Wedge question?

 scctx5r ·  
scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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So i have been playing a 4 wedge bag for the better part of 4 years now. I recently upgraded to sm7 wedges in 50 54 58. But during testing my SM5 54 out preformed the new sm6 and sm7 in the same loft and bounce. So needless to say my sm5 54 has been a mainstay. Anyone have any idea why the sm5 54 out preformed the newer models? Its not really significantly better but better none the less. Ive also noticed in some WITB pro edition. Alot of guys still have sm5s in their bag. Is it just a comfort thing or is it just really a better preformer? Any thoughts guys. Any and all feedback is much appreciated

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  • druski10druski10 Members  41WRX Points: 29Handicap: +2Posts: 41 Bunkers
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    When you say outperformed what do you mean? In what ways did they out perform the newer ones? P.S. I have noticed this trend as well with WITB

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  • hurley999shurley999s Members  680WRX Points: 325Posts: 680 Golden Tee
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    In addition to the question above, did you confirm weights, lengths, lies, shafts, etc were al identical? It may not be the wedge head, but rather the fit of club.

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  • bevans0222bevans0222 Members  92WRX Points: 33Posts: 92 Fairways
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    I can not tell you why, but my set of SM5's is probably the best set of wedges I've ever owned. The SM6's and SM7's just didn't play as well for me. My SM5's find their way into my bag, whenever I need a confidence boost in my wedges. They are getting very worn out, so they don't stay long.

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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Dec 19, 2019 #5

    Yes my Sm5 had the exact weight swing weight length and same modus shaft and it spins about 800 revs more and i can control the spin and trajectory alot better than i could with either sm6 or sm7. The sm5 is my 3rd sm5 54 ive had to replace due to the grooves wearing out cause i do practice literally every single day. I will say the sm6 was 3 grams heavier in total weight with everything else being the same and the sm7 i tried was .4 of a gram lighter. But the sm7 couldnt control the trajectory as good nor could i get it to launch as high as my sm5. The sm6 was close in workabilty but did not spin as much in the shots i wanted and needed it to.

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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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    And yes all the specs were identical right down to the amount of wraps of tape i use. I find it crazy cause ive tested all my wedges against the newer models on cg2 and the 50 and 58 sm5s got replaced by the sm6 and soon followed by the sm7 but the sm5 54 has been a mainstay it just flat out preforms the newer models with my swing and delivery. And i have noticed several i mean several tour guys carrying the same sm5. It just blew my mind testing and wanted to know if anyone else got the same results as i

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  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  10632WRX Points: 1,655Posts: 10,632 Titanium Tees
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    i dont know your test conditions, but plus 3 grams, or minus 4 grams DOES make a difference when we want to deep dive here. (its MORE than moving from S200 and S400)

    You should pay attention to your impact, in this case both height and side ways on the face.

    In general total weight makes a difference for how deep we goes into the ball (more weight deeper), and more weight also has the potential to move impact against the heel side, lighter against the toe.

    My thinking is simply this 3 wedges with those few grams of difference moved your impact, so pay attention to where your impact is on the one you like compared to the others.

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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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    On the launch monitor strike location was almost identical with all 3 wedges. While the sm7 was 3 grams heavier i can't see that being the reason i would maybe agree if it was a small performance discrepancy but we are talking a averags of 800 to 1k more revs with the sm5. Testing conditions were closed off garage gc2 quad hitting into a hitting screen with projector and temp was about 76° in the garage. But i will say the sm6 was alot closer to the baseline numbers with the sm5 but was still about 4 yards lower peak height and 200 to 375 revs less. Which in the grand scheme of things isnt significant but as i said i can do pretty much what ever shot o want with the sm5 and just couldn't duplicate the numbers with the newer models thought it was super strange. Then i started checking out the pro WITB and soon seen that there arw literally dozens of tour players that carry atleast 1 sm5 in the bag still.

