Club Champion

[WristySwing]

Working at a fitting studio, I can tell you a lot more people buy custom than you think. Also, they do offer stock options. Just because the people in this thread cr@p their pants and the cost of something and run out and whine about it online doesn't mean other people don't ask about retail cost. Also, the people on this website are by and large VERY cheap, they call it being savvy, but its really just cheapness in disguise. The person a few above us here said he talked to his fitter about a budget ahead of time and they hit that target. Communication is key and asking questions usually gets you answers.

[jeffrey r]

Well said Wristy... I think a lot of folks on here don't want to admit that reality, that they are cheap as all get-out. Now, I don't begrudge someone who doesn't want to pay the CC (or comparable) premium. But the contempt that some WRX'ers show for those who do order through CC (or comparable) is somewhat laughable.

I recently had CC order some of my shafts and build some of my clubs. To me, the convenience, the building of a relationship, and getting it done right, was worth it. I could have gone all "WRX" and cobbled it all together myself and had it built somewhere else, but in this instance, I chose not to. As an aside, when CC checked the lie angles on my 919 HMs, they were off from what they should have been from the factory, and off from what they should have been when I had them subsequently bent more upright by a big box store. Hence, bolstering the notion of maybe paying a bit of a premium to help assure something is done properly, if one chooses to go that route.

There was a guy recently IIRC, who posted here getting fit at CC, had these very specific build specs of SW, length, shafts, etc. And was asking questions essentially looking to skirt around CC doing the ordering and the building. Can the alternative be done--of course. But it can also be a mess.

[e-man]

I posted above about the fact that Club Champion does not offer stock shafts. I am speaking from personal experience. Now admittedly, it has been a few years since I did my fitting, but when I was fitted, they did not have stock shafts for me to test against the more expensive shafts. My swing speed at the time was around 95 mph. It would have been very helpful to know whether or not the stock shafts could perform at a level similar to the more expensive shafts. So for those of you out there who swing at 100 mph or above, I get it as there may not be a need to test stock shafts. But for us mere mortals, there is.

Perhaps CC now offers stock shafts for testing, in which case that is great.

 

[federerfan23]

Couldn't agree with this more. The convenience factor is HUGE and making sure things are done the right way is worth a lot to me.

[WristySwing]

It's a myth about whether stock shafts or aftermarkets only work for faster guys. They either work for you or they don't. It is all about player feel and their perception of the overall stiffness or weight. Some people are extremely sensitive to that, others not so much and can "get away" with it. I used to be a person who thought I could play anything as nothing produced exceptionally different numbers for me, until I moved positions and got this job where I have the ability to try numerous shafts one after the other in the same head using the same locking mechanism and being able to keep the head the same (lie, loft too). I found that I hate the feel of counterbalanced iron shafts and driver shafts, but I do weirdly exceptionally well with them in a 3 wood. But no other club.

I've also seen players who swing well under 90mph do fantastic with some shafts over the others, as much as 20 extra yards carry. On the flip side, I've seen players who are mega quick really kind of hit anything fine as long as the weight profile is sort of in the ball park. I've also seen slower players using shafts much too stiff and heavy for them to great success and when you try and get them into something that on paper should match their input ability a bit more they struggle.

By and large nowadays a lot of OEMs are smartening up and putting aftermarket shafts into their products, even if there are slight tweaks. The new Aldila Rogue lines are in Callaway, Taylormade, and Cobra, the Ventus is in Fujikura (sans-VeloCore), Mitsubishi has had a very long partnership with Titleist and Taylormade, and recently Project X has really been pushing their products into OEM hands. So, in summary, you don't necessarily need to try the "stock" shaft as there are so many stock shafts nowadays that word doesn't really mean anything. I'd wager the only companies that really have a stock shaft are Ping and Cleveland.

 

[WristySwing]

A lot of it is just jealousy or as another poster put it above that there is a mentality of "I can do it better". I'm sure that can be the case a few times, but for most of an online community made up of tens of thousands, I seriously doubt that. Despite the WRX trope of being for the "serious" golfer. I too can post a handicap of +1 and kit out my signature with crazy hard to hit clubs and shafts so stiff it'd make Sadlowski's back hurt trying to get them to load, but that is just it. I can be anything I want on the internet. I take almost all posts here with a massive grain of salt and have about 4-5 guys I actually believe when I see what they write about.

