Reed's Caddy in an "altercation"

[oikos1]

So then you are in direct opposition to the PGA Tour taking action against the Caddie. You seem to believe Caddies have the right to become physical whenever they feel they or their player has had verbal insults cast at them. Wise and informed PGA officials clearly disagree with you.

What doesn't comport is you continue to tell stories about personal interactions that have absolutely zero to do with this altercation, as if to somehow vindicate your own personal struggles with those who have wronged you while also vindicating the caddie of any wrong doing.

It seems quite obvious. The PGA Tour cannot have, and does not want to have, it's professional caddies initiating physical confrontations with it's patrons at PGA tournaments. It's not good for business. That doesn't seem like such a hard concept to understand.

 

[dropkicked]

IRL

[Maton12]

There was no shortage of heckling pretty much all over the course for Reed, plus there were two cops following every group inside the ropes. It would not have been hard for Reed's caddy to point out the guy and the cops to go and have a word with him.

[bscinstnct]

Fan and Reed caddie be like

 

[Philomathesq]

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I'm quite sure you are wholly missing the point @bladehunter and others, including myself, have attempted to make.
It's not that I think the caddie shouldn't be punished; I do think he should face the consequences of his actions. I agree with you that the PGA Tour doesn't want caddies running around physically confronting fans. However, that does not mean that fans can do whatever the hell they want. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Kessler doesn't do anything if the fan didn't scream expletives at him and/or Reed. Kessler did not initiate the situation. The fan doesn't deserve any sympathy or to have his wrongful actions erased simply because someone reacted to his wrongful actions.
Simply put, both Kessler and the fan were in the wrong, but many in this thread only want to condemn Kessler. Did Kessler lose his cool? Absolutely. Was it justified, possibly. Either way, what happened should not have happened, and it would not have happened if the fan had acted like a decent human being; being a fan does not give one the right to hurl insults, personal or not, at a professional athlete.
The other thing we all have to realize is that we weren't there and so we don't know exactly what happened. What we do know: (1) some fan was close enough to Reed/Kessler to be able to hurl a personal insult that was heard by Kessler; (2) Kessler heard "you fucking suck;"; and (3) Kessler jumped off the cart and shoved the fan. We don't know if the fan was drunk (presumably he was), if the fan made a move toward Reed/Kessler, if the fan appeared ready for a fight and/or threatening, or anything else for that matter. It's possible that Kessler jumped off the cart because he thought the fan was going to make a run at Reed. It's possible that the fan only had one beer and his other hand was balled into a fist. It's possible that Kessler had just reached his boiling point and made a bad decision.
Having said that, there is one fact with which we should all be able to agree: anybody that yells "you fucking suck" to another human being is, at least in that moment, a douche.

[bladehunter]

X100^

[bladehunter]

This isn’t caddie vs patron. This is asshole opening his mouth , getting what he asked for.

 

Its like dr Seuss. It can be in a train , on a plane, or with a mouse , in Spain , on the main , or in your house.

Anywhere , anybody. Don’t go around asking for things you’re afraid of getting. My goodness. The last 75 years have brought a lot of great things. But the idea that free speech isn’t fraught with consequences is not one of them.

[oikos1]

Yes, I would rather fans not yell obscenities at professional athletes at sporting events. Or anyone else for that matter. I said earlier I do not condone that behavior. As to my knowledge, I believe fans are removed at times at PGA Tour events for exactly what sparked the confrontation with Reed's caddie. Sometimes the fans are removed at the request of a player or Caddie. I do not know what the official stance of the PGA Tour is in regards to tournament behavior for patrons,, but they certainly should remove fans who are belligerent and obscenely offensive. I imagine there will always be some disagreement as to what exactly that constitutes, but I'm fine with leaving that decision to tournament and law enforcement officials in the moment.

