Ventus blue vs ventus black

[xGameOver]

i can’t find anything for swing speed recommendations between the two. I’m 114-117 mph with a mid to quick transition. I’m looking for low-mid flight.

 

[noodle3872]

The swing speed (flex) recommendation would be the same for all three Ventus shafts. The profile of each model is different.

https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/ventus

[WristySwing]

 

The colour combos vary not in their SS recs but the flight and spin window and feel preference. Based on what you posted, the Black is likely the better of the three for you. However, YRMV and you might find the Red actually gives you the lowest launch and spin. I find smoother shafts work best for me while boardy ones (i.e. your typical low/low profiles) tend to make me flip at it and add dynamic loft and thus launch and spin. You are best to try it before you buy it, but I promise you will love them they are awesome shafts!

[IL2AZ]

Have hit the Blue and the Black. The Blue had much more kick below the handle, very active feeling. The Black felt like it was less active but wasn't the Hzrdus Black rebar feel.

[GoGoErky]

Swing speed is only one thing that determines a shaft that fits. One needs to find a weight and launch/spin profile that works for them. Some may need a digger tip section than another at same SS and so.

also shafts aren’t going to dramatically change ones ball flight unless currently playing an ill fitting setup

[shellbmb]

I would second this. I tried the blue and did not like it, but the black is money for me. But I always fit better into the "black" profiles whether it be Atmos, Tensei, etc. I have a quick temp and quick transition so something more stable always helps me. I do think there is something to the Ventus as I tend to find the center more often. This coming from a Kuro Kage XD.

[liveagua]

Who is still fitting shaft flex and profile based on swing speed?

[Darth_Fader]

Has anyone tried the Tour AD TP shaft vs. Ventus Blue or Black? How does it compare? My feeling is that the Blue is likely more similar based on the profiles! Thx in advance

[WristySwing]

Sorry I know this is old but I'm just seeing the thread being rehashed again and noticed this now. I think this needs to still be done. A lot of the old school guys will recommend fitting off of weight, which is definitely the right way to go. However, there is a lot more research coming out lately showing that the proper flex shaft for you (inside a given weight range) will increase club head speed by over 2%, which we all know will lead to more ball speed, all else being equal. Both studies found no statistical difference between shaft flexes when normalized for club head speed, but the more important parameter, was that each player responded better to a certain flex and found that this was completely player dependent. The second 2017 articles jump into this a little bit better and does mention that swing speed did seem to somewhat predict which shaft would cause the increase in speed for the player.
Unfortunately, it is really hard to tease anything further from that as almost every OEM builds shafts based on weight. I haven't seen a shaft that I am aware of that is statically the same weight and torque but just changes CPM. Accra is probably the closest, but the standard seems to be ~8-10g between flexes + a torque decrease + CPM increase. The first 2012 paper probably did it a little bit better as they used the original Aldila NV Green 55 between L-X, which only marginally increases in weight over the spectrum (4g) and stays the same torque. They also had the shafts built by a tour van employee. The second paper just used the stock Ping i25 PWR 65 in R and X, which unfortunately change over 1.5* of torque and increases raw weight by 6g.
At the end of the day though, it does show that "flex" does seem to correlate to a given speed, regardless if that is weight or not. To me as a fitter this is important to take into account as I know the specs of the shafts on my wall and I can find a shaft that matches their needs in a certain brand within a flex window that makes sense for them given their speed input. Somewhat anecdotally, Ian from TXG just discussed yesterday on their Live Q & A that there has been some data from the head GEARS fitters and engineers showing better numbers from stiffer flex shafts regardless of player. Ian countered that (and I truthfully believe this too), that flex is an important thing to pay attention to because it causes a sensation of loading and unloading, which is synonymous with timing and club head awareness. If something is too stiff, I often gets saying they can't feel where it is or that they have to work for it, whereas something that might be a bit soft also causes unawareness but in the sense it feels erratic and timing suffers.
2017_-_Sasho_J_MacKenzie_-_Theinfluenceofgolfshaftstiffnessongripandclubheadk[retrieved_2020-05-01].pdf
SportsBiomechanics (1).pdf

[fpyle3]

Yes, I played the Tour AD TP 6X in a Titlest TS3 head all last season and have played the TP 7X in 3 woods prior, and was just fit into a Ventus Black 6X in a TM SIM. I also have the Ventus Blue 7X in a SIM 3 wood. While I have not hit the 3 shafts back to back to back in the same head, my sense is the AD TP would feel a little closer to the Ventus Blue. To me, both Ventus models feel like they have a stiffer tip, so both spin a little less. However, I feel like launch of the AD TP and Blue are fairly similar. The Ventus Black is a different animal, and is noticeably less active than the Blue as well as just about any Tour AD model I've hit (picture a Tour AD GP, but even less active). The Ventus Black does not feel boardy like a T1100 or anything like that, but to me the feel is quite different than AD TP and Ventus Blue.

[KevCannon]

Have gamed both and am a long time user of ad tp in driver and 3 wood. Launch is very similar and the TP was actually lower spinning in the driver. However Ventus Blue was as advertised, consistently in fairway or first cut and can’t remember blocking many shots to the right (my miss with TP is a push fade). Feel is similar with that familiar kick (not huge DI kick). I haven’t tried Ventus blue in fwy wood.

[KevCannon]

WristySwing - great post btw.

[Darth_Fader]

That’s what I was hoping to hear! Thx for the post. Are you gaming the Ventus blue still now? Did you keep the same weight class from one to the other? Eg 7X to 7X?

