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Paddy_2_Iron

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For high handicappers, does it really make sense to have more than one?

I'm looking at charts for handicaps 15 - 25 and the 4 hybrid and 5 hybrid generally go the same distance. I'm assuming the same can be said for the 3 as well.

So in short, is it a waste of money to have 2 - 3 hybrids when the data shows for most average hitting hacks they all go relatively the same distance. In fact the chart also showed the 4 iron and 5 iron for average handicappers going the same distance. Does it make sense to carry a 4 iron knowing that information?

In fact I would think having one advancement club is better than multiple ones. Practice it and get good at it. I would think getting comfortable and confident with the one "advancer" would do far more for you game.

Besides you could get fit for that one "advancer" and put money in the shaft etc and really have a tool to use.

In the bag

 

10.5 degree Ping 400 | Stiff Ping Shaft 55 gram

5 - GW F7 Cobra variable | Regular Flex Steel

Titleist Vokey 56 degree F Grind 14 Bounce

Mizuno 60 S 18 Ion Blue 6 Bounce

Ping Harwood 2021 Putter

Ball Pro V1

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I played a 3 and 4 hybrids for years and there was always a distance gap between the two. I fell into a that handicap range when I was playing 2. I don’t play the 4 anymore because I improved and can hit a 4 iron more accurately than the hybrid.

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Driver- Tour Edge EXS 220

4W- Sub 70 949X

4H- Sub 70 949X

Utility- Sub 70 699U 21 degree

Irons- Sub 70 749 5-PW

Wedges - Sub 70 286 50+54 degree

                 Tour Edge 1 out 58 degree

Putter- Cleveland Huntington Beach #11

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I am a 16 HCP 68 year old golfer and several years ago I replaced my 2 thru 6 irons with hybrids. As an older golfer with a slowing swing speed I gained distance and accuracy with every club and they were just so easy for me to hit. I have about a 10 yard difference between each club and can get "in the vicinity" of the green from 140 to 190+ which is fine for me. If I could go back in time I would have switched as soon as more hybrids came available. I started playing golf at age 40 and I could hit a 5 iron was about 170 yards. I believe that I would have been at least 10-15 yards longer with a 5 hybrid. Solid contact with a long iron was always a low % shot but with the hybrids I make solid contact most of the time.

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I don't know what chart you're reading but I think it needs to go in the shredder. Both my current set and my previous set had several hybrids and they went different distances. Currently my 5 goes 170, my 4 goes 180 and my 3 goes 190.

I think a lot of high cappers would do well to replace as many of their irons with hybrids as they can.

I wish I could find a 6h and am considering ditching my 64* for a 2h.

I'm currently playing off 22.

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it's irons that go the same not hybrids

Ping G400 LST 11* Ventus Black TR 5x

Ping G400 3w 15.1* GD AD IZ 5x

Ping G400 7w 19.5* Ventus Red 6x 

Ping G425 4h 22* Blueboard HY 80x

Ping i210 6i & s55 7i - PW Steelfiber 110s

Ping Glide Wrx 49*, 54*, 59*ES, Tour W 64* SF 125s

EvnRoll ER9
 

 

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I replaced a 4i and 5i with a 4h and 5h. Fortunately, the hybrids are adjustable as I weakened both 2 degrees (33 and 26) as I have a 5 wood adjusted to 17 and 7 wood adjusted to 20. This gives me the gaps I need. I'm a mid single digit golfer. I went with the Callaway Big Bertha hybrids. Not a high handicapper. But, found hybrids to be a great addition as they provide a higher trajectory than I could muster out of the 4i and 5i on average.

Driver: Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 w/ Project X Evenflow Green 55 R shaft Fairway woods: Callaway Epic Flash 5 and 7 wood Hybrids: Callaway Big Bertha 4i and 5i Irons: Srixon ZX5 6-AW, Wedges: Cleveland RTX Zipcore 54 and 58 degree Putter: mySpider X

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If you're going to talk about data charts, please share them. Then we can see what you are looking at.

You are addressing the need to do a gap analysis for your bridge clubs - those clubs between your driver and your lowest-numbered iron.

Not sure why the 4H and 5H would go the same distance for all average golfers, assuming they are the same head model and shaft. As others have said, they get distance gaps between the two. For many golfers, the 3H is somewhat difficult to hit.

