What is the one rule you wish could be changed

1515254565773
73

Comments

  • SawgrassSawgrass Members  15868WRX Points: 1,150Posts: 15,868 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1592
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • HatsForBatsHatsForBats Members  2002WRX Points: 279Handicap: 7Posts: 2,002 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #1593

    I did not say rule 19 pertains to everything else, you did. Rules 18.x pertain only to a Ball potentially Lost or Out of Bounds


    Purpose of Rule: Rule 18 covers taking relief under penalty of stroke and distance. When your ball is lost outside a penalty area or comes to rest out of bounds

    Posted:
  • NewbyNewby Members  7760WRX Points: 626Posts: 7,760 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1594
    Posted:
  • davep043davep043 Members  4964WRX Points: 2,178Handicap: 6.3Posts: 4,964 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1595

    One might similarly ask "where in the rules is "unplayable" defined". The lack of a specific definition, along with the specific wording of the rules, leaves the definition up to the individual player. And the fact that there is a significant penalty (every stroke lost is significant) associated with unplayable ball relief brings me to the very logical conclusion that a player who takes relief has honestly determined that the ball is lying in a sufficiently difficult position that such relief is appropriate. If it were free relief, that conclusion might be different.

    Posted:

    Home is Reston, Virgina, with regular visits to Southern Pines, NC

  • davep043davep043 Members  4964WRX Points: 2,178Handicap: 6.3Posts: 4,964 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1596

    What does your question have to do with what I wrote? Doesn't matter, the Rules specifically allow the player to make that honest judgement, and the penalty stroke insures that the decision isn't taken lightly. Nobody but a fool voluntarily gives up a stroke unless there's a good reason for it.

    But you've never told us where within the Rules of Golf that the term "unplayable" is defined. Certainly you have your definition, but the Rules specifically give me the authority to use my own definition, with no limits at all. The Rules have said, in effect, that as long as I accept my stroke penalty, I'm being honest.

    Posted:

    Home is Reston, Virgina, with regular visits to Southern Pines, NC

  • NewbyNewby Members  7760WRX Points: 626Posts: 7,760 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1597

    But the former is specific to a situation, the latter applies generally.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members  18116WRX Points: 1,051Posts: 18,116 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 6, 2020 10:55pm #1599

    18.1 defines a procedure that is allowed at any time. That's what it does. Its existence doesn't render any other rule irrelevant, especially considering those rules allows for other options of relief in addition to stroke and distance. And since it form the basis for 18.2, another rule isn't making it irrelevant.

    Posted:
    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 608Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 6, 2020 11:00pm #1600

    @LICC “Explain how given your approach that Rule 18.1 is not rendered unnecessary. This all only makes sense if you think the USGA rulemakers are stupid in how they draft the rules.”

    Rule 19 is only invoked for a ball that has been found. 18.1 can be invoked at any time...including a ball you haven’t looked for (meaning, that ball is not considered to be lost yet).

    Posted:
  • FadeFade Members  1338WRX Points: 245Posts: 1,338 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #1601
    Posted:
  • sdandreasdandrea Steve Members  2656WRX Points: 523Handicap: 11Posts: 2,656 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1602

    Motion is seconded. Won't do any good, tho. He's going to die on that hill.

    Posted:
    • Tommy Armor Atomic 10.5*
    • Adams Speedline 5w
    • Callaway BB 7h
    • Snake Eyes 600C 8- SW*
    • Odyssey VLine
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 608Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1603

    The ball I described is NOT lost.

    A ball can be not lost and not found at the same time.

    Posted:
  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members  18116WRX Points: 1,051Posts: 18,116 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1604

    There is no interpretation of 19 that makes 18 useless. Rule 19 allows for 3 different relief options, one of which is defined in 18.1.


    You're beat on his one. Move on.

    Posted:
    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
  • HitEmTrueHitEmTrue North TexasMembers  6841WRX Points: 608Posts: 6,841 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1605

    If the player doesn’t announce a provisional, he has put a ball into play under 18.1. There are situations where the person would do this on purpose. I know I have.

    Posted:
  • davep043davep043 Members  4964WRX Points: 2,178Handicap: 6.3Posts: 4,964 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1606

    "Tufts said it is expected that the reader know it is the character of the lie that makes a ball unplayable." Did Tufts define this? Do the Rules define this? Has anyone besides you defined this?

    Tufts said (correctly) that the evaluation and eventual decision to treat a ball as unplayable was completely up to the discretion of the player. He says, accurately, that its impractical to define the conditions that make it unplayable. Tufts says the definition of unplayable is a matter of opinion, that the player may declare the ball unplayable regardless of the actual nature of the lie. Tufts also said that it was important when deciding what penalty applied to unplayable lie relief that the penalty MUST be enough to ensure that a player only take relief when appropriate. There is not a single word in that section that suggests any decision the player arrives at is in any way dishonest.

    And your example, where its "easier" to drop a ball back rather than play it backwards, you've essentially said that there is some kind of difficulty in playing the ball. If that difficulty is significant enough to cause the player to accept the penalty of a shot, he's honestly determined that it is, in his opinion, unplayable. Completely within the rules, and completely in accordance with Tufts' guidance.

    And I see no problem at all with stating something twice, in different sections of the rules. This makes it a whole lot easier to find.

    Posted:

    Home is Reston, Virgina, with regular visits to Southern Pines, NC

  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members  18116WRX Points: 1,051Posts: 18,116 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 6, 2020 11:31pm #1607

    Not them. Just you.


    Rule 14.6 guides you on how to play from where the previous stroke was made. This can happen in cases other than in stroke and distance. The Purpose heading of 18 defines the Stroke and Distance penalty, 18.1 defines a procedure that is allowed at any time. Neither of which are rendered irrelevant by another rule. The burden of proof is on you.

    Posted:
    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • davep043davep043 Members  4964WRX Points: 2,178Handicap: 6.3Posts: 4,964 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1608

    Which one do we eliminate? 17.1d(a) says you can use stroke and distance relief for a ball in a penalty area. 18.1 says you can take stroke and distance relief any time, AND provides some clarifications and limitations. 19.1 says you can take unplayable lie relief anywhere, and 18.2 says one way of taking unplayable lie relief is using stroke and distance. I think its better to leave all three in place. That way, no matter whether our ball is in a penalty area, lost, OB, or in a difficult spot, we'll always find the stroke and distance option described in the section of the rules we look at. Completely logical to me.

    Posted:

    Home is Reston, Virgina, with regular visits to Southern Pines, NC

  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members  18116WRX Points: 1,051Posts: 18,116 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1609

    The spot of the ball must be located in order to take either back on line or lateral relief. Otherwise you have no reference point.

    Posted:
    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
  • sui generissui generis Members  4449WRX Points: 782Posts: 4,449 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1610

    I can say without reservation that you, LICC, are the most clueless person with respect to the Rules of Golf that I have ever encountered. (I suspect I speak for others here, also.) Here's an idea for you. Exile yourself from the Rules folder until you speak with the USGA and are satisfied with their positions. When you've done that, come back and see us.

    Posted:
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members  18116WRX Points: 1,051Posts: 18,116 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #1611

    You keep saying it has no limit, but it does. I never said 18.1 is never required.

    Posted:
    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
73

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.