I've been in the business long enough to know that the vast, vast majority of players shoot no better than around 90, swing it no faster than about 90, seriously lack any sort of club face control, and play clubs much too hard for them to hit and much too stiff and heavy. However, golfers are a gullible bunch that jump at anything to help them play better. Sure some on here are going to balk at the $1000 driver, but if it gives Dr. Jones or Accountant Smith an edge in their weekend Nassau against their brother in law, most are going to jump to it. Or they aren't, and they are going to wait for it to go on sale and either gripe it doesn't fit them like promised (while ignoring it's not the same club) or trick themselves into thinking they hit it just as well if not better.

I'm part of another golf forum and like clockwork when the snow melts the club junkies come out. They have no issues spending over $100 on fittings but when it's time to buy the club they freeze and 2-3 weeks later you see them asking about driver X or iron set Y that is so far off the planet from what they got fit for its not even worth the effort. But it's a good deal, and that's what matters and they are really "showing" the studios whose in charge of the money by buying a revolving door of product and hoping something sticks instead of buying the thing that fits or finding the closest possible retail alternative and just accepting the results as true. But what do I know, I'm just a salesman after all I guess.

[swgolf12]

Have you gotten a chance to check it out yet? I'm just not sure how they're going to do well with the Warehouse and Mikes golf outlet right round them, and then having Chris Cote's offer free club fittings vs what they charge not sure how it's going to work out for them.

[TylerJ89]

I live in Lincoln, NE and went to this exact Club Champion in Omaha a few weeks after it opened when they were doing their 40% fittings.  Graham Willer was my fitter.  He had a ton of knowledge about all of the shafts, including each of the companies backgrounds.  I was thoroughly impressed with my fitting and would definitely go back. 

I did not buy anything from them as their prices were absolutely outrageous.  I went and had a shaft ONLY fitting for my driving iron, 5 wood and driver.  They quoted me $1,425 for them.  I took the spec sheet and bought all of the shafts/adapters/grips/ etc online and after install, I paid $550.  I saved almost $1,000 doing everything myself.

All in all, Club Champion was a great experience

[ssfranny]

Your person who buys new gear every number of years may pay a premium for custom gear but probably the exception rather than the rule. Lets face it many go to a retailer to "showroom" a new club and find better pricing online. Is that being cheap no its being smart. Most of my buddies who are on WRX are equipment hos like myself so were looking for the best price. I totally get the fitting at a Club Champion or fitting studio but in that case I would take the specs and order myself. To blanket call people on WRX cheap is wrong IMHO

[ssfranny]

Is it worth paying retail and $200-300 for a fitting? I dont know I think the fitting is worth it at 40% off but how many people will pay the full $350 for a 3.5 hour fitting? Rich people with money to burn.

[WristySwing]

You're basically making my case for me. You obviously aren't a CC target consumer and they probably wouldn't want you as a customer anyway if you are going to complain to the fitter the whole time about the price. You've posted 4 or 5 times on this page alone griping about how much it costs just to do the fitting. You are also saying you are hunting for the "best" price. Retail and MSRP are blanket prices that companies are under contract to sell at it or else lose their account. You are looking for a price cheaper than retail, right? So you either can't afford it, in that case, why bother looking for something you can't afford, or you can afford it and prefer to look elsewhere for it because you think you can't be bothered to buy it from them OR because you don't want to pay retail. That's literally the definition of cheap according to Google:

miserly; stingy.

"she's too cheap to send me a postcard"

As for your comments wondering about people paying $350 to get fit. We are booked out until May for a certain fit level that is $800 for a 5 hour fit and that doesn't include the price of the clubs. We are over 90% sale rate on that fitting type, with sales averaging over $5000 + the fit fee. Looks you don't understand the golf consumer as much as you think you do. The WRX trope is by and large the exception to the rule. Very few golfers are "golf hos" and most people really could care less what they are playing, what it looks like, and how it feels as long as it helps them hit the shot they need to hit.

In life (and retail) you have 2 types of people. Those that pay a premium for really good quality items and replace them only when they are beyond use and those who buy a bunch of lower quality items once every year or two. The end result is the same, they both end up spending the same at the end of the day. The difference is the second example people are always looking for something that "works" better. This is applicable to clothing, shoes, cars, houses; anything really.

