What is the one rule you wish could be changed

[davep043]

You said it earlier, things go from the general to the specifics and exceptions, and the specifics and exceptions refine the general.. The General is "play by the rules and play honestly". The specific is "we can't define this appropriately, so it is completely up to you, there are no other restrictions". I see no contradiction at all when I choose to TREAT my ball as not playable, and pay a stroke to take relief.

This is a reason that "abnormal condition" or " immovable obstruction" is so clearly defined. They want "free relief" to be applied in very limited situations. They chose NOT to define "unplayable", because there's no way to do it in a way that will address all situations. Then they chose to make the penalty great enough to discourage a golfer from using relief for frivolous reasons.

[Sawgrass]

you Post:

“Playable:

Dictionary.com: 1. capable of or suitable for being played. 2. easy or pleasurable to play. I notice you removed the numericals showing that these are two separate definitions. The second definition is not in context to striking a golf ball nor is it consistent with the history of Rule 19.”

 

 

You have no standing to exclude the second definition on the basis of context, and even so, definition 1 works just fine. “Suitable” to play is all we need and the player is the only person who can judge the suitability/playability of his ball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sawgrass]

What’s the definition of, “insufferable?”

[CaseyC]

If one refuses to check directly with USGA or R&A about a rules interpretation, can their "opinion" be considered "ignorant"?

[HatsForBats]

There is no dishonesty. The player of that ball is the sole judge and jury. As long as they want to, which they obviously do if they are willing to take a penalty for it, that is all that is required.

 

LICC to player: 'Come on, you could probably play that shot'

Player: 'Agreed. I absolutely could play that shot but I don't want to because {enter any reason here}'

 

Honest and permissible.

[sui generis]

You know who's being dishonest here? You are. You knowingly spread lies about the Rules.

People here who know their onions have explained till they're blue in the face. You've been given the means via the USGA Rules Help to confirm their advice.

But, no, you continue to promulgate your gibberish.

[Newby]

Rule 19 has the unqualified statement "A player may take unplayable ball relief ...." It does not say 'if he honestly believes ..."

 

It has been a principle of both the USGA and R&A that they follow the legal practice "if two laws govern the same situation, a law governing a specific subject matter overrides a law governing general matters".

This evidenced in many rules and past decisions made by the RBs.

 

But please check their policy with the USGA.

 

 

[LICC]

This is a Utah Golf Association Rule 1 Q&A released in 2018. Word-for-word (bolding was in the original Q&A):

"2. When a player has breached a Rule and that Rule allows them to play a ball from a different place than where their original ball lies (e.g. deciding to treat their ball as unplayable) the penalty is one stroke.

True or False?

Answer: True.

Rule Reference – Rule 1.3c(2) Note: The one stroke penalty also applies in both match play and stroke play where the potential advantage from a breach is minor."

I feel somewhat better that at least in the State of Utah, honesty prevails.

[KevCarter]

Why not take Sui's advice and end this nonsense.

[LICC]

I don't know why the honesty part of this is so hard for you. Yes, a player can HONESTLY judge a ball to be unsuitable for play.

[LICC]

When you say: Absolutely I can play that ball, but I don't like having to pitch out so I'm going to back it up because I like the line from 20 feet back better (oh and by the way I can change my ball now too), that is not an honest judgement of the ball being unplayable.

[Sawgrass]

Wrong. Call the USGA.

[Newby]

2. When a player has breached a Rule and that Rule allows them to play a ball from a different place than where their original ball lies (e.g. deciding to treat their ball as unplayable) the penalty is one stroke.

The penalty is for the breached rule. Nothing to do with the ball previously being unplayable. The rule reference is concerned with penalty levels only. I suggest you read the question and answer more carefully.

[LICC]

Exact wording please (bold added): A player is the only person who may decide to treat his or her ball as unplayable ...

Where in that does the requirement for honesty get overridden?

[rogolf]

Something is quite odd about this post (Utah Golf Association). The poster says it was released in 2018, yet the Rules reference is from the 2019 Rules. The Rules of 2018 were abandoned on Jan 1, 2019 when then new Rules came into effect.

[Newby]

Again, the statement is unqualified.

[davep043]

Its a very odd question. What does a player do to breach the Unplayable Ball rule?
We should note that @LICC keeps referring to 1.2, but the Q&A he cites is based on 1.3(2), Levels of Penalties. That actually makes the question logical:"One-Stroke Penalty. This penalty applies in both match play and stroke play
 under certain Rules where either (a) the potential advantage from a breach is minor or (b) a player takes penalty relief by playing a ball from a different place than where the original ball lies."
This indicates to me that the "normal penalty" for any infraction that allows you to drop the ball in a new location is one stroke. A one stroke penalty also applies where the potential advantage gained by the breach is minor. This contrasts with other more serious breaches, where the penalty is two strokes (or loss of hole), or even disqualification.. This specific rule has nothing to do with honesty.

[HatsForBats]

It absolutely is honest because even if a player feels they can play the ball they have the option to TREAT it as unplayable. At which point it becomes an unplayable ball. They are the sole judge and jury. Perfectly honest and legal.

19.1 Player May Decide to Take Unplayable Ball Relief Anywhere Except Penalty Area

A player is the only person who may decide to treat his or her ball as unplayable

[LICC]

I’m not sure you know what decide to treat means.

[davep043]

"Decide to treat" means playing the ball from one of 3 specified locations, and adding one penalty stroke. But I AM certain that YOUR definition of "unplayable" is different than the USGA's definition, and theirs is the one that matters. You've also demonstrated that you don't know the difference between Rule 1.2 and Rule 1.3

[HatsForBats]

Treat:

regard {something} as being of a {specified} nature with implications for one's actions concerning {it}.

 

A player may regard {their own golf ball} as being of an {unplayable} nature with implications for that players actions concerning {that ball}.

 

 

[Londoner]

I don't think it's fair on the poor folks at USGA to direct LICC to them. Some poor so & so is going to have him on the phone for hours (or days).

[KevCarter]

LOL

I don't think the USGA has to worry about a call from him. He has no interest in finding the truth. At this stage it would squash the giant ego...

The new bright light to guide the rules forum out of the darkness... ???

[LICC]

And you keep ignoring that Rule 1.2 requires honesty. So deciding to treat a playable ball as unplayable is honest to you. You are submitting that the USGA advocates dishonest decisions in its rules, and also has an entirely unnecessary and duplicative rule (Rule 18.1) because ... just because for no reason.

[HatsForBats]

Full Circle - https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/19283020/#Comment_19283020https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/19283020/#Comment_19283020

[LICC]

Explain the purpose of Rule 18.1 if Rule 19 can apply to any ball (outside a PA) without any limits.

[rogolf]

Rule 19 cannot apply to ball that is out of bounds.

BTW, most posters here understand your modus operandi - to post gibberish and then requrest/expect others to provide scenarios (which you disregard), explanations (which you disregard and post more gibberish) and suggestions (which you disregard).

Since we know all that, we can demonstrate our knowledge and just disregard your posts.

[Sawgrass]

Call the USGA, you won't accept any explanation from anyone here anyway.

[LICC]

OB is covered in 18.2, not 18.1

[HatsForBats]