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Houston Astros - Cheaters


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Has anybody been keeping up with the Astros cheating scandal?

What do you think should happen to them given it was endorsed and implemented from the top down?

What do you think about the organization as a whole with the Taubman scandal as well?

Is this worse than the 1919 black sox scandal?

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Scotty Cameron GoLo 6

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I don't even know how I feel. I'm a Dodgers fan. Not just someone who roots for the team, but I watch nearly every game and even follow the minor leagues and the up and coming prospects during the season. I was at Game 1 of that World Series. I could have another set of clubs for what I spent on that ticket.

Whatever happens, while I don't think the Astros deserve to be call World Series Champions, I definitely do NOT want the title handed to the Dodgers if it is indeed vacated. The Dodgers had every chance to win that World Series, even with the Astros cheating. Regardless, they still did not win it.

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Yep. I'm a Yankees fan who watches almost every regular season game and every postseason game. I feel like we were both robbed of a Yankees/Dodgers world series because of their cheating, and you're right, they shouldn't hand the title to LA, just vacate it and it will be like '94, no champion.

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The Expos won in 1994

It's like the Patriots scandals . Maybe theyll be fined a draft pick or something . No major sports league is going to vacate a title. It just wont happen.

Ban management and players for life? Why dont you put "send the players to prison moon base on Jupiter and have them harvest dark matter for black hole research" ....that is literally just as likely to happen

 

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Okay so the Patriots just got caught cheating again so the punishment was obviously not harsh enough

And the Black Sox scandal had all the players involved banned for life and banned from the hall of fame. I think cheating for the entire season to win a world series is worse than taking money to throw it

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Remember that sign stealing in of itself is not illegal. Certain rules now in place were not there in 2017. Did they gain an advantage? Probably. But if everyone else is trying to do it and they're simply better does that mean they should get a bigger punishment?

I in no way find that stealing signs is even close to throwing a WS for betting reasons..... It's not even in the same realm.

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It has always been illegal to use technology to steal signs. They used technology to steal signs for the entire season.

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Actually MLB just instituted the rule to prevent cameras from being used in the outfield before last season. The red sox got burned in 2017 for using technology in the dugout, but the Astros weren't doing that. But Yankees were fined as well for illegal use of the dugout phone.

It's a relatively shady thing but it all circles back to my point that all teams try to do it - just one got better at it than the most.

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mlb needs to come down hard. using technology to cheat ...you have to send a strong message to every team out there.

vacate the world series, strip the next 5 years first round picks.

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Exactly. As we JUST saw with the Patriots, if the punishment isn't harsh enough they'll just do it again. I'm sure if you ask a team's fanbase if they'd trade a few draft picks and a fine for a world series ring, they'd say yes. You need to vacate the title, ban people, etc. so no other team does this kind of thing again.

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If you can get on second base and figure out the signs, and relay them to the hitter in real time, then that's totally fine and I'm all for it. If you can watch a pitcher and figure out his tell if he's tipping pitches, I love that. Little nuances like that are part of what makes baseball a mind game as well as a physical game. Using technology in your home park to give you an unfair advantage that the other team has no access to is abhorrent.

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Still investigating, we know a ton of players, managers, staff, etc. have been interviewed but they haven't said anything about punishment

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don’t know much about this. But. The poll needs a “ do nothing , it’s not a big deal “ option to be fair.

 

If all they did was steal signs , that’s called baseball. Been going on since the game started. You’re just seeing today’s tech being used. In spirit it’s not different.

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I honestly had the same thought before I read you saying it. Easy to combat. Just give the catcher and pitcher earpieces. Done.

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  • 2 weeks later...

And now they are investigating the Red Sox as well. As many have said sign stealing is a baseball tradition. Even with video someone needs to pick up and relay the signs. A lot of the Astros sign stealing really was being observant and catching pitchers that tipped their pitches.

 

do nothing would have been a great poll option.

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This is such a slap on the wrist punishment.

They've effectively said that the price of a championship is $5M, some draft picks, and sit out for 1 year. Ridiculous.

And it was illegal when they did it. You're not (and were not) allowed to use technology to create an unfair advantage. Having a camera in CF that only the home team has access to is cheating. Plain and simple. There was no runner on 2nd base decoding the signs and relaying in real time, not figuring out a pitcher's tell. This was sign stealing by a camera relayed in real time from the dugout with nobody on base.

It's against the rules of the game and was against the rules in 2017.

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I think if you go back and tell the fans what the punishment is and ask them if they want to do it anyway, all of them would say yes. The revenue from the world series alone is way more than the $5M+draft picks. Jose Altuve won the MVP award because the cheating made his batting average higher than Judge (who beat Altuve in almost every other category). The amount of money the Astros made from winning that world series far outweighs the punishment. The fanbase getting to keep the ill-gotten championship makes it worth it in their minds.

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I don't know...the fact that none of the players are getting punished at all (even though the report says the scheme was largely player-driven) just makes me think that any team who wants to win enough will just do it again.

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have to agree.... could double the punishment to $10M and 8 draft picks and that would be more fitting. sounds like both gm and coach have been fired as well. pete rose was banned for life for placing bets on his team...

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That's what I don't get, they've banned people for less. And the fact that none of the players are getting punished despite being the apparent masterminds of this (with Alex Cora). Cora's punishment is still pending the Red Sox investigation but he might get the biggest punishment of all these guys.

 

Also apparent that junior level employees in the clubhouse were taking orders from players yet the players aren't being punished.

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Yeah the union is 100% why the players weren't punished. But according to the report management (Luhnow, Hinch, Cora, etc.) all knew it was going on but didn't stop it.

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I don't follow MLB too closely, so forgive my ignorance. But, I'm having trouble separating out all the actors and incidents here.

 

So, Alex Cora was a bench coach for Houston in 2017 and has been implicated in the cheating scandal. Then, it appears that he was trying to do the same thing in 2018 as the manager for the Red Sox? Is that right?

 

For the record, I much prefer college baseball to MLB. The major league game is a mere shadow of what baseball should be.

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