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Vintage steel shafts


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I have been recently accumulating and playing a number of blades that date from the 50s to the early 90s. There is a lot of good information on this forum regarding older clubs, but not much about the older steel shafts that one finds in those clubs. Below is a list of the shafts that I have come across. If there are any clubmakers or others that have some knowledge of the characteristics of some of these shafts (weight, stiffness, flex point, feel, etc.) relative to contemporary steel shafts, I would be very interested. Also, any general information about older versus newer steel shafts would be welcome. If you are old enough to remember, were some shafts considered particularly innovative or popular during this period? Did individual manufacturers make their own steel shafts or did they all come from one or two companies (True Temper?) Finally, if you play vintage blades, what are your personal feelings about any of these shafts? Thanks.

Belmullet

 

My list (feel free to add to it):

 

Wilson Dynamic

Wilson aluminum

Wilson Staff Pro (w/stars on label)

Wilson Ultralite

 

Hogan apex

Hogan Apex Pro

Hogan Legend

Hogan Vector

Hogan True Temper "N"

 

Macgregor ProPel

MacGregor ProPel Action

MacGregor Aluminum

MacGregor True Temper Tourney

MacGregory Tourney (red band)

MacGregor Tourney Action

MacGregor Tourney Taper Microstep

 

Ram Light Shot Control

 

Spalding Lightweight Steel Alloy

 

Powerbilt Duo-power

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, I am going to respond to my own post since no one else did. That must be the real definition of a loser! Anyway, over 100 people have viewed this post, but no one has responded. That makes me think of reasons why?

1) Maybe all the older shafts were essentially about the same? Maybe they were all even made by the same company (don't know when True Temper started) and sold to OEM manufacturers who put different labels on them? But some shafts have labels like ultralite. Were they only a few grams lighter? What about bend points? Old blades tend to hit the ball low, at least in my experience. When did lower bend points and more responsive tip sections designed to increase trajectory come into play? Don't know, but I bet some of you do. And what about those aluminum shafts that MacGregor and Wilson used for a while but then discontinued? Were they really a lot lighter? Did they stop using them because steel shafts started being produced that were an equivalent weight or were there other problems with the aluminum shafts that cause people not to like them? I like the feel of stepless shafts- at least Rifle shafts. Were there pre-Rifle shafts that have rifle-like characteristics? Don't know.

2) Maybe shafts are hyped as much as other golf technology and we all spend too much time worrying about such things. I never thought I liked plain vanilla Dynamic and Dynamic Gold shafts, but as I have started hitting blades again, I find it doesn't matter as much to me as I thought it did. Anyone else have a similar experience?
Everyone raves about the 67 Nicklaus VIP irons by MacGregor. If you look in the old MacGregor catalogs, these irons had a shaft that wasn't made for very long. (Don't have the catalog in front of me so I forget what they were called.) Is the shaft part of the mystique or is it just the head design or the forging?

3) As I try out different old sets (if it ever warms up here in Virginia), I'll try and answer some of these questions for myself and post maybe a second reply to my own post, therefore confirming my status as someone who talks to himself. My wife could already attest to that.

4) The only comment I'll make now is that from a short range session, I think that I like Hogan Apex shafts better than Hogan vector shafts- anyone know the difference?

Have a good holiday.
Craig

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I confess to being one of the 'lookers' (or 'lurkers'). I think you got no answers because we all are in the same boat -- just wondering with no real resources or experience from which to draw.

You probably have Kaplan's books on Wilson and MacGregor, so you have probably read the 'official' descriptions of some of the shafts you mention. Other than that, I have never seen any real-life hands-on comparisons or descriptions of these older models. All I can do is go out and hit balls with various sets in my collection, but quite frankly, I am not good enough a golfer to be able to offer much in the way of 'compare and contrast'.

Good luck on your quest for info. I hope you will share it here if you find it.

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Regarding the Hogan shafts, I will venture an opinion that others might be able to refute (or back up) with authority.

The only Hogan set I have with the Apex Pro shaft was labelled as a 5, or extra stiff. Since I had not seen older Hogans in a Apex 5 flex, I assumed that the Apex Pro was just a designation for a special extra stiff version of the Apex.

One difference between the Apex and the Vector (I think it was the vector, maybe it was the Legend), is that the Vector shaft was one of the oversize-butt shafts that were kind of a fad in the late 70's, early 80's.

I am pretty sure the True Temper Rocket 'N' is a 'regular' flex ('n=normal'). Hang on a minute or two and I will give you a scan from an old copy of Maltby's golf club repair book with a small amount of info about some of these. Gotta rebook to get the scanner going.