Now, data does show that 4i and 5i sometimes go the same distance. If this happens, it's a case the golfer doesn't have the clubhead speed, or maybe the cleanness of strike, to maximize the 4i design. Workarounds include replacing 4i with hybrid, or going with a softstepped or lighter shaft in the 4i to improve launch. If the reshaft works, keep it. If not, go with hybrid.

With my new irons (see below), the 4i was good off the tee but iffy off the fairway. So, I refit it with a hybrid shaft. I picked up a few more yards off the tee and can now hit it off a decent fairway lie.

Or, some players will get a more forgiving 4i and 5i from the next friendlier set. When Rogue irons came out, a Callaway fitter suggested I might get a 6i-PW in Rogue Pro and a 4i + 5i in basic Rogue. If you look in our What's In The Bag section, some pros will have a GI 3i and/or 4i and Players irons for the rest of the set.Note: some people find higher lofted FW work better for them than hybrids. Again, what works best...

 

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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I ditched fairway woods and carry 3 hybrids all the time and sometimes I carry a 4th. Best move I ever made.

 

Ping G430 Max 10.5

Ping G430 5&7 Wood

Ping G430 19°,22° Hybrids

Callaway 2007 X-Forged 5-PW/ PXG Gen 6 XP's 7-SW

Ping Glide 58ES Wedge

Ping PLD DS72 / Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.5+ 

Life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving

 

 

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@txgolfer45 You make a great point. Getting the ones that adjust can help create gaps in your set. @ChipNRun I'll try to track down that data set. It essentially compared Irons to Hybrid to Woods. Showing 4, 5 irons go the same distance for 15-20+ handicaps. Hybrids 4, 5 went the same ~distance ( I think 3 hybrid actually had a gap from the 4 if memory serves me correctly).... Again this was averages so no outliers removed, assuming duff, shanks etc.... This was broken out by sex as well. IMHO it would make more sense carrying a 3 and 5 hybrid and foregoing the 4. Just like fairway woods, you almost never see a golfer carrying a 5 wood, 6 wood and 7 wood.
Quantitatively the data shows the hybrids going ~ the same distance. Qualitatively 15+ would best be served using one advancement club in the 200 - 175 range and becoming proficient with that instead of having 3 - 4 hybrids. This piece is just my opinion from what I have witnessed on the course and personal experience.

In the bag

 

10.5 degree Ping 400 | Stiff Ping Shaft 55 gram

5 - GW F7 Cobra variable | Regular Flex Steel

Titleist Vokey 56 degree F Grind 14 Bounce

Mizuno 60 S 18 Ion Blue 6 Bounce

Ping Harwood 2021 Putter

Ball Pro V1

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For senior golfers like myself, hybrids are a no brainer. And for younger golfers that have a tough time with the longer irons I see no reason to not put a couple in the bag.

My senior bag.......

Taylormade Sim Max  9* driver reg
Callaway Rogue 3 & 5 fw woods reg
Callaway Rogue X 4 & 5 hybrids reg
Sub 70 699 pro's 6-pw
Ping Glide 50*, 54* & 58*
Odyssey White Hot 2 ball putter
Sub 70 Staff bag

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Once you learn to look at hybrids as an iron, and hit them as such, they are a great addition to the bag. I love the versatility of my current 3 and 4 hybrid set up. So much so that I would love to get an 18* Callaway Apex hybrid to fill in for the old Mizuno F50 5w I currently use for longer courses. I find it so much easier to choke down and manufacture distances with the hybrids. They are much more effective gap fillers for me.

 

As far as the OP is concerned, I can't say I've ever seen much discussion concerning distance gaps, or lack thereof, when it comes to hybrids. More common when it comes to Driver and 3w, in my experience.

 

The most common complaint with hybrids (again, in my experience) is their "tendency to go left." But...hit them like an iron, they don't go left. YMMV.

