Obee's Putting Improvement Thread

[DLev45]

My inspiration was a recent round where I shot 79(+7) with 11/18 GIRs, but really didn't make anything.

I had 34 putts with only 38 feet of makes. I was 2/7 on makes from 5-10ft and 1/4 from 10-15ft and my misses were mostly right, which is the norm.

Conventional wisdom says that face-balanced putters tend to stay more square/open as opposed to toe-hang, so I was ready to change putters. Never dawned on me that the larger diameter putter grip could delay release in the same manner as going to a midsize/jumbo on a full club.

Instead of a couple hundred dollars, I spent $15, and I have never felt better about my putting than I have on the practice green since the change.

[pappaf2]

I have to do something about my putting. I had 43 putts yesterday with 8 three putts.

https://media.giphy.com/media/XuLXZa0PJNiV2/giphy.gif

[CBJ]

I would also say, make sure your putter grip is on straight, you would be surprised how many putters come from OEM’s that are crooked and how many people who grip clubs, cant put on a putter grip square/straight.

[Yuck]

Glory is short lived. 40 putt 78 today. 3 three putts, one four putt from 18 feet. With the exception of a 15 foot snake, I missed every putt longer then 2.5 feet today.

[DLev45]

I feel you, @Yuck. I have seen a recent good run of ball striking form the past 2 weeks where I have shot 79/78, but I haven't really made anything.
Over that span:
5/15 makes from 5-10ft
1/6 from 11-15ft
0/10 from 16-20ft.
Maybe my expectations are what is out of whack, but I feel like I should be making more than 6/31 from the 5-20ft range. I'm thinking of giving Aimpoint Express a try to see if it helps.
On the bright side, only 5 times out of those 36 holes has my 2nd putt been greater than 4ft, so I feel like I'm lagging it alright. Just need some more to fall.

[wagolfer7]

@Yuck @DLev45 - Just a thought. Check how you grip the putter. My son and I were putting yesterday and he couldn't make a 3 foot straight putt. So I asked him to the do the check-list that we discussed before.
Grip - if you grip the club and squeeze a little, does the face turn? If you see that face twist quite a bit, by just squeezing your hands, that shows you have a very poor grip, for what you are trying to do. He was gripping it in the fingers some and that was causing the face to close very easily. We got the grip back more in his lifeline and boom 3 footers going right in again.
The grip is completely different in the putter as opposed to swinging. You want in more in the palms and right in the lifeline of your hands. It feels like a crazy weak grip, but positioning the grip in that area, keeps the head steady, so it doesn't open and close so easily.
Just something I don't see discussed too often. It's also one reason I think we see more left hand low and claw grips recently. Those grips are the same concept. Keeps the head a lot more stable and less rotation, among other things.

[D0ch0l1d4y]

Can confirm. I use an overlap grip for non-putting strokes.

I used to use the same grip, but a reverse overlap (pinky over pointer, vs pointer over pinky - right hand golfer)

My miss was ALWAYS a pull and I tested based on something similar to @wagolfer7 comments above. Experimented with LHL, but couldn't get a consistent strike. After noticing guys like Fowler on TV, it looked like their hands were closer together than mine - so I tried a double reverse overlap (pinky over middle, ring over pointer) and EVERYTHING just worked better. It changed where the grip sat in my hands (more in the lifeline) and it just works.

Granted it's all been mat work and one session on a bumpy green - but I'm excited to play once the weather and courses are playable.

[nitram]

Solid Gold Sir

[Obee]

One thing I never mentioned to anyone in this thread: Part of my putting improvement also included a major grip change (besides going to the claw). I grip the putter deep in the palm of my left hand. There top hand seems much less prone to twitching or "hitting" when you do that. Took a while to get used to, but it was a huge factor for me.

[ChaosTheory]

That has helped me a lot too. Assuming we are talking about a similar grip. I have the thumb pad sitting on top of the shaft. I call it having the handle "high" in the hand. I guess it's in the lifeline.

[tipuga93]

Thought I'd detail a couple of things I've done to improve my putting.

For context, currently a 3.7 that's been as low as a 2 in the past when I got hot with the putter. Overall, I've always been very inconsistent week in and week out, usually due to pulls and pushes routinely creeping in my stroke. I've always putted with a standard overlap grip and have used an Odyssey Black Series i #6 blade since I was 16(26 now). I went left hand low for a couple of seasons in high school but could never get over the awkward feeling of it. I'm also a lefty playing right handed. I am pretty solid tee-to-green, my short game could be better but overall I keep the ball in play and hit a decent amount of greens, but never have been one to really make a lot of birdies unless I am hitting it really close all day. Also, some of the better putting days I can attribute to confidence, as there has been days where the hole looked 6 feet wide to me and others where it looked 6 mm wide.