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Craig,

I admit that my experience with a large sampling of shafts is extremely limited, but I've pondered many of the same questions you've raised here. I've primarily played one of three sets of Wilson Staff's I purchased new in 1987, but I've had brief encounters with others. The Wilson's have the Wilson Dynamic shafts in stiff flex, and those shafts work really well for me. I've often thought that I may very well like other irons I've tried more if they were built with this shaft. I've always assumed they were just a True Temper Dynamic shaft with a Wilson shaft band but I've tried other irons with TT Dynamics in them and they just didn't provide the same level of feedback during the swing. With the Wilson's I have an awareness of exactly where the cluhead is throughout the swing. I can feel that I'm in the correct position at the top of my swing, whether the clubface is open or closed, if I've crossed the line or laid off, etc. I can feel the shaft unload at impact; simply amazing shafts. It may well be that I've just gotten lucky with these shafts, but all three sets behave the same. I've just attributed this to unsurpassed quality from a manufacturer commited to producing an excellent product. I occassionally try out some of the newer blade designs, but I don't have the patience to negotiate the learning curve I feel is needed to make friends with today's shafts. I think Wilson (and other top quality manufacturers from that era) must have put some time into matching the shafts they installed in a set, back when they built a complete set at one time (not a day's worth of 6 irons, then 7 irons, etc.). I'm not sure that kind of committment exists anymore (at least from an off-the-shelf set). It sure seems that vintage blades from the 70's and 80's are certainly as playable and anything produced today.

honketyhank's info is good stuff.

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I own, at least 13 sets of Hogan irons. I am not exactly sure how many. I have 5 at my house, and there are several at my mother's house in the attic. There is one bag, with them in it, at my brothers house in SC.

I have played the apex, apex d shaft in the NO 4 and the NO 5 at different times. How the shafts reacts, totally depends on what type head. The Hogan PC clubs, hit the ball on a lower flatter flight, while the Hogan Redlines, hit the ball on a high rising flight. Both with the same shaft.

In my humble opinion, the best shaft ever made was the Hogan No 5 shaft, with the AMF on the shaft band.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 years later...

Here's a link to a comprehensive technical evaluation of thousands of clubs with different production dates:

http://support.hirekogolf.com/customer-support/dynamic-shaft-fitting-addendum-download-free/

This is somewhat technical, but covers information rarely or never covered anywhere I've found to date. The link starts with a 1992 compendium and goes through 2012.

In the words of the book, "The 2012 version of the annual Hireko trademarked shaft testing project provides up-to-date measurements of thousands of shafts. Included are technical measurements of raw and cut weights, frequencies, torques, balance points and recommended swing speed ranges for each shaft. Included is an explanation of how to use the Dynamic Shaft Fitting Index (DSFI) in total club fitting applications. Written by Jeff Summitt."

Hopes this helps.
Barry

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  • 1 year later...

[attachment=2422851:s890700089357487325_p244_i1_w654.jpg]Can someone say how one shaft that matches it steps
atleast up to the bottom of the grip
with another may not be the same

I have dunlop maxpower shafts in some irons that align perfectly with the old dynamic shaft silver label

Not all the dynamics I have match in step length though all are close
I know there is a difference in taper tip shafts

I also have older irons spalding pro-flite with a label which reads Spalding B
these match up with many other shafts in step pattern
most interesting
these irons have .35 hosels or .33

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or the mixing of one shafts steps with anothers shaft steps
sometimes minimally added -so it would seem-
to come up with it's own shaft

like a Knight shaft which matches up with a dynamic shaft but adds two steps at the bottom of the same length as an apex/dynalite shaft
would this only make it slightly stiffer?

Steel Pro-Fit shaft step pattern matches up with Aluminum Rcket

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Ping EZ Lite matches Dynamic with 2 added on steps at bottom
first step being a dynalite and the last a Pro-Pel step

Maxpower doesn't fit dynamic silver lable but matches up with a dynamic shaft on another iron

Rocket steel shaft label in red on dunlop 65 iron matches a TT-Lite but is thinner in profile towards the butt end.

Ram FX Steel Series matches apex/dynalite but has 9 steps before the larger butt end while taylor made high performance match apex/dynalite but will have 12 steps and the apex edge has 6 while radial has 5

One shaft will match another but one is clearly of a thinner profile/diameter than the other.


