spot 5-10 feet in front of you in line with your target and get the ball starting over that target without ever looking up at the target. Your brain will be much less overloaded with information and you might find this kind of focus increases consistency and quality of strike."

 

[Itsjustagame]

The golf ball is a stationary object which should make this process simpler- but doesn't.

For me hitting golf balls is analogous to hitting a ping pong ball.

Want to "work" the ball make it spin.

Want to hit it to a target in ping pong and your brain is analyzing the target, the shot shape, the shot trajectory etc. etc. while the ball is still in the air. At the moment of impact this "thinking" is done and all you are doing at that moment is seeing the ball. If you take your eyes of it you will miss the ball and your intended shot.

In golf we call the preparation your brain goes through a pre-shot routine. In ping pong it happens so fast it doesn't have a name.

If it works in ping pong it can work with a stationary ball.

Once you have picked a "target" (flag, spot in front of the ball, shot apex all can be targets) and a club, taken the proper stance, grip and alignment I focus just on the ball and trust my mind and my preparation to produce the correct shot.

 

 

[MPStrat]

I would guarantee the opposite of what he guarantees. This is nonsense IMO

[davep043]

Nope, I agree completely. The target is a critical component in every golf shot, even if its not the single most important thing in every player's mind when they're actually swinging. I also agree that the Jake Hutt video is somewhere between a significant over-simplification and just flat wrong. I think that applies to most 30-second instructional videos.

[dmecca2]

Dude, what? I'm no golf swing guru or pro that studies the swing, but I am a plus handicap golfer. Firstly, I can barely make out what you're trying to say. Your images are blank and extremely vague, and I'm not sure how there's a difference between target and flag. Secondly, I don't know how this even relates to the subject of this post. Which is where your mind focuses during a swing, either where you need to hit it or the contact with the ball, not the tangent angles from your shoulders and feet in relation to the flag and target.

 

Lastly, good on you for switching from righty to lefty. That must have been a difficult thing to do, and finding out you're actually better lefty is pretty neat.

[Barfolomew]

Ya you're right but he's striving to be better and play under par more often and win some dang tourneys lol

[Righty to Lefty]

Well then allow me to clarify myself as I remember when I was first being exposed to this information how confused I was until it finally clicked after a few months of working with it. I will also post some important videos that helped me along the way. It may have appeared that I was off topic but hopefully you will see later on that I was actually on topic. My first statement was that " the ball is irrelevant" once you have found your intermediate point and aligned yourself properly. That is because once you are aligned to your expected start line the ball will simply get in the way of the swing motion being sent towards a target (not the flag). So in that regard there is no need to focus on the ball. Next I noted that the focus should be on how much momentum needs to be sent along the target line as this is your distance control and should be the variable that you control on any given shot. But the important thing to note is that this momentum should not be directed at the literal flag, it should be directed at a tangent angle to the flag because the ball is not being struck at low point, it is being struck before low point with clubs hit off the ground, and it is being struck after low point with the driver.

The train track reference that used to always be used back in the day is incorrect because it will only work if you intend to hit the ball at low point, which you should not, if you intend to hit a straight shot, otherwise with an iron you would have to draw the ball and with a driver you would have to fade the ball to find the target line (the flag.) The club face aims the shot and the club's path curves the ball but for a straight flying shot the line of the shoulders will point at different tangent angle due to the build of the club. That is what the graphs that I posted were depicting which was how the tangent angle will be different for each club to produce straight away ball flight. To show shot shape a third line would be required to show the difference between the club face and the club path at impact. The best way to see this for yourself is to go to the range and attempt to hit straight flying shots at the same target with all of your clubs and video yourself. You will see that to accomplish that your shoulder line ( the plane of your swing) will point be the furthest left (for a right handed golfer) of the target with your wedges, and the closest to it with your 3 wood. It will actually move right of the flag to hit up on driver and straight at your target. The ball will look like it is in a different place in your stance due to the build of the club but it will still be in the same relationship to your low point in actuality.

Understanding these angles and sending your momentum to the correct spot is so important as this will create leverage on your shots which will lead to better strikes and more consistent shots. The final piece to the puzzle was that your focus is on a point along the tangent line (shoulder line) and not the target line (flag) to find your distance control. So if you are looking to land a ball at 40 yards your focus should be on how much momentum you need to send down your plane/shoulder line to accomplish that task. The club face will send the ball at the target but the fact the iron shots are stuck before low point means that the plane of the swing cannot be parallel to the target line (train track reference.) Not swinging along your plane line will produce wipey, weak impact.

