How soon before Spieth drops out of the top 50

[Krt22]

His ball striking has not always been "on the lunatic fringe". His putter went on the fritz, but it's his ball striking that completely fell off last year. The statistics are far more telling than the handful of shots they show on TV

 

2015 SG Tee to Green-4th, SG Putting-9th

2016 SG Tee to Green-25th, SG Putting-2nd

2017 SG Tee to Green-2nd, SG Putting-48th

2018 SG Tee to Green-23rd , SG Putting-123rd

2019 SG tee to Green-157th , SG Putting-2nd

[Steele47]

I think Jordan's biggest asset is the fact that he's a feisty dude. When he hit that tee shot at The Open off the map landing near the Titleist truck I thought he was done. Especially with what happened at 12 at Augusta (I forget what year that was). Anyway, I believe he'll rise and fall a few more times before its over. He's fun to watch when he's in contention.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

I already posted his wins / 4 - 8 putting.... The conversation I was following was in relation to short putting 4 - 8..... You are just showing his aggregates.... Which doesn't tell a whole lot.

Everyone knows Spieth is as superior long putter one of the best on tour. It's been his STREAKY 4 - 8 that was in question, but if you compare to wins there is a VERY weak correlation.

[Krt22]

Which is far more important to actually doing well on tour.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Which is probably more important with amatures as well.... We should write a book

[Krt22]

It already exists, it's called Every Shot Counts. You should read it, you might learn a thing or two

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Klassy!

I can find out whatever I want from the data......

Besides isn't that the guy from Columbia University? He just measured golfers from 2 -3 clubs I believe.....

Yep Mark Broadie..... I read his white paper

Besides most of his insights were known's. The tee shot being the most critical, well no joke.... It initiates the hole why wouldn't it be? Why would a 4 footer be more important? Haha..... And how he excluded 3 footers on in, change the weighting of strokes per hole down to ~43% instead of ~57%...

Again this is common knowledge that has been proven out with elementary stats and a large data set.

[Valtiel]

Wow, quite the flip-flop between 2018-2019. Must be super frustrating feeling like you're playing whack-a-mole with your own game. That would certainly suggest that it IS in there though, he just needs to find it and/or get out of his own way.

[Krt22]

Clearly not so common since your assessment of his ball striking was completely wrong.

[Krt22]

Indeed. Just goes to show you need to do everything well if you want to (consistently) win on tour, but if your ball striking falls off you can go from superstar to journeyman over night

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Try reading again...... Your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired.

[Krt22]

Tell me more about those 4-8ft putts.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Keeping tossing out those aggregates and shows us how smart you are!

The reasoning behind the 4 - 8 was a discussion between Blade and some other poster.... I wanted to review and so I posted some data. You on the other hand did well...... errr pretty much nothing.

Site two common high level metrics

Reference a book.

Top notch work!

[Krt22]

keep on trolling, you won't be here much longer!

[Steele47]

I'd say some smooth jazz is in order.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

It's called debating and you clearly can't handle it. I have no problem taking a stance a posting data to either dispute or endorse...... You on the other hand....

[Paddy_2_Iron]

Indeed and a glass of wine.

[Valtiel]

Its these types of stats that separate the goods from the greats. The "goods" can win when all cylinders are firing relatively well, but the "greats" could still get it done even with chunks missing. Rory is a massive talent obviously, but take his elite driving down to average level and he seems to fade away. Same with Jordan, but take away his already average driving and the other elite elements seem to fade as well. It was like what Phil said (paraphrasing) "my iron game and putting can be elite, I just need the driver to be average and stop actively hurting me and I can win".

[Shilgy]

Since you looked it up did you skip other definitions?

 

...pleased, especially with oneself or one's merits, advantages, situation,

 

 

...contented to a fault with oneself or one's actions“he had become complacent after years of success”

 

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

No I didn’t. I don’t at all see a content guy out there. He’s almost unbearably frustrated in my eyes. A kind of banging ones head against a wall frustrated. I see zero contentment.

[bladehunter]

All I see from your stats is that his putting is now as good as it ever was. Which points right back to a ball striking issue.

 

Maybe you need to watch some of the fields twilights last gleaming at the hero , Australian open or east lake highlights and tell me how he blew away fields on the “ lunatic fringe “.