Maxpower shaft matches Cleveland 588 purple label Dynamic which is silked Dynamic Gold

SHaft on an American Open Wedge silked Apollo by Accles and Pollock matches TT-Lite

Wilson Airlite Stiff on a mid iron matches the mid iron shaft from the above SPalding Pro-Flite with SPalding B shaft but is thicker in diameter

Tommy Armour Tour-Step II step pattern is a mixture of -from hosel- 2x Propel, 1 TT-lite, 2x Propel, 1 TT-lite, 1 propel and 5TT-lite all before the grip with the same thickness of the tt-lite

Macgregor TOur-FLight matches Spalding B

TT Hogan M on a 306-i iron matches with a TT power-Bilt SUper Action but is much thinner

Mac shaft on MT2 iron without label nearly matches TT Maxpower shaft


WIlson Dynamic matches TT Maxpower

Ram TT Dynamic on Tom Watson wedge matches TT maxpower is perhaps slightly thicker in diameter

Macgregor TT Tour V on M75 ColoKrome matches TT Maxpower

Mac TOurney Action matches Propel shaft

Cleveland CG14 wedge Traction Tip Performance matches TT-Lite but is thin




Really only seems to be a few shafts going around in terms of step pattern but its a combination of shafts or alteration in diameter that makes the most difference


But on VIntage Steel SHaft thread I read that Maxpower is a low kick point standard weight shaft

that doesn't seem right. Maxpower matches all the TT built "Dynamics" for others who want their own shaft so wilson dynamics in all our wilson staff blades are either TT Dynamics with slight change to step length or they're all low kick shafts

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Great thread... Just a few random thoughts...

I never tried those aluminum shafts from the 50s or 60s. Always wondered what they felt like. Soft but weak, I'd guess?

I kind of assumed that in the end, there just wasn't any advantage to those proprietary shafts. Almost all of the better players are going to want Dynamic anyway, right? Not that I'm a "better player", but 99% of the time when I see an interesting old set with anything else, I know it's a negative for me because I don't want to reshaft them.

Interesting what ihyips said about the Wilson Dynamic. I've had or hit a few old sets of Wilsons with Dynamics (2 FG17s, 2 Hagen "The Haig") and in all sets I've felt a little more flex and kick than a later Dynamic Gold, even though the Gold is supposed to be the same thing only weight sorted. I could never explain this but I swear it's there. And IMO it made the club feel even better.

I have an old Hogan laminated (still very nice, though) driver with that Vector shaft. Love that shaft. Very stiff, feels like a very high kickpoint. That's a rare proprietary shaft I could use, I think. I didn't know until I cut the grip off once that it had that oversized butt!

Never cared for much-vaunted Apex shaft even though I'm from Hogan country (dad is from Ft Worth, I was born there) and have had many sets of Hogans.

Maybe my favorite shaft of all time is the Apollo Masterflex in the list Honkeythank posted. When I first got into making club building, not long after I started playing, Dynacraft sold those. Funky step pattern but it plays basically just like a Dynamic (heavier, high-kickpoint) only with maybe a touch more feel. Supposedly those were semi-popular on the Euro Tour back in the day... I think Sam Torrence used them at one point?

Srixon Z785, Wilson Staff 13 3W, W/S FG51 3-PW, Ram Watson Troon 55, Ram Nick Price 62, Wilson 8813, Srixon XV

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Good to see the excerpt posted on shafts that were used by companies - I would have utilized the same source but rather then scan it I would have probably typed it out which would have taken a long time. I sense that a lot of the new stuff is built on some previous shaft that already exists. I'm sure there are some new designs too but why re-invent the wheel when it's already out there. Lots of good choices as long as the clubs are balanced when they are assembled for play. Nice thing about the vintage stuff is that one can readily tweak them with little fear of breaking hosels.

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  • 5 years later...

Bringing an old one back!

I have a set of 1968 VIPs with the Tourney red band shaft (assume they must have been reshafted at some point) as per the pic. Anyone know anything about them?

EDIT - according looks like this shaft may have been standard in the DX line in 1968. Seems odd that they would have found their way into some VIPs. Can’t imagine they left the factory that way.

Must still be a decent enough shaft though, right?

I’d be more inclined to fit different shafts if these Tourneys didn’t have virtually brand new GP Tour Velvet 360s on them...

5OFDYPVXOE2D.jpeg

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  • 2 years later...
20 hours ago, basil6345789 said:

I'm looking at some Wilson Pinehurst irons (from 60''s or 70's maybe?). The shafts are Match Flex Lite - anybody know anything about them /age please?

it would help if you'd post pictures...showing heads - face, back, sole, hozel w/ferrule...and also the shaft w/the band as you described. all of that info helps....it may turn out that they were offered via general/retail & not in pro shops (which as far as I'm concerned, means little about playability...I'd love to find a set or clubs from my first set, H&B Grand Slam Mars 70, which I'm sure were purchased from my GrandFather's wholesale hardware business)...tho some to many may disagree with me on that.
Anyway, good luck on your search....btw, have you hit them?

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