Single Plane Swing. Anyone tried it? Graves Golf/Moe Norman..

[danattherock]

> @SEP1006 said:

> Well just to chime in and give my "who gives a s**t" opinion. I am a healthy and in great physical shape decent ( 8 - 10 hcp ) golfer and swapped to the Dechambeau method a couple of weeks ago. I also added the Jumbomax medium grips ( they are awesome ).

>

> My scores have stayed the same even with the swing change so I am very optimistic on dropping my hcp even lower after some more time with this method. To ME this swing method is so much simpler and easier to repeat. Been watching every video analysis I can and picking up little tidbits of info. Also been watching Kirk Junges You Tube channel as well.

>

> Danattherock - question for you. With me using the Dechambeau method do you think it would be worthwhile for me to pay the subscription for Kirk's website? Been thinking about it anyway but just curious.

 

Absolutely, I would subscribe. For a few months, just to learn from the videos and ensure setup, grip, etc were right. Kirk has lots of videos specific to Bryson's swing, so I suspect many parallels between the two swings. Bryson's is not quite the same however, as I understand it. But I would think Kirk's methods are as close as you will find for public consumption. A few months of subscription is very cheap, watch all the videos, make notes and illustrations, would be my suggestion.

[SEP1006]

Thanks for the input

[efdeel]

Go for single plane....it work for me.

It have some concept why we have to setup like Moe, it ia not just copied it.

If we just copied Moe setup without knowing the concept we will lost somewhere

Have some video of my Mow swing on my youtube channel, open for discussion.

[efdeel]

List of ALL GOLFER that I found in Youtube which INSPIRED BY MOE NORMAN GOLF SWING [updated]

 

[ballpilot]

An addition for the list, about as good as there is, wrote a book too about his time learning under Moe's guidance.

[efdeel]

Thank you. Great addition...I didn't know, his swing really like Moe. Greg Lavern definitely should be no 1 in the list.

I am thinking to buy his book... http://www.amazon.com/dp/099488611X

I really like his short game swing too:

Next time I should add at least 3 golfer more:

Greg Lavern

SinglePlane Discovery

Charles Calhoun

[efdeel]

I try it, I am obsessed to it...

Some practice at my backyard...

[bartalian]

 

Hi All,

 

2020 had been a frustrating year for me (in many ways) but ill focus on golf.  With the reduced opportunities to play my swing started to fall apart. I would play well for 9 holes and then horrible for 9 or the reverse.  I tried to make adjustments I had learned from past lessons but that only made it worse.  My handicap which had been steadily going down went from a 12 up to 15.3 and would have gone higher. I decided to take more lessons but my golf coach lost his job. So I would have to pick a new coach which meant new and different method of teaching and areas to focus on.  This made me think there has to be a better way,

 

I came across Todd Graves https://www.youtube.com/user/toddmoe1   and Graves golf  https://www.youtube.com/user/GravesGolfAcademy   youtube channels and I was really intrigued by the consistent method of teaching.  There is 1 setup, 1 swing that is modeled after Moe Norman.  No matter how tall, how short, how young or old it is all the same. I must have watched every video they had and I started to change my swing from the traditional to a single plane  I had some success but decided if I was going to do this I was going to jump in with both feet.  I put my money where my mouth was and signed up for The Graves Golf 5 day course at the end of August and flew to Oklahoma.

 

I could go into great detail on the 5 days if anyone is interested, but I will say my money was well spent.  What I was most impressed is every step of the swing has a reason. That reason is either simplicity or consistency and in most cases both.  I did struggle to convert but they were able to show me a video of my swing and match it against Moe Normans.  One or two swings later I saw the improvement.  And that may be my favorite part of the single plane swing.  There is 1 model swing and now that I am home I can record my own swing and see what is different and make the adjustment.  Which has already happened.  

 

I think most golfers would benefit from switching to a single plane swing and I highly recommend learning it from Graves Golf.  

 

thanks,

 

Bart

[SEP1006]

Over the past month or so I have gravitated to the "Todd Graves" method with pretty good success. I have been doing great with the DeChambeau method but there is very little instruction on-line by him or his teacher. Just everyone else ( Kirk Junge, Chris Como, etc. ) interpreting and breaking down his swing. 

 

There really isn't a whole lot of difference, still a 1-plane swing. The "staying centered over the left knee" has really helped me go through the ball. Was a little difficult to pick up at first but once I got it I felt it and have been able to repeat it. 

[Dave Low]

I have played golf off and on for 50 years. Best handicap was 9.

For the past 20 years when standing over the ball I had no idea where the ball was going.

While resting up following some surgery I stumbled onto some Moe Norman and Todd Graves videos. By applying some of the essentials of what Moe and Todd demonstrated I have now restored a lot more certainty to where the ball is going. Much more optimistic about my retirement playing golf. Thank you Moe and Todd. 

