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Brooks Koepka using Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero


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I think he was just speaking generally about a recent practice. The CK line was nicely separated between Pro and non-Pro, but other lines like the second generation +PLUS series, a big chunk of the Kuro Kage line's history (minus the XT and XD), and now the AV Blue have been following the more confusing "TX is the premium product and all other subflexes are the cheaper version" pattern. The same is true within Aldila which Mitsubishi now owns as well.

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Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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Exactly. People so disappointed they can't get tour serial number clubs. You can't get them because you're not on tour. Not even teaching pro on staff. Will you even hit a tour club better? Could they just be using a TC serial to track the tour clubs? Sure TC clubs are probably tested for tighter tolerances, but amateurs are not going to notice the 2 yards. If it's 10 or more performing worse, you're welcome to take it back for an exchange.

It's just a hobby if you really want tour issue clubs fit for you, then try to pass the PAT and become a teaching pro at least. I don't know if they get tour issue clubs, but at least something close.

Callaway Paradym TD 10* Ventus Red TR 5S

Titleist TSR3 13.5* 3 Wood Tour AD-IZ 6S

Titleist TSR3 19* hybrid Modus GOST S

Titleist TSR2 24* hybrid Modus GOST S

Callaway Paradym Hybrid 27* Ventus non Velocore S

Titleist T100 2023 6-PW KBS Tour V S

Titleist SM8 50, 56, 60

Scotty Cameron X7.5 CS

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Kuro Kage DC Line

Tensei AV line

I rest my case

Taylormade QI10LS 10.5 (@9.5) Fujikura Ventus Velocore Blue 6S (Testing Velocore + 6S)
Taylormade Stealth 2+ 15 (@14.50) Fujikura Motore Speeder 8.1S Tipped .5"
Callaway Apex "21" 19/3H Aldila Rogue Black TS95 Tipped .5"
Taylormade SLDR 4i DGSLS300S
Taylormade P750 7-PW P770 5i-6i DG AMT White S300
Taylormade MG2 52 DGTIS400, MG4TW 56/12 DGTIS400, & Tour Issued MG3 Hi Toe 60/09 DGTIS200 115
Scotty Cameron TeI3 Long Neck Newport 2 34" (34")
Bridgestone Tour B XS (Testing New TP5x)

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While I imagine some people do feel that way from a "fantasy" perspective, I think it is more a question of perceived value. When someone is shelling out $400+ on a club, they want to feel like they are getting their money's worth, and there is still that persistent perception that "the tour stuff is nothing like the retail stuff etc etc". Callaway did not do themselves any favors here either when a bunch of alternate diamond versions of the Epic Flash started popping up which likely felt a bit disingenuous to some people.

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Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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Why does it matter what people want to buy with their own money? In this day and age it’s mostly about knowing the exact specs of the head, and there are specific shape/size heads that were made for tour - again, why does it matter that people prefer a different look/sound/feel? Passing the PAT has nothing to with any of it.

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Out of curiosity, what is the difference in the TC club from a TA retail available club?

GHIN Index 12.9
LH Epic Flash Driver-LH, 10.5*, Project X EvenFlow Riptide 50 (Light)
LH Callaway Rogue 5-wood (18*), 7-wood (20*); Aldila Synergy 60-Reg
LH Callaway Rogue ST Pro 4-AW, Recoil Dart 75 F3
LH Cleveland RTX 50*, 54*, 58*
LH Odyssey Double Wide Stroke Lab Putter

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I have absolutely no problem with what people want to spend their money or how they want to spend it. It's the sense of entitlement that people have. Like Callaway or Taylormade or Titleist owe it to the masses to have the very same exact driver that a top 10 player in the world who's won 4 majors in 3 years. Same with the Shaft companies. The whole "what is DJ really playing in his driver because you need to sell me one" conversation. It's exhausting and I'll lay good money 99% of the folks that want one can't hit it anyways and then it shows up on BST with the headline "Come get Brook's Driver" with the details being "I gave it a go, this driver is a BEAST, it just doesn't fit my game" Yeah, no $h!t Sherlock but that person spent months badgering the boards about it... it's exhausting and waste of people's time who have to come on here and sift through this crap just to read the information they want.

Rant over, that felt good to get that off my chest.

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D - Ping G430 LST 9*, PX SB HZRDUS Smoke Green 60 6.5
3W - Titleist 915f 16.5 (set to 15.75), Aldila Rogue White 130 70x

5W - Titleist TS3 18*, PX LE HZRDUS Blue RDX PVD 80 6.5

4H - Titleist TS3 23 (set to 22), PX HZRDUS Smoke Black 85  6.5

5H - Titleist TS3 25 (set to 26), PX Evenflow White 95 6.5

6I - PW - Titleist '19 T100, Project X 6.0 Flighted
W - Titleist Vokey SM8 50F, 56S (bent to 55), 60 K, DG TI S400

P - Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5
B - Titleist AVX

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I completely agree with that, and i'm pretty sure I made that exact argument in one of the recent threads about the extra Titleist releases, but I think my initial point still stands. It stops being about performance and starts being about perceived product quality and marketing honesty. Some people aren't going to care about that, and if it performs then it performs. But others are going to feel slighted if they find out that all tour guys are playing a version that sounds better/different or has what could be considered a more pleasing head shape or whatever. I don't personally care about those things, but others will, fitting or not.