Here are some videos that really helped me along the way. At first the concepts seemed overwhelming but as I kept watching them it all began to make sense and it sped up my learning curve and improvement tremendously when I switched from righty to lefty. Please don't hesitate to ask further questions if you still aren't clear on something I said:

A visual representation of the different build of each club:

The most basic D Plane (Shoulder line) explanation ever. This video helped my friend who is a +4 handicap understand what I was saying to him after we had a 4 hour "debate!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqCbnj_piwAA more deep explanation of D PLane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp4dsMzWSVIThe most important D Plane video but the most difficult to understand...this video took hours for me to understand but this was the most important video to my golf life along with learning the ball flight laws. Knowing this video and the ball flight laws will allow you to dissect your own shots and lead to rapid improvement when I switched to lefty:

[dmecca2]

Might take me a while to understand but i'll dive in and maybe learn something along the way. Thanks for the explanation

[Righty to Lefty]

Please don't hesitate to ask if you are stuck as the biggest epiphany that I had when switching from right to lefty was that the answers were sitting right there in plain sight. You still have to learn to equate "the math" of things into feels but the good thing is that the math never changes and is sitting there waiting for you everyday but how your body feels is ever changing and will confuse things along the way. At first it seems really overwhelming but after awhile it becomes dead simple and will simply operate in the background.

[chippa13]

When I'm making my swing I'm thinking about what I want the ball to do, not thinking about the ball itself. My mind is result focused.

[nitram]

A sincere thank you to Righty to Lefty for these videos. I have struggled to really comprehend the D-Plane and for years have left it alone as to quote Monte, "it'll make your head explode". And quite honestly, I've made it 40 years without it. But now it makes perfect sense to me as to why Hogan advocated the foot positions illustrated in 5 Lessons and why he said the wedges and short irons up to 6 iron (today's 7) should be hit from an open position. I just knew it worked but now I understand why.

[Trpatterson77]

Pick your club, visualize your shot, and do not swing timid. If the outcome is less than desired, then practice more. I never focus on the ball. Only focus on what you want the ball to do.

[iceman1118]

These are great videos and I for one completely agree with your thoughts. Once you set up CORRECTLY all you do is swing with distance of backswing necessary for the shot and the ball gets in the way. I am a firm believer in no straight lines in the golf swing and I have always used the old Hogan set up from Five Lessons where you are closed with driver and progressively open down to wedges. This was a huge setup changer for me, plus once I throw in some secondary tilt at address like Monte advocates I strike the ball from the inside all day long with pure contact, straight shots and no dreaded early extension which I fought forever.

Here is my question to you.... I go open with wedges down to 7 iron, where I progressively close and I am barely open with the 7. Once I grab my 6 I am barely closed and when I get to driver I am now closed. I always assumed this had something to do with the length of the longer clubs and that is why it worked for me. But you are saying stay open for any shots except a teed up driver which is very interesting. Why is that? I read your first post above a few times but I was wondering if you could expand a bit. Thanks!

[Righty to Lefty]

I will explain further when I have more time but the short quick answer is because you are hitting the shot with a negative angle of attack and no shot is hit at low point, which would mean that your plane would be parallel ( train track reference) to hit a straight shot, so since we agree that every shot hit off the ground will have a negative angle of attack the plane of the swing cannot be right of the target line (flag) even with the three wood. Even with the three wood hit off the ground the AoA is a few degrees down still so the plane of the swing is still left of the target for a right handed golfer to hit the shot with maxim leverage. Focus on your strike and you will notice it feeling and becoming more powerful as you begin to hit shots square to the swing arc and in the proper relationship to your low point.

The low point is actually in the exact same spot in relation to setting your low point but the build of the club makes it look like wedges are back in your stance and woods are forward when in reality the low point is in the same spot a few inches in front of the ball for all shots hit off the ground. And for reference I'm talking about your stock straight shots and that's why you will want to hit all your shots at the same target and note your shoulder line so that you can see the changes for yourself. I will post some videos on how to find the low point as soon as possible. The only shots where your plane will be right of target will be shots that are hit with a positive angle of attack so maybe a teed up fairway wood and your driver. I got crushed at work today but I will put up some videos tomorrow and explain further.