So, here's the question: Did Reed's caddie follow the proper channels to have this fan removed? If he did and the PGA did nothing, than I would see that as extenuating circumstances that might lead to a reduced punishment/fine or total vindication for the caddie. That's the point here. The caddie and player, whether viewed as "fair" or not, have the onus on them, as representatives of the PGA Tour, to follow PGA guidelines/policies. It appears, based on the suspension given, that the PGA Tour does not view physical confrontations with patrons by caddies as an acceptable solution.

 

Edit:

"We have been known for having fun with some good banter, but after hearing several fans in Australia for 3 days some had taken it too far. I had had enough. And this gentleman was one of them. Riding on the cart, guy was about 3 feet from Patrick and said, "you f—ing suck." I got off the cart and shoved him, said a couple things, probably a few expletives. Security came and I got back in the cart and left." -K Karain

Based on his twitter statement, it doesn't appear he followed the proper channels.

By the way, when I play four ball my partner yells "you **** suck" all of the time.

[bladehunter]

The onus actually is more on the tour for not providing a safe working environment. He could actually sue down that line if they punish him. All he needs to do is show he feared for his safety, the daily threats are well documented. Much more frivolous suits have been won.

 

Them allowing this to happen eventually opens them up for liability both ways. Mark my words. Eventually an incident will happen and the tour gets sued from 7 ways for the alcohol sales and unchecked behavior.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Though wasn't it Team Reed that turned from words to physical? Lawsuit would be silly.

[imakaveli]

Can't wait to see caddies assaulting drunks at Whistling Straits

[chigolfer1]

It's almost like you guys have never been to a professional sporting event in your life. Comparing people screaming at professionals at a sporting event to walking down the street in a small town or at your workplace is ludicrous.

[bladehunter]

This ^ is the issue. And I’ll preface this by saying I’m sure you and oikos are great guys. Seriously.

 

But. This type thinking is a learned behavior. What type ? The type that thinks walking into a sporting event gives you license to harass someone. This is not ok behavior from an adult human. Anywhere. We can’t have a fruitful conversation until we agree on that.

 

Neither is attacking the guy , we’ve all said that many times. Many times. But the initial actions are what caused the situation to get where it went. If you cut out the fans behavior , make them behave like any other public place and all is well.

sane people cannot think that behavior should be different just because it’s labeled a sporting event.

[Hawkeye77]

You may be right, but the impression I had from the statements suggested to me the cart was driving by and he had the guy stop the cart so he could then get off and go back to the guy who when they went by, according to the caddie, was about 3 feet away when he said what he said. If they were "riding" as he said and had to stop the cart then he was definitely going back to get into it with the guy with beer in both hands which seems a bit unnecessary and kind of suggests he was wanting to get into it with someone and this guy was going to be it because he'd had enough already. Surprised there isn't anything on video in this day and age. I'm sure if I peed in my backyard at 2 a.m. in total darkness it would be on Facebook in 10 seconds.

Part impression, part taken from what the caddie had to say after, but for sure I'm not claiming to know for sure what happened.

[Pepperturbo]

It didn't happen during play. The altercation happened when they were heading off the property in a golf cart after play ended. Reason PR's caddie was able to jump out. LE is spread pretty thin at those type events and don't typically stay-with each tour player, except for Tiger, as they leave the premises.

PR's caddie said in his statement the guy was belligerent, directing fowel language at PR while holding two beers trying to get in their face, next to the slow moving cart. Sounds like one of those bunny rabbits with a mouth, expecting no one to react. He got off lucky. I been known to get down in the mud with the pigs and not be so polite.

[jgonz69]

Lol everybody acting like PR and his caddie would beat the crap out of any heckler regardless of who they were.

And lol at the cavemen here ready to murder someone for some harmless words.

typical of the internet and keyboard warriors.

Reed and his caddie should’ve just looked at each other and chuckled and said what a douche and moved on and laughed about it later over beers.

And before you jump all over this post, yes the heckler said stupid crap, but to think that’s gives someone a right to lay hands on them, let alone cause mortal harm as some have suggested is ridiculous.

