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Cheating


leezer99

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The cheating needs to stop. I am so over it and the kids that are pressured to fudge scores. I get that it's the responsibility of the group but if a kid asks another kid what they got and they give an incorrect score it's not because they can't count. If kids are leaving the sport this is just one of the many reasons.

There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.
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Not desert shootout just a local event. Kid my son was playing with had multiple double bogies but there were none on the card after they signed and he ended up winning. Then a well known instructor posted on IG about him winning so I texted him saying, "your next lesson with (kids name) should be on how to count".

There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.
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It is like grades. If you don't get an "A", you've failed. My son called a penalty on himself during a tournament...no one but him saw the infraction...and his coach was PO'd at him.

Cheating is more than just about a golf score, it can seep into other areas of their lives. It seems integrity wasn't what it once was, and there are some who are willing to give it up rather cheaply.

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I take it your kid wasn't the marker for the cheater? Obviously, we know that the cheating will eventually catch up with them. It certainly sucks to have to deal with that garbage. Also, It's definitely difficult for the juniors to have to keep track of other kid's scores while maintaining their focus on their own game. In the two JGANC events that we have played, they actually send out a single marker person for all players in the group.

It's no fun when the rabbit's got the gun.

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Yep, there is so much pressure nowadays . They get a dopamine boost every time they brag about “doing well” on social media or Facebook. Actually all this social media stuff and Facebook is kind of why we are in trouble as a culture. But I’m sure smart PHDs are trying to figure it out. They just have a really uphill battle vs all the money out there who are in the business of handing out the “Good Feelings”.

just tell your son to be honest to himself and it will serve him well in life. Even if we are living in an era where most lie to themselves. When he plays in a real tourney and officials are watching, your son will soar and the others will falter.

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Witnessed many cheating occasions. The player who tried to claim 14 less strokes through 13 holes, my daughter called the opponent out every time. The opponent finally started reporting honest scores. The parent who would walk back and forth ,across the fringe of the green, in the through line while players were putting. Then, on the next tee make all sorts of noises during everyone’s backswing (a parent did call her out on this one). A top 50 player not count a swing and a miss in match play, turned the match around. Family is a prominent golfing family, everyone witnessed it. Parents posting swing by swing updates to social media. After the match one of the family members, a college coach, let me know they agreed my child deserved the eventual win.

These are the big ones I’m aware of.

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@leezer99 I’ve seen the sort of thing happen a lot and it does need to stop. For some reason the laws of physics that apply to golf do not to some players. Everyone knows who the cheaters are I mean when you drive 150 yards it is physically impossible to par the majority of holes at 6000 yards.
‘The real issue is you need to do better more national tournaments with a lot officials and ones that involve more travel with older kids. It makes a huge difference the honest kids do better and you see better results. Those kids who cheat hate doing those tournaments because they get DQ. I seen more then one this weekend get what they deserve.
some the better events are state golf associations and National tours like HJGT as well as regional ones like Peggy Kirk for girls. The worst seem to be local us kids and local pga sections.

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This is easier said then done. So many officials just cave and tell the disagreeing player to just sign the card. So nothing happens. The problem is just some tours don’t care about the scores and cheating. In some cases they even promote the cheaters on their websites so they don’t care to admonish them. Best to not do those ones.

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Worst I’ve ever seen is parent/caddy keeping score for kid and intentionally writing down wrong scores so when two players go over scorecards at the end, scores are wrong and traditionally better player DQ’d so their kid could win... can’t prove it but you don’t mess up someone else’s score multiple times

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Please don't take this the wrong way as I don't normally stray into this area of the boards, and don't take this as a criticism of you or your son. I happened to see this thread this morning and given the talk of cheating in other sports currently decided to have a look. IMO, honesty is always first and foremost the responsibility of the player, the individual, but when they fail to do so their playing partners are all that's left to hold them accountable, to protect the field. And I say this coming from experience as I've been in this group before. Early in my golf career a playing partner won an event with a score I later knew wasn't right. I didn't hold his card though and I wasn't paying attention to what he was putting himself down for, and the person who held his card did didn't call him out on it. Now it's difficult to keep tabs on everybody in your group all the time, but from then on I made a habit to keep an eye on what others were doing, and to ask out scores on the next tee box. It's a tough thing for a younger kid to do, but if you want things to be honest you've got to hold them accountable. Perhaps this is a good learning opportunity for your son to do the same. It stinks because you can't watch everybody all the time, but if word starts getting round that kids are getting caught then they'll probably fear cheating more than before.

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Stick to your convictions. My son is transferring high schools because of cheating, vaping, drug use within the golf team and it is allowed to go on by Coaches that are PGA Professionals.. Not a good look.

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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So much of this starts with the parents as opposed to the kids. It has to be a very small percentage of kids that are predisposed to cheating, it's more of a learned/taught behavior. I'll never forget my Dad waking me up at 11PM because he heard I challenged an umpire's decision on a rule during a baseball game. 50 years later and I remember that moment like it was yesterday. Not to go all old school but parents of days of yore were much tougher on everything...and I appreciate that they were a great example to follow.

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Everything today is about protecting the kid rather than punishing the kids. Even in just 3 years since my daughter graduated high school things have changed drastically. Public schools are a disaster in most cases anymore. It goes further than just golf.

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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Parents living vicariously through their children...as if they live and die by how well their child does instead of simply accepting what the child can and cannot do while offering encouragement. What life lessons are these children learning? What about honor and integrity? What about walking off the 18th green knowing you gave it your best shot, despite the results, as opposed to cheating and walking off the 18th green knowing your score does not reflect reality.

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Love that! Brings back a good memory of a similar but somewhat opposite story . . . 9th grade spring - a teacher (incidentally his son was one of Iowa's better golfers ever and became a good instructor and flirted with the Tour back in the 60s) who was a super nice and older gentleman had been to the senior league baseball games on Sunday and after his class on Monday had me and another kid stay for a minute - he pulls out a baseball rule book and very nicely let the two of us know that we were way too smart to be playing and not know the rules our sport because the application of a particular rule (can't remember which one) would have made a difference in our game. He was right, ump got it wrong, coaches didn't notice (one of whom was my dad, lol) but he was letting us know we needed to take responsibility for knowing the game we were playing. Made a big impression on me, but he was also the kind of quiet, soft spoken and intelligent person that treated kids with respect and commanded it at the same time.

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I taught and coached High school Basketball for 10 years. I would rather lose with great kids than win with assholes.

 

The thing is, these coaches are completely oblivious to the problems because they are off campus coaches.

 

10 years ago preventive measures were taken to make sure stuff like happened didn't happened. Today it is let the kids do whatever and whatever happens will react after the fact.

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I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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I think you just have to call it out when they say the incorrect score.

 

Never say "Did you get a par?' to another player. Kids will answer "Uh, Huh. Yeah. Yes. Yep." thinking their scorer wasn't paying attention. Ask them "What did you have on that hole?'. They need to give a number and if you are unsure it is correct you need to go back and count the strokes with them.

 

If I get a minute I will PM you the entire story of the cheating incident. It blew my mind and still does of how the coach handled it.

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

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