[ssfranny]

First off Im not going to complain to the fitter about the price I already know Id buy it elsewhere. I dont pay retail as many also do here they buy from Discount Dans. Unless youre fitting studio is in a place like Palm Springs, Scottsdale or Palm Beach youre typical golfer isnt paying $300 to $800 what you charge for a fitting. Im not cheap I spend $3-$4000 on gear most every year. I buy and sell a lot and buy smart so I lose very little when I selll like most WRXers. You call us cheap but again I think its smart. You think someone whos well off or rich is paying retail for a car or house? Why do you think most would for a set of clubs? I get you trying to justify your job and prices. I play PXG and they are opening fitting studios in major cities what do they charge for a fitting? Nothiing. Club Champion model not sustainable. Prob why they sold out to PE firm. Local one here that just opened is only open till 6 pm during the week so they assume people are taking off 2-3 hours on a Tuesday to get fitted? I doubt it. I also call BS that you charge up to $800 for a fitting with a 90% conversion rate and average sale is $5000 that PXG prices.

[KMeloney]

And yet there they are.

Did you short CC stock or something? Not quite sure why you keep questioning their biz model (which has existed for some years now).

[WristySwing]

I know for a fact what the richest of the rich in my area pay for golf equipment. I can tell you its more than what you think it is. Take a look at the prices of another studio. $800 for a full bag fit by one of the best in the biz. https://txg.ca/toronto/

[ssfranny]

Sure If its TXG I get that theyre prob one of the best in the biz. But Id put up most WRXers in terms of knowledge about equipment against majority of people working at a big box golf retailer. And prob half of the custom fitters.

[rgk5]

Here you just blew your argument out of the water. You spend $3-4K per year on gear yet think the guy that spends $5k plus $800 on one of the world's best fitters is an idiot. His clubs last 4-6 years while yours get replaced every year. Two years down the road you have spent more and the cycle continues. BTW, I can personally vouch for Wristy Swing's sales and conversion numbers becuase I know their operation very well. They deal in a different world and BTW, the sell PXG.

[WristySwing]

I wouldn't.

[mizuno player]

I have never been to CC for a few reasons. Mostly I have a fitter I've used for over 20 years. I trust him. All my fittings and purchases from him have been perfect.

However, if I didn't have that relationship I'm not sure I would pay the full retail prices CC charges for products. I'm not cheap I am also not foolish with money. If I can buy the exact same shaft for up to $200 less why wouldn't I? $50-75 more? I would do that if I thought I was getting superior service and convenience.

I have never been sold on the flow and whatever else they do to the shafts when they install them. Maybe I'm missing the boat but that's ok with me.

Lastly, if someone goes to CC and buys from them and they are happy. Well, that's all that matters really. If you don't like the prices don't buy. That doesn't make you cheap.

Their business model obviously works. They keep opening new locations.

[gsrjc]

While that might be true. Don’t you think the price would scare folks away?

[cbbaron]

A lot of sales are made on emotion and I can tell you the Boston area CC is in an area of 750 to 2 million dollar homes where if you just showed a customer they gained 22 yards on their drives they will pay the money. now in my case I was fitted in Ping I200s with no uncharge from ping shafts so I paid what was the MAP for them and took the specs for Driver went to a local place and traded my old irons and driver for the new one.

[WristySwing]

No, it shouldn't for two reasons. The first is that you should always show the higher priced option first with all of the custom bells and whistles. If they are okay with it they usually look at it and say "okay, let's do it". However, I should preface this by saying that if you ask budget ahead of time there should be no "scary" number at the end. The second is that if they hit that budget and discussed it ahead of time, which they should 100% do, and the price seems a little higher than the performance mandates OR the winning shaft was a bit outside of the range because nothing seemed to be working, you can use your words and say "okay, that's great I like X, but is there maybe something in Y that is a no charge option that is close to what I was fit for that I can order for now and see if I can get away with it?" --- literally any fitting studio can get a built option, even if they are a component account.

On the other hand you still get some who say "send me that and I'll think about it and let you know." They rarely ever do let you know. Those are the people who probably weren't going to buy anyways and are just the spec hunters who are then going to hunt eBay or Facebook MarketPlace endlessly to save $200 and waste a couple of months. Or they have it in their head that if they just do the most basic adjustment to their clubs that you did generally (like say bending the lie angle) it will somehow transform their clubs like magic despite the wildly different shaft profile or head design or face tech the new one has vs. the older one. Which is fine, they can do that but it will be like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound, not going to do much unless you do invasive surgery.

[DLiver]

I had a great experience at CC. As others have said, a lot of it is dependent on your fitter. And honestly, some of it is dependent on the customer. I have been to a lot of fittings through the years, and have seen that some people come in without any idea of what they want to get out of the fitting. Others are resistant to just about everything the fitter suggests.

