Frequency machine CPM or Frequency Profiling Analyser

[Biggie68]

Hello how are you guys?

Im about to buy a CPM machine to build sets frequency matched (CPM) but (I dont know if its allowed to put some other website link so sorry in advance) the guy who sel this stuff told me that is a new machine works better and the frequency analyzer will be discontinued , so I dont know what to do

what do you know about golfmechanix stuff?

I think the Optometrix Frequency Analyser https://www.golfmechanix.com/src/pdf/030225-HD.pdf

or

Pneumatic Reference Analyser https://www.golfmechanix.com/src/pdf/030125-HD.pdf

 

let me know what is the best to buy, or if you know an other model from other brand or DIY stuff I take all advices

thanks a lot

peace from france

[bk12]

The 2nd will be much more versatile, and should be as accurate. This was discussed at length in a thread here within the last few weeks-check it out.

[Biggie68]

thanks

[Howard_Jones]

Are you a professional club maker, or a hobbyist?

What shaft models is relevant for you to match?

CPM matching is a large can of worms with way more myths and misunderstanding than knowledge, and so far more shafts has been destroyed than improved this way because the user dont understand what he is doing and trust the instrument to guide him right but it wont.

CPM matching is a invention from Brunswick, later Royal Precision, but most is not aware of that even RIFLE FCM where this comes from is "built better" without a instrument like this, but the instrument itself can be very useful if we know what it can do for us, so for professionals and quality control of shafts its a must, for flex matching only if its used correct.

[Biggie68]

Hello, thanks for answer me I appreciate that

im a passionate and I’m learning day after day to build golf club , for now it’s about 10years that I build assemble and repair golf clubs..

i want to push my knowledge and skill to build golf club to an other level and have my company to be a good clubmaker so I’m looking to have good machines and stuff, for now I got how to cut & prep and assemble golf clubs and a good swingweight balance and I want to do frequency matched set of clubs

Let me know if its anayler is better that the older one

or if you know other machine

I take all advice

have good day sir

 

[Howard_Jones]

I really dont know whats "the best" out there, but the clamping system is the most important part of it. Stay away from systems without a TQ system or similar for clamping pressure, it dont help at all to have a calibrating shaft, since only a fragment difference to shaft butt diameter will change clamping pressure and return values.

When you have made your decision on what to buy, just ask for me here and i can guide you for those tasks this instrument is helpful but i can list a few things here:

NEVER try to measure a club with grips on. The grip dampen the reading but we never know how much.

NEVER try to CPM match wood shafts by tip trim to reach a certain CPM value

NEVER use RIFLES FCM chart like it was universal and represent a "standard" for any other shafts than RIFLE FCM - KBS Tour is the exception that fits the FCM system. NO Project X model and their flex labels is a reference to the FCM system, they are just like L.A.R.S.X - and 6.0 in one models is NOT the same flex as 6.0 in another.

NEVER use Kaufmans L. A..R. X charts for flex or flex slope.

NEVER use tip trim if switching between weak and strong FLO lines can get the shaft on the wanted flex slope, Shaft TIP length is more important than butt CPM (Both tapers and Parallels)

 

A few other things good to know.

There is NO common standard for flex labels

All Iron shaft models has their own unique flex slope from iron to iron, thats why RIFLES FCM chart and Kaufmanns LARSX chart DONT fit the shaft you have at hand, and NEVER modify the shaft to please any of those charts, unless its RIFLE and you are using RIFLES FCM chart for the correct clamp and flight pattern. (Rifle FCM and KBS TOUR parallels is both FCM and can use the same chart)

Take notes and measure ALL shafts you work with both as Uncut, net cut and play ready (without grips). This way you will over time get to know each models "nature" and how they should be, there is no other ways to do that, and this way you will also get to know how THAT shaft models changes when to go longer or shorter than standard. (large differences when going longer or shorter depending on shaft model)

The subject is large, and be aware of that some shaft models needs 1/8" tip trim for each CPM stronger, others need 3/16 and woods is average 2/8" (but never CPM match wood shafts, unless its a special model made for that - i dont know any that is)

[Biggie68]

Thanks a lot for all your advices and tips I really appreciate that thanks

I asked the PDG from Golfmechanix Mr Mondher, he tells me that the new machine its better than the older one, the older one its the classic CPM machine you can find in TruSpec or on Mitchell Golf CPM machine,

the new one from GolfMechanix its more precise and it has a pneumatic clamp, https://www.golfmechanix.com/src/pdf/030125-HD.pdf

its look very precise.

 

For exemple I will build my set , Miura heads with NS PRO MODUS 3 120 X-STIFF,

You think I had to do a FLO for my shaft ?