 

Dave Low

Edited October 21, 2020 by Dave Low
Repositioned a sentence to make it flow better

[New_age99]

I’m committing the entire winter to learning the Graves golf approach. I ordered the single plane trainer as well as the ebook and DVD. 
 

Watching The  Graves brothers and their pupils like Chandler Rusk, Reed Howard , Trent White it has me sold. 
 

Ive been committing to the drills the last two weeks , mirror work, video work and making sure I’m hitting the check points properly. Singing up to get video feedback

from Todd Graves also. 
 

The lateral drop while adding flex to the lead knee as the braking system has already made a huge difference in ball flight and confidence. 
 

Im buying in head first and putting in the work. 

 

[counselor]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:29 AM, Todd Graves said:

 

Hello Major winner,

 

Regarding how the Moe Norman / GGA Single Plane Swing is easier on the back let me provide a bit of detail. The Conventional (two-plane) swing produces and upward pelvis movement of approximately 2 to 3 inches. This is due to the straightening of the lead leg into impact and rotation of the pelvis and torso causing compression and shear. This upward push is a result (caused) because of the address position of the arms hanging below the shoulders at address. When the club moves around the body during the swing it attempts to lift and align with the arms. Space between the body and ball is needed and the body lifts.

 

On the other hand, the Single Plane Swing that I teach offers a simple solution, flex the lead knee into impact and move the pelvis downwards as opposed to upward. When the pelvis moves down, it removes the compression of the spine. To do this however, you will need to address the ball on a Single Plane or the same plane you impact, that way you will be spatially correct to strike the ball. This is a brief synopsis of why the Single Plane swing takes stress off of the back.

 

Regards.

 

Todd Graves

My first foray into this style was the old natural golf. Moved into the GGA products and style, was probably my most consistent, found this site and have been on a roller pastel of various styles and methods.  My biggest problem is being overly flat with an inability to get my weight forward. 

 

I find the GGA swing to feel more comfortable to me, but am not sure about the movement of the hips in the backswing. Does the left/front hip move down and right hip up in the backswing, or do they turn more level?

[SwingBlues]

13 hours ago, counselor said:

My first foray into this style was the old natural golf. Moved into the GGA products and style, was probably my most consistent, found this site and have been on a roller pastel of various styles and methods.  My biggest problem is being overly flat with an inability to get my weight forward. 

 

I find the GGA swing to feel more comfortable to me, but am not sure about the movement of the hips in the backswing. Does the left/front hip move down and right hip up in the backswing, or do they turn more level?

 

Your hips turn more level. The Grave's setup you have spine tilt, if you allow your right hip to go up in the backswing you lose your important tilt. As Todd says, feel like you are bracing on the right hip in your backswing and similarly, brace the left hip on your downswing. Both bracing give you the stability on the lower body - your lower body turns a great deal already to Position 1 as Todd has proven. So after this the upper body basically lifts with the folded trailing right arm as support.

 

Check this out from a month ago:

 

 

A lot of what Todd teaches you can do at home to practice the hitting the positions and FEELING IT by simply holding it to say a count of 10.

 

Also use your phone camera on a tripod to film and make sure you have feedback. I can't believe how bad I am on video but it looks so good from the pilot's view. Sometimes, the backswing looks short but it's perfect and where my mistakes is to overswing the backswing and let the right trail arm jut out & that kills me especially with the driver. It's just the old swing haunting me so it needs time to adjust - hence feedback on video is important.

 

Hope this helps. .. 😊

 

 

 

[TheWedgeWizard]

On 7/28/2018 at 9:20 AM, AlexCzervic said:

Back issues?

 

Stop leading with your pivot and it will react naturally.. Less effort, less pain, more distance.

 

AC

Not leading with your pivot and leading with your upper body is a great way to come over the top, slice the ball and early extend leading to back issues. The golf swing needs some separation from the lower and upper body to be any good and if you want to be a good player, your definitely going to lead with your lower body. Leading with the upper is basically what every crappy am who slices the ball 180yrds with a driver does. 

[ewaldbeukes]

On 10/22/2018 at 1:29 PM, Todd Graves said:

 

Hello Major winner,

 

Regarding how the Moe Norman / GGA Single Plane Swing is easier on the back let me provide a bit of detail. The Conventional (two-plane) swing produces and upward pelvis movement of approximately 2 to 3 inches. This is due to the straightening of the lead leg into impact and rotation of the pelvis and torso causing compression and shear. This upward push is a result (caused) because of the address position of the arms hanging below the shoulders at address. When the club moves around the body during the swing it attempts to lift and align with the arms. Space between the body and ball is needed and the body lifts.

 

On the other hand, the Single Plane Swing that I teach offers a simple solution, flex the lead knee into impact and move the pelvis downwards as opposed to upward. When the pelvis moves down, it removes the compression of the spine. To do this however, you will need to address the ball on a Single Plane or the same plane you impact, that way you will be spatially correct to strike the ball. This is a brief synopsis of why the Single Plane swing takes stress off of the back.

