Craft beer Drinkers Unite!

[zeoalex]

> @srooch2 said:

> Hello all, I have just left the brewing business after 4 years of commercial brewing 3 of which I was the head brewer(brewmaster) due to chronic back pain. I am also not playing any golf at the moment needless to say. If anybody wants to chat technical things on brewing or any general questions don't hesitate to ask. I am staying home with my 2 kids full time now and am looking forward to my next chapter but still look forward to homebrewing again and eventually playing golf someday. Cheers

 

Did you enjoy brewing on a commercial scale? I'm a big homebrewer (just got the first few batches run through my new 15gal electric system and cannot talk enough about how much easier it is than outdoor/gas) and have been pulled into discussion re: opening a small (5bbl cap) local brewery.

[srooch2]

> @zeoalex said: Did you enjoy brewing on a commercial scale? I'm a big homebrewer (just got the first few batches run through my new 15gal electric system and cannot talk enough about how much easier it is than outdoor/gas) and have been pulled into discussion re: opening a small (5bbl cap) local brewery.

Yes I loved brewing commercially, it was fun and very rewarding but A LOT of work. My first advice is to be good at business first or make sure someone you are partnered with is. Sounds like a no brainer but this is the biggest downfall of small breweries; just thinking they can brew a good beer and the rest will take care of itself. You will be crunching a lot of numbers and need to have that end covered more so than the brewing side. I've seen breweries make bad beer and have such a good structured business and marketing plan that they succeed. I've also seen the opposite, breweries make great beer and fail because they weren't ready for the business end of things. I usually advise people to work in another commercial brewery first, there is a ton of things that we do commercially that homebrewers just don't know about; CIP, purging tanks, proper disposal of chemicals and the list goes on. If that is not an option, do yourself a huge favor and hire a consultant, this will be the best investment you can make as long as they are the right one. Also, remember that brewing is a labor of love for a reason, you will never get rich off of it. I know with all the influx of breweries right now it seems like it's a thriving industry but you do not make much money especially on a smaller scale like you are talking about. It can be done but it's difficult. Study your local market and see where you can fit in, the market is trending towards smaller breweries so you have to find you niche. I have written multiple business plans and you will have to have a sound one with tight numbers and an exit strategy if the worst happens. I could go on and on about it. If you get serious you can always reach out to me. I will start dabbling in consulting someday so I might be able to help if that day comes. Best of luck and I hope this helps a little. Cheers

 

[zeoalex]

> @srooch2 said:

> > @zeoalex said: Did you enjoy brewing on a commercial scale? I'm a big homebrewer (just got the first few batches run through my new 15gal electric system and cannot talk enough about how much easier it is than outdoor/gas) and have been pulled into discussion re: opening a small (5bbl cap) local brewery.

> Yes I loved brewing commercially, it was fun and very rewarding but A LOT of work. My first advice is to be good at business first or make sure someone you are partnered with is. Sounds like a no brainer but this is the biggest downfall of small breweries; just thinking they can brew a good beer and the rest will take care of itself. You will be crunching a lot of numbers and need to have that end covered more so than the brewing side. I've seen breweries make bad beer and have such a good structured business and marketing plan that they succeed. I've also seen the opposite, breweries make great beer and fail because they weren't ready for the business end of things. I usually advise people to work in another commercial brewery first, there is a ton of things that we do commercially that homebrewers just don't know about; CIP, purging tanks, proper disposal of chemicals and the list goes on. If that is not an option, do yourself a huge favor and hire a consultant, this will be the best investment you can make as long as they are the right one. Also, remember that brewing is a labor of love for a reason, you will never get rich off of it. I know with all the influx of breweries right now it seems like it's a thriving industry but you do not make much money especially on a smaller scale like you are talking about. It can be done but it's difficult. Study your local market and see where you can fit in, the market is trending towards smaller breweries so you have to find you niche. I have written multiple business plans and you will have to have a sound one with tight numbers and an exit strategy if the worst happens. I could go on and on about it. If you get serious you can always reach out to me. I will start dabbling in consulting someday so I might be able to help if that day comes. Best of luck and I hope this helps a little. Cheers

>

 

Thank you for the insight! We've gotten as far as to figure an area, and write up a business plan that we're finalizing/tweaking right now. We've found an area that is pretty much devoid of breweries, and a town council that seems really receptive to something like that. The goal is to be almost entirely community based and develop it as a co-op where members buy into the business and get things back out (ie: profit sharing, decision making power, LOADS of education opportunities, etc) which I think is something else that will help us stand out.

I don't claim to know too much about the pro-brewing side, but as I've built up my new system (I'll post some shots later), I've tried to incorporate some of the more pro-level stuff like CIP (even though I'm not using caustics), My hope is not to be *the* brewer, but *a* brewer for this place which would hopefully let me keep my day job that I really like, but who knows heh. I'll definitely reach out at some point in the future!

 

[PappyVanWinkle53]

> @7ironDave said:

> Luckily for me I pass by Tree House every other week.

>

 

 

From one Tree House lover to another.....was finally able to get my hands on King Julius. Ranked #6 by Beer Advocate. This stuff is magical.

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/top-rated/

[jonesry09]

Glad i stumbled upon this thread. I LOVE me some beer!!!!