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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See Valtiels response above on why people are going to feel slighted. It’s similar to when the G400 Max was released a few months after Ping advertised the G400 line. Yes, there’s always going to be new releases, but once you get burned once, you may not be so willing to take a chance the next year and the company ends up cannibalizing its own product line. On a forum that is skewed almost completely toward equipment, you’re going to have different groups with different motivations and likes/dislikes for the equipment they use, and they’re going to want to discuss it with like-minded people. If you don’t want to read those opinions then just don’t read them, or put those folks on ignore.

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Valtiel & t4t3r, I think we're drawing a very thin red line here because I do agree with both of you. The side I'm disputing is how some folks think it's owed to them or they deserve this very specialized equipment and the information that comes with that specialized equipment. I don't think I need to hammer home more examples because I know that you gentlemen have been on here long enough to know the kind of person I'm talking about. And to your point t4t3r about ignoring posts, if I did that I probably wouldn't see 90% of the posts here... I'm here to see some cool stuff, get some information on things I CAN get my hands on and have some good discussions about golf in general. Not the babbling, entitlement I read on every other post in this sub forum. It's cool to see Brook's driver, not the 30 some posts of people who think they deserve to have one, demand to have one and have Callaway release every single spec of Brooks' said driver. IF it does get released, cool. But I'm not here demanding or feel I'm deserving of said information.

Now... Freddy Couples's bag or Migual Angel Jimenez's bag, I can definitely get behind checking those out! Stricker's bag was awesome!

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D - Ping G430 LST 9*, PX SB HZRDUS Smoke Green 60 6.5
3W - Titleist 915f 16.5 (set to 15.75), Aldila Rogue White 130 70x

5W - Titleist TS3 18*, PX LE HZRDUS Blue RDX PVD 80 6.5

4H - Titleist TS3 23 (set to 22), PX HZRDUS Smoke Black 85  6.5

5H - Titleist TS3 25 (set to 26), PX Evenflow White 95 6.5

6I - PW - Titleist '19 T100, Project X 6.0 Flighted
W - Titleist Vokey SM8 50F, 56S (bent to 55), 60 K, DG TI S400

P - Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5
B - Titleist AVX

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Where? I don't see it!

Srixon Z 785 9.5 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z F85 15 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z U85 18 Steelfiber i110 S
Srixon Z FORGED 3-9 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 46 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 Forged 50 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland RTX4 58 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft Premier 11S

Bettinardi QB6 DASS High Polish
Srixon ZStar XV Yellow

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Don't see any diamonds.

Srixon Z 785 9.5 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z F85 15 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z U85 18 Steelfiber i110 S
Srixon Z FORGED 3-9 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 46 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 Forged 50 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland RTX4 58 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft Premier 11S

Bettinardi QB6 DASS High Polish
Srixon ZStar XV Yellow

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4DA0UJ9ZSV2T.png

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

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Brooks was trying the Triple Diamond Maverik SZ but i'm hearing he will be in a SIM next tourney. Keep in mind the winter is their testing season so lots of guys trying different combo's.

Titleist TSR3 8* / Fuji Ventus Black TR 6X               

Titleist TSR2+ / Fuji Ventus Black TR 7X               

Callaway UW / Fuji Ventu Black 8X

Edel SMS iron 4-5 / DG TI X100 /////  SMS PRO irons 6-PW / DG TI X100

Edel SMS 50V, 54T, 60T / DG TI S400/ BGT ZNE 130

Edel PROTO




 

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Aha, now I see it

Srixon Z 785 9.5 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z F85 15 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z U85 18 Steelfiber i110 S
Srixon Z FORGED 3-9 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 46 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 Forged 50 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland RTX4 58 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft Premier 11S

Bettinardi QB6 DASS High Polish
Srixon ZStar XV Yellow

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is that m2 tour 3 wood ever leaving? Now that he has opened the floodgates in the woods..who knows.

Taylormade Stealth+ 10.5: Ventus Blue 6X
Taylormade Stealth+ 3-15.5: Ventus Blue 7X
Taylormade Stealth+ 5-19: MRC Tensei CK Pro Blue 80TX
Titleist T200 4: DG AMT X100
Titleist T100 5-PW: DG AMT X100
Titleist SM8 50, 54, 60: DG Tour Issue S400
Odyssey White Hot 7S 34" 

Grips Lamkin Full Cord; logo down 

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They do, and they’re absolutely right.