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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@Paddy_2_Iron ,
If you could find the data set/chart, that would be great. I'm familiar with research methods, and sometimes broad summary charts can be misleading in their presentation.
Your point about carrying a 3H and 5H is a valid one. I often see single-digit HDCP players carry a 3W, a 2H and 4H, and then jump to 5i.
Also, the particulars of a hybrid model can matter. Loft ID (XR Pro - clubhead bears loft, not 2H, etc.) with tight gaps often implies you don't carry adjacent hybrids.
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/787/GZD8EAJG48ZE.png[/img]Men's 2015 XR Pro Mens Graphite Shaft Hybrid Product Specs (Bonded head, non-adjustable)1H...16*...41.0"
2H...18*...40.5"
3H...20*...40.0"
4H...23*...39.5Cobra FlyZ
2-3H...17-19*...41.25"
3-4H...19-22*...40.5"
4-5H...22-25*...39.75
With the FlyZ, however, you're more likely to get decent yardage separation between adjacent hybrids. With 3H set at 19* and 4H set at 22*, you get 3* loft gaps and 3/4" shaft gaps, rather than {2* + .5"} with XR Pro.

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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I started a thread that sort of addresses this yesterday. It's called High Handicap Bag Set up Discussion. There's a good bit in there about what to work on to improve scores too. I was asking about the top of my bag. I have struggled with my 3 Wood and 3 and 4 Hybrids. Out of those 3 clubs I am most comfortable with my 4 Hybrid likely due to whatever swing flaws I have and my current skill. On A good day I get different distances between both hybrids but in general I hit the 4 better. My hybrids are also are in regular flex shafts. I learned through trying some clubs yesterday that I need a stiff shaft in my hybrid. I am personally thinking I will be dropping my 3 wood for a 5 wood and dropping my current hybrid for a 4 with a stiff shaft. That in theory should give me even enough gapping and simplify the top of my bag. But I am not doing this because there wouldn't be enough differnece between the 2 hybrids I have. If they fit me better and I could hit the 3 well they would probably be fine and go different enough distances.

Cobra LTDX 10.5 Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S

Callaway Rogue ST LS 3HL Mitsubishi Tensei Blue 75S

Taylormade Sim Max 7w Mitsubishi Diamana F Limited 75S

Titleist 818 H1 23* - Fujikura Atmos Tour Spec Black 9S

Callaway Mavrik Pro 6-PW Project X Rifle Tour Flighted 105 6.0

Callaway JAWS MD5 48.10 - TT Dynamic Gold Tour Issue 115

Callaway JAWS Raw 52.10S & 56.12W - TT Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Spinner 115

Callaway Full Toe 60.10 - TT Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Spinner 115

White Hot OG #1

Srixon Z Star/Chrome Soft X

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To the OP, yes, it makes sense to have more than one hybrid. Might not be a 3 and 4--might be a 3 and 5. But if you're starting out, unless you have time to put a lot of practice in, you will be hard-pressed to find many 3, 4, and 5 irons that you can hit better than hybrids. Over time, if you improve, you can always experiment with replacing hybrids with lower irons.

And your question is also appropriate as to whether there is overlap between hybrids. A number of posters insist that each hybrid will have a different distance than it's lower or higher counterpart. That may well reflect their experience, but that doesn't make it true for all golfers and all hybrids. Between differences in shafts, in spin numbers, swing characteristics and other factors, yes, you can have 4 and 5 hybrids go the same distance. How do I know? I carry three hybrids. I'm an old hacker, 13 hi, and I've found 3 and 4 hybrids that are nicely different in length and usually accurate. Finding a 5 was a PITA because a few that I tried were no better than my 6 iron. Similarly, once I had the 5 hybrid that worked, I tried a couple of 6 hybrids--and they were no better than my 7 iron. I know this because I did testing indoors on launch monitors and outdoors using my Arccos system. Now, there are times I use only two hybrids because I can always choke up on the 4 hybrid and approximate the 5. So start with one or two, figure out how those work for you. Then, using your own demoing and testing, or through fitting, figure out if another hybrid or two will help. Don't assume a damn thing about how golf clubs, in your hands, will work, no matter what you read on this site.

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  • 2 weeks later...

That’s a lot of headcovers in the bag! Is there a reason you use so many hybrids?

