Soft-stepping Project x shafts

[Xdmike20]

I have searched this topic quite a bit but I have not been able to find a solid answer. I have a set of irons that are about D2.5 with project x 6.0 shafts. I know the weight of the 6.0's are 120. Once I soft-step them and then cut them down 1/4 or 1/2" won't they also lose weight? With this in mind they will weigh less and be stiffer than a 5.5 by just 1 or 2 CFM's but if project x shafts are butt stiff, once I cut them down after soft-stepping them won't this make them even softer in flex? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Howard_Jones]

I have searched this topic quite a bit but I have not been able to find a solid answer. I have a set of irons that are about D2.5 with project x 6.0 shafts. I know the weight of the 6.0's are 120. Once I soft-step them and then cut them down 1/4 or 1/2" won't they also lose weight? With this in mind they will weigh less and be stiffer than a 5.5 by just 1 or 2 CFM's but if project x shafts are butt stiff, once I cut them down after soft-stepping them won't this make them even softer in flex? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

When you soft step a constant weight shaft 1x, you loose between 3-4 CPM, and the weight equal to 0.5 inch (120 / 38.5 / 2= 1.55 grams, so we can consider they to be 118.5 grams as "uncut" or comparable weight.

 

We DONT go stronger when we loose shaft weight, we always go softer since weight is flex on steel shafts (thinner or thicker shaft walls)

A set of constant weight shafts has thinner walls as they go longer to keep the same weight, so when we Soft step we use a 0.5" longer tip section and a 0.5" shorter butt section combined with thinner shaft walls and as a sum, flex goes softer with 3-4 CPM average.

 

PX plays stronger than its label compared to RIFLE FCM so PX 6.0 is considered to be FCM 6.5, so if we loose 4 CPM we are down at FCM 6.1 or a butt CPM strength equal to DG S400 (still stronger than S300 who is FCM 5.8)

 

This examples is based on that we reset SW value to D2.5 like it was.

[Xdmike20]

Howard, once again thank you for your awesome insight on shaft knowledge

[azone]

I played for years with a set of irons PX 6.0 softstepped twice. That gives you a softer, easier to load butt with the same overall stiffness. Result is very stable shaft with higher trajectory.

[bcap1]

How would a PX 6.0 soft-stepped (1x or 2x) compare to a PX 5.5?

 

[mylesb21]

 

PX 6.0 soft stepped 2x will play as 6.1 FCM. PX 5.5 plays as 6.0 FCM, therefore, they will be about same flex with a heavier shaft weight.

[Howard_Jones]

That chart is crap, i made it so i know....

PX 6.0 SS1 will loose about 1.6 grams, (118.5 grams comparable wgt) but still be stronger than PX 5.5 - Launch a tad higher for players with late release

PX 6.0 SS2 loose about 3.2 grams (116.8 grams comparable wgt) they will play softer than PX 5.5 strait in, and is now "high launch"

[mylesb21]

Howard—how about an updated chart? ;)

[Howard_Jones]

Absolutely NOT, making that chart was not a good idea, i made it because i though users of this forum new how to deal with it, but i was wrong.

The FCM system from Brunswick was for RIFLE FCM shafts only, it tells us how strong the upper part of the butt end is, but nothing about the rest of the shaft, and since shaft profiles is different, we fool our self bad when we use it for compare of different profiles.

RIFLE FCM is a "butt stiff" shaft profile, so is most other "Mid to high launch" profile, while a "low launch" profile would be stiffer at mid and tip, leaving us with a "relative" soft butt side.

Project X is a profile like that, butt side is "soft" compared to mid and tip, so when we line up Rifle PX vs Rifle FCM, we might find 2 models with the same butt strengt, but the rest is totally different, so our way of compare misleads us, and the purpose was the opposite.

The only way to compare 2 shafts on the paper is with zone flex or a full Energy Inertia profile, but even then, we cant say for sure how the player and his swing will be with that "change" what ever it is. We only have "guidelines" for what to expect, but numbers was never compatible with humans, so we see examples of where a LOW launch or heavy shaft gives a higher ball flight, and examples of where a low launch profile or a lighter shaft takes ball flight down or in full contradiction with "the book". How it feels, (both weight, balance, flex and profile) FORCES the player to change something, and only trial and error can lead us right, no paper specs can. So all we have is guidelines for what to expect, but be prepared for the complete opposite.

We should choose shafts by Weight, Balance point, Feel and Dispersion and leave ball flight to the club head, thats the short version.

Only players who is able to identify "what they feel" will have any value of specs from the shaft profile so we can navigate stiffer or stronger on that part of the shaft, but i dont have access to FREE shafts specs who can do that, they are all copyrighted, so im not able to make a chart that would be helpful, only to answer questions from user to user where i can share copyrighted information on the the terms and conditions for "fair use". That means we can legally share a compare of 2 shafts from a copyrighted DB, but we cant use the DB and make a large "chart" of it, then we violates the term for "fair use".