Lived in Germany for 5 years and was spoiled by being able to drive to some of the Lambic places in Brussels (Cantillon, 3F etc). I'm not a huge lambic but I loaded up on it up pretty well and it was just cool to see the history of beer. There are so many good options out there right now and we are just about to hit Stout season which makes me excited,

[DrewBallin]

My local Festival Foods recently decided to put out 2017 and '18 Founders CBS bombers. I've stocked up, and they have plenty more. Love that beer!

[1puttTUT]

Nothing fancy about this...just a really solid IPA

 

 

[Argonne69]

2019 Revolution Cafe Deth. Oh. My.

 


 

[1puttTUT]

I just got back from six days in Asheville. I just absolutely love the beer scene there! It's a must for any beer geek. The mountain views and golf don't hurt either...

 

 

[DrewBallin]

Oh yeah, 2019 CBS is on the shelves!!

[Hackattack1]

I think I am done with IPAs. I have a new favorite beer type: Saison. any Saison men or women out there?

found a great local place here in st. pete florida that has an amazing selection.

[Argonne69]

Flannel Buddies Imperial Stout, Goldwater Brewing, Scottsdale, AZ. Wonderful coffee flavor.

[doublepar93]

 

Java infused Cigar and a coffee stout make for a good combo.

[hammy83]

that will be the last year for CBS as they plan to focus on other things. From what I have heard sales are not great due to recent allegations regarding racism. They also got a letter asking them to stop using the Mountie on CBS. It will be interesting to see how Founders weather the storm.

If you ever get a chance, Nickelbrook Brewing out of Burlington Ontario makes some great aged stouts in bourbon barrels such as cafe el bastardo, kentucky bastard, winey bastard, cuvee and glory and gold. At their shop you can buy different years of some of these at a price.

[ode1]

That is disappointing re CBS.....my favorite of their barrel aged beers! I did not know about the racism claims, yikes.... hopefully they are able to do better in the future!

[doublepar93]

 

Really good Sessionable beer. Allagash has some solid offerings.

[1puttTUT]

New Belgium accumulation. Perfect ski hill beer ?

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

My wife picked up some bottles of Jager-aged Arrogant Bastard Ale that I cannot wait to tap into!

[Argonne69]

A wonderful Whiskey Del Bac barrel aged Mescalero del Bac imperial stout at 1912 Brewing Company in Tucson, AZ.

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

I'm not sure how much the racism issues factored into it - I've read some speculation that CBS and KBS just didn't sell well. You've gotta have inventory turnover, and CBS/KBS simply didn't move. Even in October/November of last year, you could still buy 2017 CBS. One of the local stores sold a combo pack for Christmas with 17, 18, and 19 CBS. I mean, a beer that costs $20 or more, and is only sold in 22oz bottles has a very limited market.

[1puttTUT]

I would buy 2017 CBS in a heartbeat if I could find it. The problem with 19/20 is that it's just not as good as it used to be.

[hammy83]

2018 and 2019 were too sweet. the 2017 was an iconic year for CBS.

I'm not sure about sales locally, but CBS and KBS are sold in many markets. I can confirm at least in the markets around me that there are a ton of people who would religiously purchase several cases of CBS and KBS when they were released who no longer purchase any because of the publicity of their "incidents". there are so many choices in my area for great barrel aged stouts, so if we have to choose and knowing the recent news... its no longer going to be a beer from founders. Founders even has a social media hashtag thats common in the craft brew scene and home brew groups now #****founders. So I think the recent events has impacted them especially when the craft beer market is as saturated as it is now giving consumers tons of options that were not available even 5 years ago.

 

[1puttTUT]

I completely agree. I'm in their backyard in Michigan and even locally we have so many smaller breweries here now making great BBA stouts that weren't available 5 years ago.

[hammy83]

I'm in Ontario. The LCBO and the Beer Store own nearly 100% of all alcohol sales in Ontario minus what local breweries sell through the front doors. The LCBO is the one bringing in founders products. The last 2 batches of CBS and KBS were slow to sell and at some stores were discounted to move. Combine that with the social media backlash and breweries such as Nickelbrook/GLB making top notch imperial stouts. hell even Lickinghole creek one lion is a decent stout at a decent price.

I do hope Founders can change and survive this. They can clearly produce top notch barrel aged stouts.

[1puttTUT]

Honestly, the biggest reason I don't buy more of their beer in general is that their IPA game isn't that strong compared to the local competition. Bell's, Oddside, Old Nation, Shorts, Big Lake just to name a few all have better options, and more options than Founders imo; and to me IPA's are more of a year round drinker to me than stouts are.

[PappyVanWinkle53]

 

Heady Topper.....so good!

[srooch2]

The gold standard. All beers after have tried to emulate this beer and in my opinion have failed and taken the "hazy" thing to an undrinkable level. What John Kimmich did there and what they went through to grow that brewery is an incredible story. It is a soft, well rounded, delicate beer that hits on all levels. They and hill farmstead produce the best IPA's in the country. Hill Farmstead even replicated Alchemist beers to a certain extent. And to be fair even alchemist barrowed from Greg Noonan who is really the originater of that style, but they put it on the map. Cheers

[PappyVanWinkle53]

Have you made your way to Other Half in Brooklyn, Equilibrium in Middletown, NY or Tree House in Charlton, MA?

[srooch2]

I have had tree house and other half, not equilibrium.

[Argonne69]

Thor's Smoked Imperial Stout from Hammerhead Brewing. It has a nice hot pepper kick.