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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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    Oh and the sm6 was only .04 grams lighter the sm7 is 3.6 grams heavier i just weighed them all

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  • hurley999shurley999s Members  680WRX Points: 325Posts: 680 Golden Tee
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    Other thing possibly here is launch monitor reads. How many did you hit with each club? All launch monitors suffer from misreads, especially when it comes to spin indoors (even if metallic dots are used). Key is to hit enough shots, and if all other specs are similar and outliers are accounted for, I would say try to hit them again and see if you see the same thing. Because really any wedges with crisp impact should have similar spin numbers - because the face only means so much. It usually comes down to strike.

    So that said, if you go again and get similar numbers and you've verified that strikes are similar (same spot on face, same dynamic loft, AoA, etc), then it could just be that you react better to the SM5 better for one of the following reasons (and I'm not a Vokey guy so not sure if these are accurate):

    1) Grind better suits you in SM5 - I'll preface by saying grind really only matters for partial/specialty shots. If you're taking a standard 1/2, 3/4/ full swing wedge and make ball first contact, grind shouldn't matter. IF however, you hit ground first (even slightly), the grind can come into play and have an effect.

    2) Looks from address/shape - impossible to capture data, but you may have liked the look better of the SM5 and subconsciously it gave you more confidence to put a better swing on it, and thus better strike.

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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members  9315WRX Points: 1,470Posts: 9,315 Titanium Tees
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    I can't think of a reason, ALL else equal (strike location, shaft, ball, CHS, AoA, etc) that a wedge would spin *800 to 1000* revs more off a dry lie than another wedge. In my experience... even with wedges, strike location is going to be the biggest influence on your launch and spin rates. Yes of course head style, weight, SW, shaft, and all those parameters will be inputs to the ultimate output which is strike... but I have never seen that kind of difference in wedges so similar, and I have an entire thread dedicated to wedge testing.

    Are you using GCQ or TM? If TM, then be extremely careful with indoor testing. I get mis-reads all the time, it's quite annoying. You mentioned loft and bounce were the same, but how was grind the same? Grinds still change the "Effective bounce" which ultimate can change how impact occurs. I also wonder if there are subtle differences between the grinds from SM5 to 6 and 7 (like more camber). If you're not using GCQ or TM then I wouldn't trust the numbers that much.

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  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  10632WRX Points: 1,655Posts: 10,632 Titanium Tees
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    Im not a Vokey man either, but IF Dynamic loft was the same, this heads must have a different COG to be able to change apex by 2 yards, but the OP does admit impact was not exactly the same, and combined, a different COG AND impact location can explain it, but its still a lot. A LOW COG gives higher launch and less spin vs a higher COG, but his old SM5 had both highest apex and spin, but the spin difference cant make the ball to climb another 2 yards, so i think there is lots of small parameters combined. A LM report with the actual numbers might explain it

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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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    The testing took place indoors as i previously stated. On GC2 quad.

    Test parameters:

    20 full shots with each wedge

    20 half swing with each

    20 speciality shots varying of my choice in no particular order. Shots from low chip runner, flop, high chip low chip, hitting more down hitting more flat arched with speed. ( this test was basically for feel and comfort level hitting each shot with the individual models.

    20 full out fastest ball speed i could possibly get with each.

    Where i noticed the better performance was in the full shots, shots that i tried to add more spin and the specialty shot test but as i said that was more of a comfort test.

    All grinds length lie total weight swing weight, loft shaft grip even ferrules were the same because all 3 of the sets of wedges came from vokey.com and like i said the "better" performance was minute but there non the less mainly in the spin but as one of you said sometimes you can get spin misreads which i did but i took those misreads out of the data compilation. I may still have the data in my laptop let me check if i do ill post the numbers.

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  • scctx5rscctx5r Members  75WRX Points: 21Handicap: 6.7Posts: 75 Fairways
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    @Howard Jones i am in agreement with you. And you always got me on info should of just PM you and asked hahaha, howard is the go to for info guys.

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