 

Regards.

 

Todd Graves

Dear OP,

 

I wanted to share my personal experience with you.

 

Over the past 18 months, I have endured debilitating back pain, to the extent that I was scheduled for a spinal fusion due to an L4, L5 herniated disc. At that time, I was deeply committed to finding solutions to get back to playing golf without pain, even though such information was hard to come by online. I delved into peer-reviewed medical research, examining every detail on how to reduce strain on the back and neck. If you're interested, I posted a summary in one of the forum threads where some of us with fusions and similar issues were discussing this matter. I'd be glad to share it with you via DM.

 

During this period, I adopted a more upright posture in my address and managed to play golf, albeit erratically and rarely without pain. Then, someone suggested I try Graves golf. Although I hadn't heard of it before, I decided to watch a video and became intrigued, but I didn't pay it much attention initially. However, a few weeks later, I went to the range and started experimenting with it.

 

Now, approximately 7 months later, my swing speed has returned to 115-120mph (I'm in my mid-30s), and I am approaching a scratch handicap once again. I may not adhere completely to the Moe Norman / Graves golf single plane model, but I can confirm Todd's remarks above. The aspects I addressed were the setup in a single plane, swinging on a single plane, and hitting into a bent left leg. Not raising my pelvis at impact has single-handedly saved my back from surgical intervention. I'm astonished that more instructors haven't caught on to this method for saving backs.

 

Admittedly, forward flexion with a bad back can always cause discomfort (ironically, the Graves setup helped alleviate my pain over time, though not immediately). Currently, I am a bit more upright than the model (more like Bryson DeChambeau), but it still works exceptionally well for me. It has also proven effective for a few others I've spoken to. Personally, I found the video content from both Todd and Tim to be highly beneficial, and I have even considered joining their coaching program (hopefully in the latter part of this year or early next, depending on my cash flow as the dollar is strong against my home currency). I practice much less now since the swing is much simpler, and this reduced practice has also helped my back recover.

 

I'm not advocating that everyone with a bad back follows the Graves golf program, but there is tremendous value in the technique described by Todd and their videos. I would recommend giving it a try over some time to see if it can work for you. Experiment with a colored golf ball, try chipping with a wide-open stance, and explore different approaches to find what works best for you. 

 

Good luck!

Edited July 28, 2023 by ewaldbeukes
Typo

[nlk10010]

On 3/3/2023 at 12:19 PM, TheWedgeWizard said:

-snip-

Leading with the upper is basically what every crappy am who slices the ball 180yrds with a driver does. 

 180 yards? Hmmm, maybe I ought to try leading with my upper body (I aspire to be a crappy am). 🙂 

 

Todd Graves does stress the importance of separation and has several drills to practice it. It's just that with his swing the degree of pivot is controlled by the flexed lead knee. So separation essentially involves flexing the knee and pushing into the pivot on the way up in the backswing. Then you extend the pivot by rotating the upper body in the downswing.

 

Look, I went to one of his Schools two Summers ago because I keep being drawn back to this approach. Not because it's easier to learn or produces better results than any other, it takes a lot of work to ingrain motor patterns for ANY swing and this one is no exception. It's just that for me Graves' approach of tightly structured positions coupled with what seem logical explanations is very appealing. I don't believe anything he says runs counter to conventional, accepted swing theory (e.g. Monte, John Dunigan, or my new favorite Chris Tyler). Graves is not selling snake oil (IMO). Yes, he engages in a wee bit of marketing/hyperbole when he invokes Moe's name but the essential features of the swing (save the flexed lead knee) are more or less conventional. Easier on the back? Perhaps. All I know is I have a terrible back and I don't have an issue with pain when I use this swing but, then again, my condition may make it more difficult to execute the swing properly.

 

If you're looking for a methodology that is a snap to learn and produces better results right off the bat, then forget it. But, if the idea of this swing appeals to you and makes it easier for you to practice your positions and understand what you need to do, or if your back is giving you trouble, then it's worth a look. My philosophy is that there are numerous swings that potentially all yield the same, workable result, but they ALL take a commitment. 

[teddyironboy]

I don't think there is anything magical about this swing. He shallowed it out well and pulled hard with his left side which gave him a passive face, takes the flippy right hand out of the swing. It's very hard to flip the club and hit a hook biomechanically if you do those 2 things. He then practiced much more than anyone, plus with likely autism, contributed to him being a machine. I also think the way he practiced too, just hitting ball after ball quickly, helped him still be a machine in front of crowds and in tournaments - because the motion was unconscious. But that kind of practice certainly started with a lot slower and more deliberate practice and drills he came up with for himself.

 

I don't believe that it matters staying on one plane because the club being under the plane that the hands are spinning around at makes the clubface more stable (shallow). Especially on the backswing...that doesn't matter at all.