I have a basic swingweight scale and i build my own ruler, with a 60* plate to mesur all my irons with heads, and I cut 1/8 off final length because of the grip cap

[Stuart_G]

Personally, unless maybe you plan on making a business out of it and end up doing a high quantity per day, I'd stick to the manual clamps instead of the pneumatic. I would consider it more of a PITA than a convienince to have to pull out and run my compresser just to check a few shafts. But then that's me. Others might feel differently.

[Howard_Jones]

Both steel and graphite shafts has a variable to butt CPM depending on install, we talk small numbers, 1-2 CPM for steel, but you will find some thats 3 CPM, so, no matter what you do, and how you do it, you will have to set a mark on the shaft at 12 o clock when you check the shaft, so you can align it to face angle. If you dont, your CPM control and match job WILL FAIL.

Since Tip length is more important than butt CPM, we should take advantage of the variable between weak and strong FLO line, to PREVENT tip trim to get shafts flex match. This way we can keep tip as it is, or only a minor tip trim adjustment, and still have them flex matched to the wanted slope.

Lets say the actual shaft is 2 CPM from weak to strong, and you by "coincidence" only measured the shaft in one position, the weak side. If your target for that shaft was equal to the CPM value at the strong side (but you did not measure more than 1 position), then that shaft would need 2/8" to 6/16 (3/8"), of tip trim to get on slope. Butt flex will now look fine, but you have altered the tips bending properties by shortening it, and 3/8" is almost HS1

..we can avoid that if we FLO shafts and choose between weak and strong to get them on slope.

[Howard_Jones]

Here is a practical example, a set TAPER tips...yes we can adjust them too, but just like Parallels, AVOID tip trim for flex match reason as long as possible.

Pay attention to WEAK vs STRONG FLO line, and the Suggested install who is a mix of weak and strong target line. Like you can see, they vary 1-2 CPM from weak to strong, so this set was quite "normal" and nothing out of the ordinary. Dynamic Gold (and this model Monaco Tour Prototype) is expected to be 10 CPM from shaft to shaft at full length when we use the same tip weight for all, so by switching between weak and strong FLO lines, we have minimized the need for tip trim if this set was to be matched. Also keep in mind that even RIFLE FCM has a "tolerance" on the play ready set of plus minus 1 CPM; so this set would be "good to go" except for the #9 iron shaft, and in the short end is no big deal to tip trim a little, while in the long we should avoid it if we can.

[Biggie68]

Thanks for all these formations

im making my instructions guide in a word document and step to build a club , I will post it when I finish it

 

[Howard_Jones]

deleted - wrong tread

[Skydart]

Hi Howard.

I have a Club Scout Jr. and get widely inconsistent reading when trying to determine CPM. I have the 5" clamp built to Kaufman's specs mounted to my bench. I'd be interested in any suggestion about how to get more consistent result. You also mentioned not the use Kaufman's chart so what should I be looking for as a chart to follow?

Appreciate any advice.

[Howard_Jones]

The clamp and clamping pressure is the critical point, so we "should" have a clamp where we use a TQ wrench almost like the ones used for changeable shafts so the clamping pressure becomes the same no matter butt size diameter. If you use a caliper on the shaft butt, you will notice that they might be slightly off from official specs so the same "set of shafts" might vary, and that means even a calibrating club is NOT enough, (return values changes with clamp pressure) but we need a calibrating club too. ( a club you know correct CPM on, so you can adjust clamping pressure until the return value is right, then clamping pressure is right.)

To better understand butt CPM in general, just follow this link....and take your time to study, you want find this information elsewhere, so it helps you to make it right and judge the shafts you have, they all have their own nature for CPM slope, but after you know this, you want fail again. You will also find charts that actually fits the shafts you have at hand, and i also explain what "S flex" vs "X-Flex" really is....https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1816864/cpm-and-flex-matching-what-chart-to-use-fcm-what-is-flex-slope

[Skydart]

Hi Howard,

Thanks for the response. I'll see about rethinking my clamp and in the meantime I'll work through your other post. It's going to take awhile to read it all and digest to be sure. Perhaps "shelter-in-place" is a blessing in disguise during these uncertain times.

Jeff

[Skydart]

[flyingwedges2]

On 2/25/2020 at 8:32 AM, Howard_Jones said:

"KBS Tour is the exception that fits the FCM system."

Howard  - at least tell him why this is so, so he and others won't think it's a fluke  🙂

 

[DanielBronowski]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:18 PM, Howard_Jones said:

Here is a practical example, a set TAPER tips...yes we can adjust them too, but just like Parallels, AVOID tip trim for flex match reason as long as possible.