So a shaft chart with the full profile is not possible to make and share unless i measured ALL shaft models myself, and thats not possible since i dont have access to all shafts models. That leaves us with "one at the time" or from user to user for specific questions for compare of a few models only, we can never make a full chart with "useful specs"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kennyFpowers55]

I am wanting to soft step a set of 6.0’s without butt trimming. Only reason is I want each club to play about a 1/2” longer than standard instead of using extensions. Will I still see the same effects as soft stepping or will they just play like a 1/2” longer 6.0?

[Howard_Jones]

Since you move shafts, you actually moves HEADs and changes / goes up in head weight by 7 grams vs what that shaft was designed for, but "the shaft above the hosel" is like before.

So the change is "The same shafts, but with 7 grams more head weight". You can try off the effect of it, by adding 7 grams of lead tape to your favorite iron. It will play 0.5 Longer when shafts / heads is moved, but the feel of head weight and effect as flex will be the same as when done.

If the intention was to play it as "standard" play length, we can add 7 grams, and grip down 0.5" on the grip (use a tape as mark on the grip). This way SW remains like it will be, but we still play "1 shaft weaker" due to the added head weight that shaft will have to handle when heads /shafts is moved.

SS2 can be tested with 14 grams head weight added as lead tape, and hands 1.0" inch lower on the grip.

 

[Murdock]

What would be the effect of SS2 flighted iron shafts?

What if you SS2 the shaft, but left an extra 0.5" in butt length? Would it approximate the same as SS1, or because the head weight difference it would play more like a SS2?

I read on several threads that some people say the PX Flighted are essentially HS/SS versions of the same flex (HS in short irons, regular flex in mid irons and SS in long irons). I asked TT that question and they said "They are not just a soft stepped and hard stepped version of PX as normal PX has tip lengths of 2.5” for every shaft and our flighted tip lengths vary throughout the set so it is its own shaft design.".

If the above is true, then wouldn't stepping (either direction) the flighted style shaft make the corresponding club react differently than a constant weight/flex/tip style shaft like regular PX?

So if the long irons are expected to launch higher, and you soft stepped a 2I flighted shaft into a 4I, you'd be increasing the launch dramatically?

[Calcatera]

Hey Howard, how are you? I have a set of royal precision 6.5 rifles I’m looking to install them. If I soft step them 1x how do I keep them the same weight throughout the set.

[Howard_Jones]

13 hours ago, Calcatera said:

Hey Howard, how are you? I have a set of royal precision 6.5 rifles I’m looking to install them. If I soft step them 1x how do I keep them the same weight throughout the set.

Im not sure i got the question right, but if the shafts is RIFLE FCM, they are descending weight shafts, and soft stepping want matter then, shaft weight dont move on descending wgt shafts when we soft or hard step them, only on constant and Ascending weight shafts.

If the question was, how to make a descending wgt shaft to become a constant weight shaft, we can do that by using lead tape. (see the link below)
 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Calcatera]

Hey Howard, Thanks for responding!    The shafts are the original Brunswick FCM Rifle 6.5’s. I am putting them in a new set of 981 DCI heads.  All heads are D1 and hosel depth is a 1.25 inches. I Kinda understood the math you posted awhile back but I’m confused on how to get them to play 6.2.

 

[Howard_Jones]

8 hours ago, Calcatera said:

Hey Howard, Thanks for responding!    The shafts are the original Brunswick FCM Rifle 6.5’s. I am putting them in a new set of 981 DCI heads.  All heads are D1 and hosel depth is a 1.25 inches. I Kinda understood the math you posted awhile back but I’m confused on how to get them to play 6.2.

 

If SW value is D1, they will play to FCM 6.2, since D3 was the value this shafts was measured with.

RIFLE FCM standard hosel specs was
BBGM 1.25"
Insert 1.25"
= Hosel total 2.5"
SW value D3

SW value and CPM/FCM moves 1:1, so if we SW matched to D3, they will play to FCM 6.0, if SW was D2 they will play to FCM 6.1 and at D1 we get to 6.2

The other way, if we matched them to D3 and wanted them to play to 6.2 we had to tip trim 3/16 for each CPM/FCM value stronger, or 6/16 (3/8)  in this case. 
 

[Calcatera]

Nice to be able to pic someone’s brain that has the knowledge and ability to explain it for the average club builder.

 

                 Thanks A LOT, Have a great weekend!!

[gents15]

I went to an iron fitting yesterday and my top 2 results from the shaft optimizer were Project X IO 5.5 and 6.0, the 3rd option was KBS Tour V S SS.

Is there any reason the optimizer wouldn’t recommend a HS 5.5 or a SS 6.0 in this case? Is there something with this specific shaft that makes it less effective when HS or SS? 
thank you in advance for the info. 

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, gents15 said:

I went to an iron fitting yesterday and my top 2 results from the shaft optimizer were Project X IO 5.5 and 6.0, the 3rd option was KBS Tour V S SS.

