Potential Changes for No. 13 at Augusta

[Hankshank]

I’ll see if I can dig some old masters pics from the time when 9 was 18. Know I’ve seen some before and it had a lot more grandeur. Even now, 9 opens up to a great approach. The green is quirky though.

A pity no water is running in that valley that splits The fairways of 9 and 18. Then, 9 could have been made into a great short par 4 giving room to 18 being made into a par 5 with the green in current-9th-green-territory. 17, well the green area is pretty cool. But, if you look at maps, its hopeless to produce drama there on the tee or fairway. The hole rythm just begs for a short par 4 but I cannot see it done. Some new Eisenhowers to make it at least visually attractive.

[North Texas]

I agree with Fred Ridley.

“There’s a great quote from Bobby Jones dealing specifically with the 13th hole, which has been lengthened over time, and he said that the decision to go for the green in two should be a momentous one,” Augusta National and Masters Chairman Fred Ridley said Wednesday. “And I would have to say that our observations of these great players hitting middle and even short irons into that hole is not a momentous decision.”

[Darth Putter]

unless it's a 6 iron out of the right trees...

 

[Darth Putter]

Two sets of tees may be the answer. The new tee used for the warm days when the wind is helping from the south or southeast and the current tee for cool days when the wind is into the golfer from the northwest.

[Shilgy]

When was that last the case-if ever? I have been watching the Masters for over 40 years(or at least as much as it was on television back then) and do not recall ever an era where many players laid up on 13. So how is it a “momentous decision “ if every single player plays for it in two? On that hole you cannot even call it “going for it in two” because it is just the normal play. Which a par 4 1/2 should be.

 

edited to add....on the type of course Augusta National was intended to be every single hole does not need to be an extreme slog where par is a great score.

[lowheel]

I think the green on 13 and the pin placements are sinister. ( unless my memory is wrong i believe tiger putted his ball off the green there one year) You never and i mean never have a flat lie in the fairway. Ive seen more 5-6 footers missed there with 5-6 footer comebackers than any other green. Its as exciting a hole as you can get. Can change the tournament complexion in a heartbeat.Im ok with a little more length but not an extreme 60 yards. I agree with darth above maybe 2 out of the 4 days play it a little longer if the wind is helping but that hole is a turning point on sunday afternoons. id hate to see only wedges in there. weve seen iconic shots there i hope that doesnt change

[jonsnow]

I think what to do with #13 should be decided by an entmoot. Specifically because it would take a long, long time...

[Darth Putter]

I forgot to mention, while we're changing #13 flatten that back left coffin corner on the green a bit too.

[lowheel]

I rather enjoy watching players facial reactions when they tug an iron and go long there. their face is like WTF! they know its a brutal shot coming up

[BiggErn]

How dare a great drive be rewarded.

[ode1]

Why not call it a par 4 and see what happens with scoring.....then see about tees.......they might end up moving em up!

[hitemstr8r]

Appreciate the disagreement. I'm simply responding to these two simple questions. Have the governing bodies made any decisions in regards to distance control? I would have to answer no. Can we see construction starting behind the tee box on hole 13 on google earth. Yes. Now, a couple things. Could this be a concession stand? Unlikely, but sure. More likely, have Fred and others been in closed door meetings and had contact with the governing bodies and basically come to the conclusion that they will not attempt to control distances in the near future? Very likely at least that he has been in close contact, decisions or whispers of one would only be pure speculation on my part. I don't have the answers obviously, I just made a wisecrack and not that funny of a comment.

[BiggErn]

You can try and control distance all you want but the short guys are still gonna be short and the long guys are gonna be long. It’s not just equipment.

[Roadking2003]

#13 is perfect as it is now and it delivers high drama every year. No changes needed.

[Roadking2003]

Yes, more than ten years ago.

[stingerfade]

Make it a par 4

[RainShadow]

One of the all time great shots............

[gvogel]

These are good questions.

I think that the USGA and R&A would like to dial back distance. I think that Fred Ridley would like to dial back distance. The problem is, those two or three groups need buy-in from the major Tours, most importantly the PGA Tour. I think that Monahan, on behalf of his players, is against a roll back. They call that a stymie.

[Strömsborg]

This is what it looks like if they play it to full length. A 300 yard drive gives 255 to the green with the slope helping the draw. Almost everyone in the field can hit it 300 yards. For the longer hitters it's still an iron after a proper drive, and I think they will hit it as hard as they can every time. Everywhere but the creek with the driver and it's a birdie hole.

[Roadking2003]

Looks like your yellow line goes right through the trees. Maybe they really are 90% air.

[Hawkeye77]

That 300 yard drive you are measuring is a huge uphill, so wouldn't so sure of where you think they would be landing, or where the tee may end up. Some trees gonna have to move.

[Shakespeare]

Maybe if it was 235 in after a 300 yd drive...the bigger hitters would have to turn it over a little into a tight fairway...but the reward would be a 210 yd iron...idk...would like to see something different then what it is now

 

[GMR2iron]

They will still be able to get home in two with ease; but instead of having 9, 8, or 7 iron, it will 5, 4, or 3 iron. The a$$ of a tour pro doesn't pucker just because he has a 4 iron in his hand instead of 8 iron.

[Roadking2003]

Interesting stat; The historical average score is 4.79. And lots of players didn't even make par. So what does the average score need to be to make it a good hole?

 

#12 plays over par and it's a very short hole, usually much shorter than the second shot on #13. So why is #12 a good hole and #13 a bad hole?

 

Maybe the solution to #13 is to make the green more shallow like #12.

[Ferguson]

 

Good post.

 

Or make the green more narrow.

 

[JimmyC59]

I believe you're thinking of Snowden. The Kapok Kid was in Alistair MacLean's "HMS Ulysses".

 

[Strömsborg]

Google Earth says it's not uphill but that the landing area is in an upslope, so little roll. On the other hand the hole is playing it's longest in my illustration. Move the tee up 20 yards, still 40 yards longer than in 2019, and a lot of players will go for it.

[Hawkeye77]

Stand at the top of the hill and look back. It is uphill. The tee box is elevated - walk down from the tee and it's a steady 30 foot climb from the creek up the hill and your projected landing area is right into that slope, as you say. I'm sure they will go for it, so to speak, but just pointing out trees will need to disappear on the left if the tee is moved back.

[jmck]

Interesting how moving the landing area for the drive changes the relationship between the second shot and the treeline on the left. To hit a fade into the green you’d have to play your drive to the right side of the fairway thus lengthening the second shot even more. Playing a draw into the green around the trees from down by the creek is a tough ask.

[Shilgy]

Exactly. And what exactly is wrong with a par 4 1/2? Seems to me too many folks think 13 at Augusta needs something because as a par 5 it’s too easy. But 17 at St Andrews- the Road Hole- is a great hole because it’s a great par 4. Both are great holes- does it matter if a 4 is a par or a birdie?