Jump to content

What is the one rule you wish could be changed


Recommended Posts

Nope. Keep reading:

"18.1 Relief Under Penalty of Stroke and Distance Allowed at Any TimeAt any time, a player may take stroke-and-distance relief by adding one penalty stroke and playing the original ball or another ball from where the previous stroke was made (see Rule 14.6).

The player always has this stroke-and-distance relief option:

No matter where the player’s ball is on the course, andEven when a Rule requires the player to take relief in a certain way or to play a ball from a certain place."And you most certainly do take the position that Rule 19 has no limit, other than PA and OB. You said so. You said the player has sole power to treat the ball as unplayable no matter what. Therefore, other than PA or OB, a player has no limit to the ability to take S&D relief under Rule 19 according to you. Which renders 18.1 as stupidly irrelevant. So either the USGA rulemakers are stupid, or your view is incorrect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One might similarly ask "where in the rules is "unplayable" defined". The lack of a specific definition, along with the specific wording of the rules, leaves the definition up to the individual player. And the fact that there is a significant penalty (every stroke lost is significant) associated with unplayable ball relief brings me to the very logical conclusion that a player who takes relief has honestly determined that the ball is lying in a sufficiently difficult position that such relief is appropriate. If it were free relief, that conclusion might be different.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does your question have to do with what I wrote? Doesn't matter, the Rules specifically allow the player to make that honest judgement, and the penalty stroke insures that the decision isn't taken lightly. Nobody but a fool voluntarily gives up a stroke unless there's a good reason for it.

But you've never told us where within the Rules of Golf that the term "unplayable" is defined. Certainly you have your definition, but the Rules specifically give me the authority to use my own definition, with no limits at all. The Rules have said, in effect, that as long as I accept my stroke penalty, I'm being honest.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said it is not logical for anyone to ever not be honest in deciding a ball is unplayable. I gave you situation where it would.

Tufts said it is expected that the reader know it is the character of the lie that makes a ball unplayable.

Taking your approach, why not just call Rule 19 the Back-on-Line Relief Rule, similar to how 18.1 is the S&D relief rule? Take the ten times the word "unplayable" is in the rule out? Explain how given your approach that Rule 18.1 is not rendered unnecessary. This all only makes sense if you think the USGA rulemakers are stupid in how they draft the rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18.1 defines a procedure that is allowed at any time. That's what it does. Its existence doesn't render any other rule irrelevant, especially considering those rules allows for other options of relief in addition to stroke and distance. And since it form the basis for 18.2, another rule isn't making it irrelevant.

run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. You have it backwards. Your view has Rule 19 rendering Rule 18.1 irrelevant.
As I said to @davep043 , taking your approach, why not just call Rule 19 the Back-on-Line Relief Rule, similar to how 18.1 is the S&D relief rule? Take the ten times the word "unplayable" is in the rule out?
Explain how given your approach that Rule 18.1 is not rendered unnecessary. This all only makes sense if you think the USGA rulemakers are stupid in how they draft the rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@LICC “Explain how given your approach that Rule 18.1 is not rendered unnecessary. This all only makes sense if you think the USGA rulemakers are stupid in how they draft the rules.”
Rule 19 is only invoked for a ball that has been found. 18.1 can be invoked at any time...including a ball you haven’t looked for (meaning, that ball is not considered to be lost yet).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no interpretation of 19 that makes 18 useless. Rule 19 allows for 3 different relief options, one of which is defined in 18.1.

 

You're beat on his one. Move on.

  • Like 1

run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Tufts said it is expected that the reader know it is the character of the lie that makes a ball unplayable." Did Tufts define this? Do the Rules define this? Has anyone besides you defined this?

Tufts said (correctly) that the evaluation and eventual decision to treat a ball as unplayable was completely up to the discretion of the player. He says, accurately, that its impractical to define the conditions that make it unplayable. Tufts says the definition of unplayable is a matter of opinion, that the player may declare the ball unplayable regardless of the actual nature of the lie. Tufts also said that it was important when deciding what penalty applied to unplayable lie relief that the penalty MUST be enough to ensure that a player only take relief when appropriate. There is not a single word in that section that suggests any decision the player arrives at is in any way dishonest.

And your example, where its "easier" to drop a ball back rather than play it backwards, you've essentially said that there is some kind of difficulty in playing the ball. If that difficulty is significant enough to cause the player to accept the penalty of a shot, he's honestly determined that it is, in his opinion, unplayable. Completely within the rules, and completely in accordance with Tufts' guidance.

And I see no problem at all with stating something twice, in different sections of the rules. This makes it a whole lot easier to find.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not them. Just you.

 

Rule 14.6 guides you on how to play from where the previous stroke was made. This can happen in cases other than in stroke and distance. The Purpose heading of 18 defines the Stroke and Distance penalty, 18.1 defines a procedure that is allowed at any time. Neither of which are rendered irrelevant by another rule. The burden of proof is on you.

  • Like 1

run of the mill driver with stock shaft
a couple of outdated hybrids
shovel-ier shovels
wedges from same shovel company
some putter with a dead insert and
a hideous grip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which one do we eliminate? 17.1d(a) says you can use stroke and distance relief for a ball in a penalty area. 18.1 says you can take stroke and distance relief any time, AND provides some clarifications and limitations. 19.1 says you can take unplayable lie relief anywhere, and 18.2 says one way of taking unplayable lie relief is using stroke and distance. I think its better to leave all three in place. That way, no matter whether our ball is in a penalty area, lost, OB, or in a difficult spot, we'll always find the stroke and distance option described in the section of the rules we look at. Completely logical to me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can say without reservation that you, LICC, are the most clueless person with respect to the Rules of Golf that I have ever encountered. (I suspect I speak for others here, also.) Here's an idea for you. Exile yourself from the Rules folder until you speak with the USGA and are satisfied with their positions. When you've done that, come back and see us.

  • Like 1

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play competitive golf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 7 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...