After a few weeks of very inconsistent putting and a round of 74 where I hit 17 greens, I had enough. Although trying to buy a putting stroke(LOL!) is never great advice, I found a great deal on a Rife Barbados mallet on eBay and pulled the trigger. I used my standard overlap grip and overall I may have made a couple more short putts but no notable improvement otherwise. Enter, my holy grail!

After my second 3 putt in 3 holes a couple of weeks ago, I was so frustrated that I went back to left hand low for the rest of the round. Boom, instantly I could tell a difference in how the ball was rolling. I remembered this thread and reading Obee talk about figuring out how to get the proper roll on the ball and committing to a method that gets that done. Well, since then I have spent a lot of time on the practice green and played a few rounds with my new grip/stroke and I couldn't be more satisfied with how I'm putting. I basically have maintained my same routine and step up to the ball with an overlap grip and then just swap my hands when I'm comfortable and from there it's just a matter of rocking my shoulders and I can see the alignment mark on the ball roll perfectly end over end pretty much every time. My last three rounds have been 74, 73, 73 that have been nothing special ball striking wise but have not 3 putted one time and I've made 10 birdies in that 3 round stretch. It is just so satisfying to watch the ball roll end over end so perfectly even on missed putts.

In short, I have finally found the method that works for me that puts the proper roll on the ball. I have spent a few days working on it and now my confidence is through the roof. Once I've picked my line and set my ball down using the alignment mark, the work is done, I just have to rock my shoulders. It still feels really awkward to me and I keep expecting to push or pull one of these short putts when I'm standing over it but as long as I keep that thought of rocking my left shoulder back and through, the outcome has been good most of the time.

[Obee]

Dude! I'm tearing up over here!! That is so great to hear!! That's why I started this thread!!!

[tipuga93]

It's crazy, I spend a lot of time reading various threads in this forum and I will remember a certain phrase or tip when I am out on the course, but in particular I have spent a lot of time reading this thread and being frustrated hitting putts that missed my target line by a wide margin due to poor strokes. The day I went back to left hand low I went to the practice green after the round and stayed about an hour hitting putts of various lengths just focusing on putting a good roll on it, making sure I could see the words roll end over end. Mostly because I remembered this thread and "committing" to rolling it end over end every time without regard for the outcome.

The real test for me will be under the gun under tournament pressure...I have been playing in a couple of money games but I am really excited to see how my stroke holds up in the Mid-Am and State-Am qualifiers I am playing in soon.

[Ezgolfer]

One old thought which revived my putting this season

Watch the ball roll on a spot 4 inches in front of the ball . This has taken away stroke mechanics out of my head and intermittent peaking at the putterhead at the start of backswing.

 

[nitram]

Guerin Rife would be proud as that was his slogan, "end over end over end..."

[pappaf2]

@Obee and others who are working on making the ball roll end over end. This might be a little more on the mentality / mindset side of things. When you are playing a round of golf are you playing with a ball that has the line drawn all the way around? If so do you dissociate hitting a good putt from a putt that goes in the hole? For instance if you hit a putt where the line rolls perfectly but it doesn't go in the hole do you consider it a good putt? Is your only intent during a round to try and roll the ball end over end with minimal wobble? (obviously you want to make the putt and you pick a line as well)

[tipuga93]

My mindset overall right now is just to focus on whether I hit a good putt, and not the outcome. I am pleased if I hit a good putt and it doesn't go in, because I know I have removed a variable(stroke) from the equation and the reason it didn't go in was either my speed or line or a combination of both. I trust my green reading ability enough right now to believe that if I continue to roll it end over end I will make more putts.

I just use whatever line is placed on the ball by the manufacturer. I find the line all the way around the ball too visually distracting for me.

[Forged4ever]

Hey Brother, I hope all’s well and your back is ok and you’re Playing pain free!!

 

I heard that Danno’s flat stick was on ?? this morning!!

 

Thats some sick putting, lolol!!

 

I hope that you all have a great time, hit a ton of great shots, make some great memories and Danno’s ball striking matches his putting, lol

 

That’d be a course record kinda round, lol

 

Maddie sends hugs & kisses?? though I’m just sending a Bro-hug and fist bump ??, lolol

 

Enjoy the week?

Richard

[Yuck]

Bingo! Three putts on my rug is all it took to get my hopes up again. I will report back if it worked.

[DLev45]

Got fit today on the SAM Putt Lab for the first time. Attached if anyone has any feedback based on the data. I'm actually more consistent than I thought I would be.

Fitter took the lie angle from 70 to 73 degrees and loft from 3 to 4 degrees. My path is decent going back and I am less than 0.5 degrees open at impact. Contact in the sweet spot.

