New GHIN website and app

[Celeras]

I meant it was in my post history for anyone that cared to look. Someone asked a few months ago why I felt that way so I went into detail. I found the post for you: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/19237931#Comment_19237931

[nsxguy]

My bad. I should have clarified - but thanks for the link.

You said it was a hot mess "before the update and continues to be after".

I confess there are a few relatively minor design/operational components that I would have done differently but it certainly doesn't look like a hot mess to me.

I never used the GHIN app on my phone in 2019 so I can't comment on "before". I downloaded it just last night just to see what's going on and it looked OK to me. So what is the hot mess now ?

TIA

[Shilgy]

Yes sir-directly from golf genius. The score is listed in my stats on the GHIN app as played on the 15th but did not get get a handicap update today.

[nsxguy]

Ummmmm,,,,,,, "Golf Genius" ??? Not GHIN (web or app). (I did see the update but there's no date stamp on it)

[Shilgy]

You are not familiar with Golf Genius? It is an app that many clubs use for tournament scoring. With the push of a button all scores are posted directly to GHIN. It is NOT an aftermarket handicap app like Grint or what have you. Every single score gets posted immediately to GHIN. Other scores this year have also been posted by the same method with no issues. It is absolutely the same as me posting directly to GHIN.

 

With the new daily handicap system you will see a handicap update dated the day after you post the score. The round yesterday though I did not get an update today. Hence my original question.

[HatsForBats]

Not for nothing but when was the last time you had updated the old GHIN app? On an Android I didn't have any of the problems you list and the message saying the App was for an older version of Android leads me to believe maybe you had an old version rather than the most current. IDK.

[Celeras]

The December update for the GHIN app was the first time its been updated since 2016. It's literally the first thing I said in the post you clicked on lol.

[DaveLeeNC]

In summary I ran into an issue where the Par #'s on Ghin for a local course were different than were on the scorecard (and different than how the club plays the course). This was from the senior tees (5600 yards at par 72). I found this confusing and a bit problematic WRT playing and posting. The difference was 2 par 5's that were both slightly under 400 yards from those tees and listed as par 4's in Ghin.

I looked today and par has been restored on the Ghin website for this set of tees to par 72. So things are now consistent (other than a couple of hole handicap differences that still exist). I assume that what happened is that course information from Foxfire failed to reach the USGA and the USGA did their own par determination as part of the transition to the WHS. This information was not part of the handicap system prior to the WHS, so it wasn't there.

FWIW.

dave

ps. IMHO, the only good solution here is to move those 2 tee boxes to make these 2 holes play like par 5's. IMHO a 'senior tee' (5600 yards) par 4 at almost 400 yards should not exist - nor should a not quite 400 yard par 5. I will admit that in one case the positioning of that new tee box is less than obvious..

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Dave, wouldn't moving the tee boxes to match the system be like the tail wagging the dog?

[DaveLeeNC]

My comment on moving the tee boxes was not to accommodate 'the system'. I just think that many folks play the senior tees in large part to avoid par 4's that they cannot reach in 2 strokes. And 385 yards really isn't a par 5. I would have said the same thing had the WHS transition never occurred and the USGA had never tried to label this a par 4.

But this is a course design opinion only.

dave

ps. I would have a similar opinion regarding a 220 yard par 3.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Gotcha now. I misunderstood

[HatsForBats]

Right, you were using an out of date App. It was updated to a new App I think at the beginning of 2019 but don't quote me on that timing. It's all moot now as there is a new App for use with the WHS system.

[nsxguy]

Interesting issue. USGA yardages are "recommendations", not requirements, so I guess keeping those 2 holes as par 5s is within the "rules".

And if everybody is playing the yellow same tees then of course the relative CH is the same for everybody and therefore "fair".

But if playing a mixed tee set event, the guys from the yellows are now (with par as 72) giving 1 more shot to players playing the white-gold hybrid, and 2 more shots to the guys playing the whites than if those 2 holes were both "correctly" par 4s. (CR-PAR). (I am assuming here that the CR doesn't change from the yellows).

[HatsForBats]

@DaveLeeNC said: ...And 385 yards really isn't a par 5. I would have said the same thing had the WHS transition never occurred and the USGA had never tried to label this a par 4... ps. I would have a similar opinion regarding a 220 yard par 3.

I would have to disagree with you and the USGA. For example the shortest par 4 on our course is moderately uphill at 250 yards (par 4) from the 'back' tees and 220 yards (par 4) from the front tees. I have yet to see anyone reach the green from the front tees when the front tees were the proper distance for their driving distance. It's a par 4 for them no matter what par is written on the card. As you say many folks play the senior front tees in large part to avoid par 4's they cannot reach in 2 strokes. That would leave me to believe, and I have witnessed it first hand, that they would feel the same way about a Par 3 (not being able to reach it in one).