In the Hoofer
 

Callaway Paradym Ai Smoke 🔹🔹🔹 10.5° | Fujikura Ventus Blue 6-X
TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 15° | Mitsubishi TENSEI CK Pro White 70 S
TaylorMade SIM2 Ti 19° | Mitsubishi TENSEI CK Pro White 70 S

Mizuno Pro 221 4-PW | Project X Rifle 6.0

Titleist Vokey SM9 52°, 56°, 60° | Project X Rifle 6.0

Odyssey Ai-ONE Seven CH | KBS CT Tour
Titleist ProV1

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I get the feeling Brooks does not care one bit about any tournament that isn't a major, so he's just going to tinker around until its time to start fine tuning the bag for the Masters, which for him, could be like the week before.

Ai Smoke ♦️♦️♦️ 9* Ventus TR Blue 6x

Mizuno STG 15* Ventus Blue 7x

TSR3 18* Ventus TR Red 7x
TSR3 24* IZ 95x
Ping Blueprint S 5-PW $-Taper 120

PING S159 50, 55, 60h 
Phantom X 5

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I agree about it being a very thin line, and I agree with your premise here. We are not owed anything to a certain point IMO, and finding that point is tricky. If a pro needs something special/one-off and a few other pros end up wanting something similar, then cool, they should be able to request those things. Be it a slightly different paint line or maybe an internal CG adjustment to suit their ball flight preferences, or whatever. But to use the Epic Flash as an example, when you market your driver as being loaded with features that came from "tour feedback" only to see those features not only missing, but a completely different head (Triple Diamond) being used instead of the supposed "tour feedback" retail model, it leaves a bad taste. At that point it feels less like "oh the tour guys can get little special tweaks and thats cool" and more like "none of them wanted to play the model they are selling, what is wrong with it?". And maybe the answer is; nothing at all! But the optics definitely aren't great and I understand why people would be miffed.

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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That's Callaway and/or Taylormade for you. Great discussion guys!

D - Ping G430 LST 9*, PX SB HZRDUS Smoke Green 60 6.5
3W - Titleist 915f 16.5 (set to 15.75), Aldila Rogue White 130 70x

5W - Titleist TS3 18*, PX LE HZRDUS Blue RDX PVD 80 6.5

4H - Titleist TS3 23 (set to 22), PX HZRDUS Smoke Black 85  6.5

5H - Titleist TS3 25 (set to 26), PX Evenflow White 95 6.5

6I - PW - Titleist '19 T100, Project X 6.0 Flighted
W - Titleist Vokey SM8 50F, 56S (bent to 55), 60 K, DG TI S400

P - Scotty Cameron Phantom 5.5
B - Titleist AVX

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On the same token, TM is talking out both sides of their mouth with their products.

They say "Yeah, tour players use the same stuff!" but then admit they do the special logo'd heads which go through 'additional QC' for weight and COR and etc. Although its not a different design, its basically a VW for the masses and Audi for the tour.

Now TM is doing it with their SIM hybrid. "Yeah uhhh...we didn't expect anyone on tour to like it, so now we're making a new model jut for them with a longer hosel, different weighting, and additional COR and QC" - but thats tour only.

Cally does additional models for some players altogether, but its hardly still just Cally doing it in this day and age.

PRDYMTC TOUR  9.8° + CQ6 / MVRKTC 15° + UB6 / MVRKTC 18° + UB8 G430 26°@25+ IZ95 / FRGD TEC5-G + MODUS115 / MD5TC / SPDR EXTC + GPS

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Personally I think Taylormade has gotten better with this. Back in the 282/Superquad/etc days there seemed to be many more tour-only versions whereas the last few years I think they've toned it down. The conforming list is really all the evidence you need - right now, for example, there's 11 different right-handed Mavrik heads on the list (each head with v1/v2/v3, Max Tour, Sub-Zero Tour, 440, etc) while there are only 3 Taylormade heads just like retail (SIM, SIM Max, Max-D). We saw the same with Rogue (Sub Zero V, 440) and Epic Flash (diamond). I don't doubt that maybe some of these were prototypes and maybe aren't in play at all. Much of the Taylormade tour issue equipment recently has mostly amounted to spec'd heads that are otherwise the same (certainly with some exceptions).

This isn't intended to attack any company in particular because the competition is good for everyone especially the consumer, and it's also great to have so many amazing choices, but to echo previous posts, there's just a slippery slope with how many non-retail heads you can see in the hands of folks who move the equipment needle before discerning golfers will start to feel like we're getting the leftovers.

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The use of AI allows Callaway to create the many versions of the Maverik to fit a player. I would expect even more versions in next years release to the updated Epic line. If i were them i would do the exact same thing. Why wouldn't you make a different version to suit a style of player instead of lose that player to a competitor?

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Titleist TSR3 8* / Fuji Ventus Black TR 6X               

Titleist TSR2+ / Fuji Ventus Black TR 7X               

Callaway UW / Fuji Ventu Black 8X

Edel SMS iron 4-5 / DG TI X100 /////  SMS PRO irons 6-PW / DG TI X100

Edel SMS 50V, 54T, 60T / DG TI S400/ BGT ZNE 130

Edel PROTO




 

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