I do drag the putter way left on the follow-through. I have always known I have a cut stroke, and the data confirms it. Not sure how much of it is something to worry about given the impact conditions, versus how much of it is just me opening my shoulders and looking up post-impact to see where the putt is headed.

 

 

 

 

[DLev45]

Ended up with 34 putts this weekend off 10 GIR in route to an 80 and low-net finish at our club's MGA kickoff tournament. This was post SAM-fitting adjustments above.

I had 4 one-putts and 2 three-putts, but was pleased overall because it was tough out there. There was a ton of wind and the greens were playing fast with the pins in difficult places. Out of 40 golfers, the low gross was 75 and there were only 6 rounds in the 70s. I was the C player in our foursome, and actually posted the lowest gross score. Our reigning club champion was our foursome's A player, and he shot 82!

Certainly felt more confident after the SAM fitting and adjustments.

Highlights:

25-foot for birdie - made (uphill, 2.5% slope, left-to-right) - SG: +0.9355-foot double breaker for birdie over a hump - burned the edge and lagged to 2 feet for par (1st two thirds uphill 2.5% L-R, last third downhill 3% R-L) - SG: +0.1850-foot double breaker for birdie over a hump - lagged to 18 inches for par (1st third uphill 3% L-R, last two thirds 5%!!!! R-L) - SG: +0.14Lowlight: 6-foot par putt (extreme downhill, 2% slope L-R), missed low and rolled 10 feet past. Couldn't stop it. Missed the come-backer for bogey. SG: -1.27 (Ouch!)

11/11 on makes from 0-4ft

5/10 from 5-8ft

1/4 from 9-15ft

1/6 from 16-30ft

0/3 from 30ft+, but only one 3-putt.

 

[wagolfer7]

@DLev45 - Looking at your SAM data. You look pretty good. However - that swing path is an absolute killer. And something I would focus 100% on.
It looks like you have the right follow through motion, but your back stroke is off. Definitely could be an open stance / shoulders, that would start you outside and coming in. Hard to say without seeing video. I would almost guess you are too close to the ball or postured in a way that you aren't leaving yourself any room. Often times an outside back stroke happens when we don't have the option to come inside because of how we are positioned. With a blade though, it's the same as the swing. You must hit it from the inside. Coming from the outside, is just simply a killer in my opinion in putting.
Also another thing I take form the SAM data is your tempo. Not sure if it's an error, but your follow through time is really long compared to the other times. Either your follow through is too long - or your decelerate through. I would guess it's the first, since the rest of your stroke seems pretty solid. If the follow-through is too long, you are probably letting your arms / shoulders / hands outrun the core.
Seems like you putted well though in your first post SAM round. Take it or leave it on the advice. Just hope you improve and enjoy the game.

[DLev45]

I certainly appreciate the feedback.

I'm using a face balanced mallet (Odyssey O-Works #7), not a blade.

I am certainly outside-in on the path. I am 0.3 degrees open at impact with a face/path ratio of 0.8 degrees open, so if I am extrapolating the data correctly, that means my path is 0.5 degrees left at impact.

As for the forward swing, I think I skewed the data. My back swing was 682 ms, and forward swing to impact was 245 ms. So 2.79:1 tempo. But I didn't realize until looking at the data that I was turning my shoulders and head (and entire body, frankly) towards the hole to watch the roll of the ball post-impact to see if I made the putt.

Likewise, the Movement Dynamics showed that my forward swing speed from 0-245 ms (impact) and through about 450-500 ms remained fairly linear, and then takes a dive from there until 800 ms. You see the same thing in my Path Top View. If you were to cut off my forward swing path arc at the same length of my back swing, while its still outside-in, it's not as horrendous as it looks when I dive WAY back inside turning my whole body to watch the putt roll. I am using this as motivation to try to make a concerted effort to keep my head down and stop the forward stroke before I come up out of the putt to watch it. It made me realize that I didn't really have an END to my forward stroke.

It looks like this:

Instead of this:

 

[Krt22]

Still trying to break into the 20s putting. Scared the hole 5-6 times, had one 180 lip out, and one pretty bad 3-jack (somehow left the first putt ~10ft short) for 30 putts. If my short game wasn't so bad I think I'd be there.

[wagolfer7]

 

What kind of neck do you have? Plumber's, Double or Slant?

Even with a mallet of any of the necks above, that follow through path is a killer.

[DLev45]

Double bend. Half offset.

[nitram]

@ DLEV45. Baby steps brother. You have a pretty good thing going for you and a helluva first round after gaining some critical knowledge.

[Myherobobhope]

Ha... My name is MyHeroBobHope and I'm a shitty putter.