If the distance gap from the one tee to the next is inline with the rest of the course, which our shortest par 4 is, I don't see any problem with the Par for the hole being the same for both tees. Our shortest Par 4 is a drivable hole for me and my buddy in his late 60's who can still knock a ball around definitely needs 2 shots to get on the green from the front tees. It's a par 4 for both of us.

I get it when the distance gap is out of line, like the 12th hole at FireFox Red tees) but when the gap is reasonable I think both tees should play as the same par.

Out of curiosity I tried something with the scorecard you posted. Here is the percentage of the White Tee's that each gold tee plays as. Without having played the course I was comparing how it would go based on the yardages if a 250 yard driver was playing another player at about 220 (thinking of driving yards as when a player is have at least an average driving day they are in that 250 or 220 range). The 220 driver is at 88% of the 250 yard driver. I think +/- 10% is a reasonable range for the same par on a hole, YMMV. Hole 9 seems like a similar advantage but in favor of the longer hitter. I don't think anyone is complaining that that hole is a par 5 for both players?

Hole 01 = 84.8% (285/336) | Par 4
Hole 02 = 83.1% (324/390) | Par 4
Hole 03 = 94% (346/368) | Par 4
Hole 04 = 78.8% (386/490 | Par 5
Hole 05 = 88.7 (165/186) | Par 3
Hole 06 = 86.2 (338/392) | Par 4
Hole 07 = 94.5 (380/402) | Par 4
Hole 08 = 91.8 (158/172) | Par 3
Hole 09 = 96.7 (474/490) | Par 5

Hole 10 = 84.8 (258/304) | Par 4
Hole 11 = 95.1 (367/386 | Par 4
Hole 12 = 68.3 (377/552) | Par 5
Hole 13 = 90.1 (109/121) | Par 3
Hole 14 = 92.8 (426/459) | Par 5
Hole 15 = 92.0 (333/362) | Par 4
Hole 16 = 94.8 (349/368) | Par 4
Hole 17 = 86.9 (152/175) | Par 3
Hole 18 = 94.8 (366/386) | Par 4

IMO, albeit without having played the course and seen the actual hole layouts, hole 4 is not that out of line as a Par 5 from the Gold tees versus the white tees. I can agree on hole 12 being too much of a gap though.

[Celeras]

No, I didn't. And no, it wasn't.

[nsxguy]

{never mind - just a test}

[DaveLeeNC]

@HatsForBats Re:Post 254
The view that a more forward set of tees should simply be a shorter version of whatever the course is from the longer tees is a reasonable view, I think.
In this particular case and hole #4 there simply was no reason that I can see to take over 100 yards off that hole from the 'senior tees'. It becomes something 'more different' than just a shorter version of its elder sibling.
In the case of hole 12 (around 175 yards shorter) - pretty much off the wall. In their defense, this hole has a pond just in front of the more rear tees. And once you cross that it is a pretty steep uphill for another 75 to 100 yards (steep enough to question whether some normal, but lower trajectory drives would clear the fairway). So this was the expedient solution (go to the top of the hill).
But if there is a course that has a 475 yard par 4 from the middle tees and someone wants to put the 'senior teebox' at 425 - I can see that
dave

[RickK]

I am in Texas. I primarily use the app on my Android phone for GHIN. I updated the app when it was available and honestly, having been in the software business for years, I am quite disappointed in their user interface on the app. Also, there is some information that we could get before that is no longer available.

From a posting score perspective...at first, none of the courses I play would allow hole by hole entry. Some of those are now available, some are not. So, I try to enter hole by hole and if not available, just enter total score. Not a big deal to me.

Some courses give a message that no tees are available. The app does not allow for manual entry of slope and course rating. If you use your computer, it does. Geez...this is just software guys..FIX IT.

Stats...on the phone app. What happened to the "counts" we could get before? If you want to know how many rounds you have played in the last 12 months, you have to now scroll thru them and count them as you go. Again...it is just software. Totals in software are about the simplest thing a programmer has to do. FIX IT

It seems that the totals you could get in the old app are all missing. I just simply gave up after a while.

As far as how the WHS works, I don't really have a problem with it. Not really impressed by the fact that "par" is now viewed as important when in the past it really wasn't but so be it.

[ThinkingPlus]

Does the nearby course detection work on your app/phone? It seems that apps in general and GHIN specifically are not well integrated with location services under Android.

[RickK]

Nope, does not work. I can be sitting at my club in the parking lot so I know I have good GPS/Location signal and it does not recognize it.

I was in the software business for 50 years. If my group released software that was as "buggy" as this app is, I would have been unemployed.

[ThinkingPlus]

Yep. Wrote code of various sorts for 20 years or so. Bugs = destroyed hardware or bad design approaches. DOD doesn't take kindly to those kinds of problems. Most code written today seems to pretty much be crap. Thanks for the info.