Pay attention to WEAK vs STRONG FLO line, and the Suggested install who is a mix of weak and strong target line. Like you can see, they vary 1-2 CPM from weak to strong, so this set was quite "normal" and nothing out of the ordinary. Dynamic Gold (and this model Monaco Tour Prototype) is expected to be 10 CPM from shaft to shaft at full length when we use the same tip weight for all, so by switching between weak and strong FLO lines, we have minimized the need for tip trim if this set was to be matched. Also keep in mind that even RIFLE FCM has a "tolerance" on the play ready set of plus minus 1 CPM; so this set would be "good to go" except for the #9 iron shaft, and in the short end is no big deal to tip trim a little, while in the long we should avoid it if we can.

Howard, how would the slope develop if the tip weight was only 185/205 grams, for example? Would it increase from 10 to 12,13 etc.?

[flyingwedges2]

On 2/25/2020 at 8:32 AM, Howard_Jones said:

I really dont know whats "the best" out there, but the clamping system is the most important part of it. Stay away from systems without a TQ system or similar for clamping pressure, it dont help at all to have a calibrating shaft, since only a fragment difference to shaft butt diameter will change clamping pressure and return values.

When you have made your decision on what to buy, just ask for me here and i can guide you for those tasks this instrument is helpful but i can list a few things here:

NEVER try to measure a club with grips on. The grip dampen the reading but we never know how much.

NEVER try to CPM match wood shafts by tip trim to reach a certain CPM value

NEVER use RIFLES FCM chart like it was universal and represent a "standard" for any other shafts than RIFLE FCM - KBS Tour is the exception that fits the FCM system. NO Project X model and their flex labels is a reference to the FCM system, they are just like L.A.R.S.X - and 6.0 in one models is NOT the same flex as 6.0 in another.

NEVER use Kaufmans L. A..R. X charts for flex or flex slope.

NEVER use tip trim if switching between weak and strong FLO lines can get the shaft on the wanted flex slope, Shaft TIP length is more important than butt CPM (Both tapers and Parallels)

 

A few other things good to know.

There is NO common standard for flex labels

All Iron shaft models has their own unique flex slope from iron to iron, thats why RIFLES FCM chart and Kaufmanns LARSX chart DONT fit the shaft you have at hand, and NEVER modify the shaft to please any of those charts, unless its RIFLE and you are using RIFLES FCM chart for the correct clamp and flight pattern. (Rifle FCM and KBS TOUR parallels is both FCM and can use the same chart)

Take notes and measure ALL shafts you work with both as Uncut, net cut and play ready (without grips). This way you will over time get to know each models "nature" and how they should be, there is no other ways to do that, and this way you will also get to know how THAT shaft models changes when to go longer or shorter than standard. (large differences when going longer or shorter depending on shaft model)

The subject is large, and be aware of that some shaft models needs 1/8" tip trim for each CPM stronger, others need 3/16 and woods is average 2/8" (but never CPM match wood shafts, unless its a special model made for that - i dont know any that is)

Howard - where might I find the tip trimming info you allude to?

[Howard_Jones]

18 minutes ago, flyingwedges2 said:

Howard - where might I find the tip trimming info you allude to?

There is no "central archive" or databases for info like that.

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, DanielBronowski said:

Howard, how would the slope develop if the tip weight was only 185/205 grams, for example? Would it increase from 10 to 12,13 etc.?

The larger the tip weight, the lower will the reading be, but the differences should stay the same.
Its clamping type that might change the slope. As example Dynamic Gold dont have the same slope with a 2.5 vs a 5.0 clamp, so if you wants to work with CPM matching, get the clamps and tip weights needed.

Here is one example of that, a set of DG X100 TI shafts, measured with both a 2.5" and a 5.0" clamp. Both return values and slope changes.

RAW Uncut shafts using a 2.5" clamp gives a slope of 9.33 CPM from shaft to shaft
RAW uncut shafts using a 5.0" clamp gives a slope of 11.33 CPM from shaft to shaft

PLAY READY - Un-gripped (actual heads) using a 2.5" clamp gives a slope of 5.17*
PLAY READY - Un-gripped (actual heads) using a 5.0" clamp gives a slope of 6.33



* its here we can see the difference between Descending wgt and Constant wgt (RIFLE vs DG Constant wgt when both is measured with a 2.5 clamp), where RIFLE has 4.25 CPM as slope, while DG X100 has 5.17. The difference comes from progressive thicker shaft walls on Constant wgt shafts like DG

Edited February 14, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:09 AM, flyingwedges2 said:

Howard  - at least tell him why this is so, so he and others won't think it's a fluke  🙂

 

Old question, but its no secret that Kim Braley (KBS - Kim Braley Sports) is the son of the inventor of the FCM flex system