[Shilgy]

Would you consider Strokes gained Tee to Green be a good barometer of ball striking?

 

4-25-2-22. Those were his ranks for the years 2015-2018.

[Shilgy]

See post #100

 

Being complacent does not mean that he does not care. But it could hinder his preparation. On the PGA tour the margins are razor thin. A stroke a round takes you from 10th to 80th in scoring average(2019). Did you ever read Harvey Penick’s Little Red Book? He relates a story of Tom Kite and the Texas golf team when Kite was the tours #1 money winner. The college boys played a round with Kite and asked why he was #1 and they were likely to never get there. They felt they could do everything in golf as well as Kite. From putting to driving they were just as good. Kite told them that in every round they would have a shot or two-at least-where they did not give full attention and the shot would not be as good as it should have been. That would cost the 2-5 strokes per round.

 

Not being fully “present” due to something .....be it injury, marriage, or just subconsciously content with what he has already achieved can cost him precious strokes per round.

[bladehunter]

Nope. Haven’t read the little red book.

 

I’m not sure that guessing at what someone has subconsciously thought or not thought will get us .

 

I could agree with you , IF he’s subconsciously content ....but the evidence and frustrated actions say otherwise. I’d call Phil subconsciously content. He seems to be enjoying his failures. Jordan may jump off a cliff he’s so unhappy looking. I just see it as opposites.

 

But I’m not at all trying to really argue to the death with you. If you see that , fair enough. I just can’t get there with what I see.

[Krt22]

You have an interesting definition of debate. You essentially make a bunch of purely anecdotal assertions, are confronted with tangible opposing data, lash back with petty insults and pop shots the minute there is any sort of rebuttal, edit your response multiple times, and then pat yourself on the back. So far you have yet to formulate a single cohesive argument (data backed or otherwise).

This is my last response to you because it's abundantly clear you are nothing more than an inflammatory troll and are simply here to listen to yourself talk.

[OrangeGravy]

People who have never failed or experienced significant set backs, often have a very hard time digging themselves out the whole when they finally do fall in one. I don't know his history in this way but if he's experienced nothing but success from junior golf all the way to now, it could play a factor. The later in life (golf life in this instance) that first set back comes, the harder it is to handle mentally. Sometimes the shock of playing poorly for an extended stretch is difficult to stomach for someone that's always performed well. You have to be fully committed to making physical changes in any sport. If you're caught in a spiral of second guessing everything, it's impossible to be as committed as necessary to the changes you're trying to make.

[bladehunter]

Yep. Interesting point. I agree. That does make some sense.

[RareSight]

You’re forgetting one key factor, and that’s the Player is the CEO of their team and ultimately fully responsible for all key decisions & actions made. 

When the Player (CEO) and their team have an end of year meeting about goals and objectives for the upcoming year (which we know Spieth & his team do), Spieth & his team would have identified increasing distance & accuracy as two of their key goals, Spieth would have asked & listened to his hired swing coach Cameron’s plan detailing the required swing changes to obtain their new goals, and with Spieth’s blessing (once all risks have been weighed), collectively they would undertake this plan with eyes wide open and full commitment from all parties.

If down the line this new swing change plan Spieth agreed to undertake didn’t work (for whatever reason), then again as a team they would re-evaluate the plan (ranging from tweaking it to discarding it altogether) and re-commit as a team to this new plan. It’s not a blame game, as Spieth would have agreed and signed off knowing all the risks involved.

That’s why Spieth hasn’t left Cameron as Spieth (being the team’s CEO) agreed to it all and he knows he is ultimately fully responsible for whatever the results good or bad.

[RareSight]

I didn't realise just how far his tee to green game has declined. Shows just how vital tee to green is to results.

[bladehunter]

Yes. But no.

 

I agree thats how it works. Until it doesn’t.

at some point it goes on Cameron for having the flawed plan to get to the goal. Just like any corporate setting you describe. Poop eventually rolls downhill.

 

The swing change is a very modern idea that is very flawed when looked at logically. He’s added a larger arc to his path. Common sense tells anyone that very few players are successful with that. And almost all of those were born swinging that way , and didn’t change to do it.