The first step is admitting that I'm powerless over my putting... wait... no I'm not... This season I'm actually getting serious about putting.

My first step this season is to work on speed control. Need to get confident in how far putts roll and just get into a routine where I'm not blowing putts by the hole... that's a major source of three putts for me... It's a combination of practice and making sure my fundamentals are solid. From there, I can improve my reads and direction and hopefully go from a bad putter to a good putter. It's one of the main things killing my scores right now.The Stroke: I've taken a couple of lessons and done too much reading on this... I've got a SuperStroke grip and play a "regular" grip... I'm working on hands forward and using more a piston motion with my right hand to power through the ball. My direction is significantly better and my putts have been consistent thus far (consistently short in my last round, but I'm a work in progress)The Practice: Purchased a PuttOut plastic thingy for my basement and try to work on my stroke at night while my daughter watches a show before bed... I try not to get distracted by My Little Pony... also working in more time on the putting green at the course, but the weather has just turned. I've got some drills I want to try (ladder drills, mostly... but also more pressure putting stuff) and I need to stay focused on my new stroke.

I like the new GHIN app and will be tracking my stats as much as possible during the season... I'm also working on my short game to get myself CLOSER to the hole, which should help me lower my stroke count.

[Obee]

This is an official OBEE PUTTING UPDATE! ;-)

Was putting kinda "meh" for a while (Just over 30 putts per round for about 10 rounds, but back-to-back rounds of 33, 34 putts), but I was really having trouble adapting to the massive green speed changes in SoCal this time of year. Certain courses that "push" their poa greens this time of year can get them to 13+, while others are content to let them stay long and they run 9ish. My (new) home course (Victoria Club) is 9ish, but my old home course (Bear Creek) is 11 to 13.5 this time of year.

To add to the difficulty posed by switching back and forth on greens with a 4+ foot difference in speed one day to the next, I had also taken to "self-adjusting" my putters by the tried-and-true method of stepping on the face of my putter and bending it to be more or less upright.

What I didn't realize was that, even if I got the uprightness adjusted to where I wanted it, I was inadvertently adjusting the loft of the putter also. DOH!

So you know what that means!

Time to buy a new putter!!!

Valor 400 Counter BalancedThe Sigma 2 Valor 400 is the highest-MOI Sigma 2 putter model to date. The counter-balanced mallet is engineered with a 400-gram head and custom built with a 15" grip and a 38" shaft with 50 grams added to the butt end to promote a stable, pendulum-style motion that takes the wrists out of the stroke.

Well, let me just tell you did that every do the trick. I have always, always loved heavy, counter-balanced putters, but I had somehow forgotten how much I loved them after I went to my recent Odyssey "Stroke-Lab Double-Wide" putter, which I loved for a while.

My previous 38" counter-balanced putter was the old Odyssey "Tank" 1W and before I had that, I had one of the 38" TaylorMade jobbers. Loved that one, too.

But I went away from the extra length when I fell in love with the Stroke Lab.

Saturday at Bear Creek with greens running 11.5ish (yes, we are still playing, but with NO FLAGS, but a pin shit): 25 putts

1) 4-foot bogey save

2) 12-foot birdie

3) 4-foot par save

4) 2-putt from 70-feet with a 5-foot par save

5) 2-putt from 50-feet with a 6-foot par save

6) 5-foot par save out of the barranca

7) 5-foot par save

8) Tap-in par save

9) 2-putts from 45 feet

10) Missed 12-foot birdie

11) Birdie tap-in

12) 2-putts for par from 35 feet

13) Tap-in par save

14) 5-foot par save

15) 2-putts from 10 feet for par

16) Super-tough 2-putt. Make a 5-foot for par save.

17) 2-putts from 14 feet for par

18) 2-putts from 30 feet for par with a 3-foot par save

25 putts

Next Round:

Victoria Club with greens running 8.5 (recently punched and sanded)

1) 2-putt par. Tap-in

2) 1-putt par. Tap-in

3) 1-putt par. Tap-in

4) 20' birdie make

5) 1' birdie make

6) 1 putt par. Tap-in

7) 2 putt par from 30'

8) 28' birdie

9) 2 putt par from 30'

10) 2 putt par from 40'

11) 2 putt par from 20'

12) Chip-in par

13) 5' par save

14) 6' par save

15) 5' birdie

16) 2 putts from 45'

17) 2 putts from 18' for par

18) Tap-in for par.

24 putts.

Averaged 24.5 putts per round over two rounds on wildly different green speeds, types.

I think I have found my "gamer" for when tournaments are happening again, ladies and gentlemen. :-)

 

 

 

 

[hoselpalooza]

honest question: are you getting paid for this recommendation? because you should be. :)