[Darth_Fader]

Thx for answering! I was told by my reputable club builder that TP and Ventus blue are similar. Glad to hear it works for you! Was there anything else close during your fitting? Cheers

[KevCannon]

Currently have the Aldila Synergy Green prototype 60tx in driver (epic flash sz 9 degree @ 44.75”). Still have the Fujikura Ventus Blue in 6x and it may end up back in the bag. Have only played 4 times so far this season but have been driving the ball well with the synergy proto/flash sz combo. At the start of most seasons my timing/sequencing isn’t there right away but seem to be getting mid season distances right now, so keeping it bag for now. Not being able to use the range or get on a reliable launch monitor is a huge pain in the butt. If I had a tournament or big money game coming up I think I would put the Ventus in the bag though.

To your other question, yes I kept same weight class: 6x to 6x.

The TP and Ventus Blue feel and play very similar to me. Ventus feeling and playing a bit tighter, TP slightly longer but wider dispersion. Ventus Blue paired with a low spinning head (flash sz) seems to be a very good pairing.

[Darth_Fader]

Thank you! I want to put a 7X in a SIM 10.5 head. Should be sweet.

[liveagua]

It was a rhetorical question.

[BB28403]

Refresh! Anyone tried both of these? The blue is going for hundreds less than the black atm. Would someone who likes boardy shafts (Matrix Black, etc etc) be lost using a Ventus Blue?

[third-times-a-charm]

The blue is going for less than the black because its not the real ventus shaft with velocore - it's the fake taylormade version without the game-changing material in it.

[enfuego]

If both shafts have the velocore then they go for about the same amount. Fujikura made a stock ventus for a few manufacturers without velocore and those blues go for cheaper.

[BB28403]

Oh wow! Thanks for the info. That’s crazy

[GoGoErky]

nothing really game changing in the material. It is just pitch 70ton carbon fiber that runs the full length of the shaft.

The non velocore version doesn’t use the 70t carbon fiber.

[enfuego]

TXG did a video and they found they are slightly different profiles because of the different materials.

I would say it is game changing because it was the first and no one can create the same feel or forgiveness. The main ventus black thread and original ventus thread are more popular than any other shaft thread I've seen during the same time.

[GoGoErky]

It’s not the material but the taper design and tip stiffness that make the ventus what it is. Just like t1100 wasn’t a game changing material.

[enfuego]

If that were the case then every manufacturer could make a shaft that feels like a ventus. If that were the case the stock (cheap) ventus would feel the same as the aftermarket (more expensive) ventus. Taper design and tip stiffness are some of the easiest/cheapest changes to make between shafts. Have you hit the stock ventus and the aftermarket difference? There is a noticeable difference.

[third-times-a-charm]

Ok, fine - at least you revised your initial statement so I will as well. It's not the material itself - but HOW they used the material, where they used it, and the profile they've created with it.

Which the 'made for' shaft has none of. So...

[GoGoErky]

With graphite there are a lot of things that shaft companies can do. None of them use the same material in every piece of a shaft. The ventus with velocore from my reading is they used 1 piece of the 70t carbon fiber down the full length of the shaft. What other materials used in the shaft we don’t know and probably won’t due to it being IP just as we won’t know if it’s the first, last it other layer placed on the mandrel for the same reason.

The TM version doesn’t feel like the velocore one because they removed the 70t carbon fiber for a 40t iirc. This changes the stiffness to start with, they then changes the orientation of the fibers to change the torque. As TXG pointed out in their video comparing the two the TM version is thicker than the velocore verison and makes them different shafts this the different feel. This was done because TM wanted a certain design aspect that would fit lots of golfers and be a less expensive option to include as stock.

Shaft companies have a very detailed process for how they determine a shaft profile they want to create and the characteristics of it. I don’t know if all the shaft companies do it the same but I know PX has a super spreadsheet they use with tons of formulas and such where they plug in different aspects from the type of material, length, orientation. I’ve seen them design 2 shafts on the fly using a golfers feedback and thoughts and create a unique shaft while also modifying the profile of the evenflow blue to suit others feedback on that shaft.

 

[storm319]

A Fujikura representative stated in another thread that the Velocore = 70T pitch fiber the full length of the shaft in one of the bias layers. The bias orientations (+/-45 degrees) primarily impact torque while the 0 degree orientation primarily impacts the bend profile. Yes the difference in material stiffness in the bias layer will result in a slight difference in feel, but it won't be night and day like if you were to compare a Graffaloy Blue vs a Bassara. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of golfers will not be able to discern any difference (especially those with slower swing speeds and earlier releases).

Ultimately the motivation to this approach for both parties is money and the sad thing is that the difference in production cost of one of the big shaft company's flagship aftermarket offering vs the OEM offering is only like $10-15 per part (I know there are other fixed costs added as well as market demand that dictate the price, but premium priced aftermarket shafts are one of the highest margin/lowest value products in the industry). Is the additional $200-300 for the aftermarket version worth it? Probably not for 95% of the golfing population.

[Pepperturbo]

I wouldn't say its SS as much as release, preferred trajectory and feel makes one shaft better than another. And I am not convinced LM performance of any given shaft is always the best choice.
I am really enjoying Ventus 5, Red, stiff, 58g at 44.75" playing length in TS2 9.5 driver (at D4) and and Ventus Red Stiff, 71g, at 42.75" playing length in TS2 4wd 16.5 at C2. However, between Blue and Black, I'd be leaning to Black for the same release I benefit from Red, slightly stiffer butt section.@noodle3872 - I agree regarding SS and the Ventus shaft line.@third-times-a-charm - I partially agree with your "made for" statement. But some of those shafts do have the same materials only configured differently, specs are often slightly different too, such as torque, tip length in Ventus and other aftermarket shafts are 2.5-3.0 length while made for shafts may have a longer 4" tip sections. It depends on who and what head the made for is designed for. I haven't seen any Ventus "made for" shafts.

[third-times-a-charm]

The ventus blue in the SIM are all 'made for'