Ping G430 Max 10K 10.5° driver - Diamana GT 60S

Ping G430 Max 15° #3 fairway - Diamana TB 70S

Ping G430 Max 21° #7 fairway - Diamana TB 80S

Ping G430 Max 26° #5 hybrid - MMTh 90S

Mizuno Pro 243 4-PW irons - MMT 105S

Mizuno T24 Raw 48°-10S wedge - MMT 105S

Mizuno T24 Raw 54°-10S and 60°-06X wedges - MMT Scoring Wedge 105S

Ping PLD Ally Blue 4

Titleist Pro V1x

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Hey noodle, the worst part of my game has always been my iron play, with irons I hit about 5-7 greens a round .... Horrible.... switched to hybrids and now it's 13-14 a round.

My bad shots seem to have a good chance of hitting the green, the only downside was getting used to the size of the heads. Took a wile.

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That's just smart golf. :D

 

The more folks work within their abilities and match clubs to skill/flaws etc...the better the scores get.

 

I remember seeing a short video by McDowell about why are you trying to hit a 2/3 iron, hit a hybrid stupid was the message.

 

I have as second 'fun' set of irons that I carry my 4i in, and I am so attached to my two hybrids (2/4) I need to drop a wedge or the 3w so I can keep my two rinkies in the bag

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For me, my best shots come from the hybrids.

I had a 3 hybrid for 210-220 yds and removed the 4 iron with a 5 hybrid for 190-200 yds.

I hit my 5 iron 180 aprox. and I have no issues.

for me my low point is on the wedges I suffer with thin shots. I start doing better with a 56* which is my everything wedge from 90 yds to 10 yds. and removed the 60* from the bag

 

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In simplest terms, I wouldn't skip a club to just play one that works. Find two that work. I'm currently 14 and carry a 4H and a 4i. Equally important, I can hit them both and my yardage gaps are correct (4i = 205, 4H = 220). While I understand your thought process in just finding one that works, there are so many options out there that you can find two that work (you can hit them well and they are gapped correctly). If a second hybrid isn't your cup of tea (too pricey or just not your preferred setup) look at a game improvement or super game improvement long iron. There are also iron/hybrid crossovers like the Cleveland Launcher HBs that might work. I play 718 AP1s so the 4 iron is easy to hit. If it wasn't, I'd look at replacing with either another hybrid or a different game improvement iron that I could hit well.

Titleist TSR3 - D

Titleist TSR3 - 4W

Titleist T200 - 4i

Titleist T150 - 5-GW

Vokey SM9 - 52º - 56º - 60º

Scotty Cameron Super Select Newport

Titleist Pro V1

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Excellent topic and question.

In general terms I think players of all skill levels, from beginner to Tour pro, would find they shoot the exact same scoring average whether they have 10 clubs in the bag or 14 clubs.

Cleveland TL310 10.5* driver

Cleveland HB Launcher 15* 3-wood

Srixon H65  19* 3 hybrid and 22* 4 hybrid

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

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If you play a lot or practice a lot, long irons is the way to go.....accuracy. If you don’t have much time to practice or play often, hybrids is the way to go as hybrids are more forgiving but not as accurate as irons.

[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]driver - Titleist 915 D3 10.5[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=comic sans ms,cursive]fairway - Ping I25 18 degree 5 wood
hybrid - Ben Hogan VKTR 19 & 23
Irons - Mizuno MP68 3-PW
wedges Mizuno MP-T5 50-58
putter - Ping Sigma G Doon[/font][/size]

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I am a 2 but I did notice that a 17* hybrid didn't go much farther than a 20* hybrid. However played a 23* hybrid for awhile and did have a decent gap from the 20.

I think it is an individual thing.  A few years ago I noticed that there very little difference between my 4 and 5 iron mbs that now I play a more GI 4 iron.

 

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I am a 7 handicapper and use hybrids only. Yes, from 3-PW are all hybrids.

But I use Project X 6.0 steel shafts (125 grams) and make each hybrid have the same loft and club length as the corresponding iron does. The carry distance and distance gap are very good, and they are so easy to hit.

Driver: Taylormade SIM, 8 degrees, VA Composite Drago 75 X-Stiff

3W: Taylormade M5 15 degrees, VA Composite Drago 75 X-Stiff

Hybrids: Titleist 915H (3-6)Project X 6.0 Flighted shafts

Irons: Bridgestone J40 (7-P), Project X 6.0 Flighted shafts

Wedges: Bridgestone J33 (50,56,60), Project X 6.0 Flighted shafts

Putter: Directed Force 2.1 Putter

Ball: Srixon Z Star XV

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