Anyway, I had a full bag fitting. I was hoping to get more distance and height on my irons, perhaps through lighter shafts (I was playing 120g shafts at the time). As I have seen in past fittings, I always do better with heavier shafts. Somehow, I picked up distance and height on my irons (which was confirmed when I started played them on the course). Interestingly, the fitter said they couldn't do better than my two-year-old driver, and couldn't touch my hybrids either. The SAM lab showed that my putter was also a good fit, but I would benefit from a little more loft. They adjusted that for me at no charge.

I was open minded about buying from CC going in, even though I knew they were really expensive. The upcharge wasn't too bad, and I could afford it, so I had them build an iron set for me. Specs were right on. I'm still loving the irons a year later. Overall, an excellent experience for me.

[e-man]

Is there anything wrong with walking into CC with no intention to buy or even with the specific intention of taking the fitting results and buying elsewhere? You’re paying for the fitting, right? If CC had an issue with this, they could always charge more for the fitting to make it worth their while, right?

[WristySwing]

No, nothing wrong with that. I just prefer honesty, and I'm sure other fitters do as well. Or don't go in and say "fit me for the best" and then get annoyed when the price is astronomical and you can find last year's driver with a 4x pulled shaft that's missing a little paint for 25% of the cost of the new one. That is what annoys me, is the complaining about the price when there are SO many threads documenting that you are paying full retail on everything. This shouldn't be a surprise. @RealNickG did what you propose and didn't complain, and that's how it should be.
I imagine if they did have a price X for fit only and price Y for fit if you buy would work, I know some places that do that. However, there are always some people who may question if they are getting the full fitting experience that way and instead are steered more towards a certain product (either higher or lower than what they are interested in) in an effort to make the sale. For instance, if you make it noted you aren't buying they might only pull the TPT and Oban iron shafts that are very tough to come by on the second hand market or purposely pull only the cheaper options like C6 or lower-priced UST offerings in a way to pressure you into "it's only $150 more than retail and LOOK HOW WELL YOU HIT IT". Others have documented, at least around me, that they often felt pressured by this strategy of the removed fit fee or partial fit-fee refund as the salesperson used it as a pressure tactic to get the person to say yes on the spot. They also mentioned they much prefer the 1 flat fee struture as they knew what they were paying when they went in with no expectation of purchase.

[e-man]

But isn’t that the reason why honesty doesn’t work? Because it could change the way that the fitter goes about the fitting, the effort he/she puts in, the products they recommend, etc. ?

[ignitewvu]

The CC in Pittsburgh cut off 2.5 inches off a friends putter and didn't even mention anything about Swingweight or grip differences to him. I was shocked & questioned if they talked about replacing the weights with heavier ones and he said no.

Wouldn't trust them to do anything...

[WristySwing]

Well there you go, case and point. You believe the fitter is going to skew their methods. Would you be annoyed to pay say, $200 for the fitting when the person in the bay next to you paid $100 because they bought a stock SZ driver (for example)? Because that just ate into your "DIY" build and turns that shaft or head closer to retail by a good chunk.

[e-man]

Maybe I missed your point because I thought that’s what you were saying, that a fitter might pull only certain shafts that are hard to come by on the open market if they knew that you weren’t going to buy from them and were going to try to buy the same specs on the open market. If, on the other hand, the fitter felt pretty confident that you were going to buy from them, then they would pull out anything and everything, try all combinations, knowing that if he found the one that worked, he’d have a sale.

That’s why I wouldn’t feel like I was getting the best service if i walked in and said “just here for the fitting, going to buy the equipment elsewhere.” Not knocking CC, it’s human nature. So if CC has an issue with that type of customer, either raise the price of the fitting to the point where it makes sense for CC from a financial standpoint and then maybe also deduct the cost of the fitting from any equipment purchase made there.

[MerryTex]

Any idea on iron pricing there? Would I have the option to not pure the shafts as well? I've been needing to call them for a while now but I haven't had the chance. I'd honestly just go with a basic build. Also, if it would be just a basic build in terms of shaft and SW, etc... would they do it or go through OEM?

[cbbaron]

I bought Ping I200s there three years ago they gave me the option to pure I declined they sold me the set at MSRP since they fit me into a KBS shaft that wasn't an uncharge from Ping but since they didn't build the set I didn't get the money back guarantee. Also FWIW they did fit me with D7 swing weights I know people earlier had stated they didn't necessarily fit swing weight they did for me