Swingweight 101 - all the same weight or progressive?

[wcdixon]

Hi all...realize this is mostly a personal preference to-each-their-own sort of thing, but still learning about clubs and shafts and new tech and am just curious.

Picked up a like-new set of Rogue pro irons...5-PW. They'd been reshafted with UST Recoil 760 F3 and regripped with Tour Velvet Midsize grips. Very nice sticks and looking forward to getting to know them. The only thing was they 1) all felt a little light and 2) the shaft lengths were standard and the swingweights were all in same ballpark between C7 - 5 iron up to C8 1/2 - PW however the 7 and 8 iron were both 1 SW point lower than the 6 iron. It wasn't a huge difference but noticeable...so I started adding some lead tape.

Question 1: is it better or safer to get all the clubs to a matching swingweight? C9 or D0? Or is this always a personal preference thing. I can't find anything written explaining why all irons with the same swingweight is a good thing...other than it seeming to be an industry standard.

Question 2: I chose to add lead tape to the irons to make them mini-progressive I suppose haha - now go from C8 1/2 with 5 iron up to D0 with PW. They feel a little heftier and hit alright...but have I created enough of an effective 'progression'? Is there like a formula - 1/2 a swingweight point increase between irons for example - that produces a better or more effective result. And if so I'd have to add a lot more lead tape to the higher irons...is there such a thing as 'too much lead tape'?

Apologies if this has all been already discussed and written about on here ad nauseum - please direct me to any discussion thread links if so. Cheers.

[Valtiel]

There has been a lot of discussion on the topic so I recommend searching for posts about progressive swing weights and MOI matching, but to answer the questions specifically:

1) Not better or "safer" at all, definitely personal preference. All clubs being roughly the same swing weight is kind of an old "standard" that some people like, but many find to be a bit imbalanced. The bottom line is that it is easier to manufacture this way while not being terribly offensive.

2) What you have done there is taken a small step towards a poor man's MOI matching setup. With shaft and grip weight all being equal, a swing weight matched set will feel heavier as the irons get longer, so incrementally increasing the weight of the irons as they get shorter is a way to balance this. Typically you start by finding a comfortable weight/heft for your long iron of choice and then build up from there as the club gets shorter. There are many formulas you can work off of here, I believe it is somewhere around ~0.75 swing weight points for each club with constant weight shafts with a standard 1/2" gap, so you would go C8.5 with your 5-iron -> C9.25 with your 6i -> D0 with your 7i etc etc etc.

So obviously your slope is much more gradual then this, but that is fine! It is all about feel and I recommend experimenting without measuring for awhile to see where your feel takes you. My setup is a more standard progressive one with 3/8" gaps between clubs. I start at around D2.5 with my 3i and progress linearly to around D7 in my PW.

[Howard_Jones]

Just a small correction, when we use the SW scale to get as close to flat MOI as possible, the progression is 1.33 SWP pr inch, so in a set with the classic 4/8" between clubs "the correct formula" becomes

1.33 / 8 (8 x 1/8 in 1 inch) x 4 = 0.66 and if we build the set to 3/8" between clubs, the formula becomes 1.33/8 x 3 = 0.49 SWP between clubs, and if we wants to include the PW and GW who often is only 2/8" shorter than the #9, the formula is 1.33/8 x 2 = 0.33 SWP from club to club.

 

[wcdixon]

Thanks Valtiel - very helpful and encouraging information

[wcdixon]

Thanks Howard....appreciated. And would I be correct in thinking that there's no such thing as 'too much' lead tape I could add to higher irons to match your formula as described (presuming they still feel okay)?

[Valtiel]

Ah thank you for the correction Howard, I was just leaving my house and should have googled that before posting.
And no problem @wcdixon! Howard's generous sharing of information on the topic was what lead me down the same road you're starting on and it definitely helped me a great deal once I found my comfort zone. Feel free to use lots of lead tape! If you find yourself having to add extremely large amounts to get to your comfort zone then it may be worth considering heavier shafts. As static club weight increases, lower swingweights are necessary to achieve the same feeling of heft. Some people can be sensitive to that change in balance however, so finding your sweet spot there is the next step.

[Howard_Jones]

LOL...let me say it this way, if we play a thin blade type iron, but they look like game improvement hybrids from address because of lead tape, we have stretched it a bit to far IMO

Lead tape will be the preferred way to figure out how much added weight thats needed (trial and error testing), but we always have the option of using tip weight or tungsten power, or a combination of all 3 in extreme cases.