[Maton12]

“I got off the cart and shoved him, said a couple things, probably a few expletives. Security came and I got back in the cart and left. I don’t think there’s one caddie I know that could blame me."

 

Security wasn't far away, so why push the spectator?

Anyway, regardless where it happened, the professional should have kept going...although a few funny lines of "where's your caddy" were heard several times on Sunday as Reed approached the green which led to him playing his best golf of the week

[Hawkeye77]

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"

 

Seriously, what does your having been in a scrape or two, if they were legit, have to do with a Tour caddie and some sloppy drunk? Not seeing the point of bringing it up. Kind of marginalizes your experiences.

[oikos1]

Do you go to sporting events? You're going to have to define your version of "harassing" as harassing the opponent is a part of the game, as is cheering loudly for your team. Been happening forever and coaches and players even encourage it.

I'm not sure how often physical confrontations with caddies occur, but I'm certain that the number of times caddies and players act professionally and continue on about their business far outweighs the number of incidents. You really are devaluing the honor and professionalism of all of those caddies and players who act in the best interests of the PGA Tour.

 

[Golfjack]

Fans seem to think athletes are show animals who should take any abuse you throw at them. It's embarrassing really. Although at team sports events, it's OK to yell to affect free throws or whatever, but in golf you're not supposed to do that. So in many ways golf is usually more reserved in terms of fan heckling. However this being a team event, you can expect more heckling and there was. Reed is a special case thanks to himself. In fact JT also wasn't very friendly to the other team as well. Fans can heckle but when it's not in good taste, you can expect repercussions (either expulsion from the tournament or reactions from players/caddies). Now the caddie reaction clearly had serious repercussions for the caddie, but sometimes it's just so hard to turn the other cheek. It's impossible to know the full story, but I don't blame his caddie, and I do think he deserved the ban from the tournament. I don't think it should be a permanent thing though, unless he does this repeatedly.

[bladehunter]

I’m not talking about cheering. I’m talking about yelling profanity laden insults. Huge cavern in between. .

[Golfjack]

IMO

Acceptable Examples: "yeah!" "Get in the hole" "cheeseburger" "Boo" "that didn't go where you were aiming!" "nice shot (when it went astray)"

Unacceptable Examples: "Your mom sucks xxx!" "F you!" "Go back on the farm! (if anyone yelled this at TIger they'd be banned from life, not just golf lol)" "Fn go to hxll mfer"

Don't let being at a sports event and a couple beers be an excuse to act like a degenerate.

[lowheel]

 

[bladehunter]

Exactly. That’s literally all I’m saying and all we are dealing with here. Lack of very common decency.

[oikos1]

So then define your version of "harassment".

[Ghost of Snead]

If it happens at the Straits, Bethpage 2024 will be a bloodbath.

[bladehunter]

Already have. Any personal insult , any profanity , this isn’t hard.

[dropkicked]

I remember a fan heckling Tie Domi, at a Leafs game one time and he actually fell over the boards, into the penalty box..... got a good face wash and some "love" from Tie...

Mouthpiece made it personal, so it got personal.

 

What if the individual was not PReed, but an LPGA player? -Would the caddie's actions have been more palatable?

[bladehunter]

Yes. Perfect perfect question. Lol. The hypocrisy would be mammoth with that juxtaposition.

[oikos1]

You're right. This shouldn't be hard. Except when the "acceptable" solution to personal insults and profanity is initiating physical confrontations. You also entirely disregard the fact that Reed's caddie violated PGA Tour policies/rules, as if your rules are the ones that should apply, not the ones the players and caddies agreed to when joining the PGA Tour.

I suppose for those with a few remaining sensibilities there is solace to be found in knowing the PGA Tour absolutely does not accept or support your opinion in regards to caddies initiating physical confrontations with patrons. One might want to consider why that is. Or, why not be proactive and write a letter to The PGA Tour advocating for caddie brawls with patrons. You never know, maybe they'll change their stance.