Is there any reason the optimizer wouldn’t recommend a HS 5.5 or a SS 6.0 in this case? Is there something with this specific shaft that makes it less effective when HS or SS? 
thank you in advance for the info. 

You should ask Mizuno that question, but all you get is a starting point for testing, nothing else, so swinging that test club is NOT shaft fitting.

[dmeeksDC]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:03 PM, gents15 said:

I went to an iron fitting yesterday and my top 2 results from the shaft optimizer were Project X IO 5.5 and 6.0, the 3rd option was KBS Tour V S SS.

Is there any reason the optimizer wouldn’t recommend a HS 5.5 or a SS 6.0 in this case? Is there something with this specific shaft that makes it less effective when HS or SS? 
thank you in advance for the info. 

You can soft- or hard-step the IO. I thought the 6.0 felt quite a bit stiffer than the 5.5, but I like the heavier weight. Soft-step is the answer on the 6.0 for me. 

[RTP419]

@Howard_Jones

i was wondering if you could confirm what the FCM and weight would be for the following scenarios, both Project X LS shafts. 
 

Hardstep 6.0 (120gr) shaft and SoftStepping 6.5 (125gr) shaft. I hit both “stock” (obviously not hs or ss’ed) during a fitting and was trying to determine which would be best. Thanks in advance for your help and knowledge. 
 

 

[Howard_Jones]

Hard stepping
= Plus 4 CPM and plus the wgt of 0.5" (120/37)/2 ) = 1.6 grams
PX 6.0 becomes "PX 6.4" and 121.6 grams - Low launch

Soft stepping
= Minus 4 CPM and plus the wgt loss of 0.5" (125/37)/2 ) = 1.7 grams
PX 6.5 becomes "PX 6.1" and 123.3 grams - High Launch

Edited April 8, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[hdb27]

48 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Hard stepping
= Plus 4 CPM and plus the wgt of 0.5" (120/37)/2 ) = 1.6 grams
PX 6.0 becomes "PX 6.4" and 121.6 grams - Low launch

Soft stepping
= Minus 4 CPM and plus the wgt loss of 0.5" (125/37)/2 ) = 1.7 grams
PX 6.5 becomes "PX 6.1" and 123.3 grams - High Launch

This is super helpful to know, thanks for sharing this!

[Howard_Jones]

33 minutes ago, hdb27 said:

This is super helpful to know, thanks for sharing this!

Its the same idea behind the FLIGHTED models (discontinued), but we can make our own set close to the OG Flighted this way, here with 6.0 Flighted as example.

LONG Irons - Higher ball flight than standard.
We simply soft step (1x) those clubs we want as High launch (often 3 and 4), and use 6.5 shafts as starting point.
Flex will be "PX 6.1" and flight will be higher than standard, and we bring weight down 1.7 grams by soft stepping, so our long irons can be considered as 123.3 grams

MID irons - Standard ball flight
Here we simply use the regular PX 6.0 strait in. its often #5, #6 and #7 we consider to be MID irons.

SHORT irons - Lower ball flight than standard.
To lower ball flight vs standard, we hard step once, so here our starting point is 5.5 shafts.
They will play to "PX 5.9" and be lower launching than PX 6.0 strait in, and weight comes up 1.6 grams from hard stepping, so our short irons becomes 116.6 grams. (the PW cant be hard stepped so we tip trim that shaft to make it as close to a PW HS1 as we can get.)

That makes the set "Semi descending wgt" just like the OG Flighted was, but the weight difference is down at about 6.7 grams, compared to typical descending wgt sets where the weight drop is about 10 grams.

[RTP419]

12 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Hard stepping
= Plus 4 CPM and plus the wgt of 0.5" (120/37)/2 ) = 1.6 grams
PX 6.0 becomes "PX 6.4" and 121.6 grams - Low launch

Soft stepping
= Minus 4 CPM and plus the wgt loss of 0.5" (125/37)/2 ) = 1.7 grams
PX 6.5 becomes "PX 6.1" and 123.3 grams - High Launch

@Howard_Jones

 

Thanks for providing, very helpful. Would you also be able to confirm how each would affect spin? I assume the hardstepping would reduce spin while softstepping would increase it?

[Howard_Jones]

55 minutes ago, RTP419 said:

@Howard_Jones

 

Thanks for providing, very helpful. Would you also be able to confirm how each would affect spin? I assume the hardstepping would reduce spin while softstepping would increase it?

Soft stepping - expect launch to go up 0.25 to 0.5* and spin to go up 100-250 rpm vs standard.
Hard stepping - expect launch to go down 0.25 to 0.5* and spin to go down 100-250 rpm vs standard.

0.5 to 1.0 Static loft tweak can do the same.
Loft to launch angle on irons = 1.0* loft = 0.5* launch
Spin is 208 rpm for each 1.0* at 80 mph. 10% higher club speed = 10% higher spin

[Drivingrangehero]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:46 PM, Howard_Jones said:

That chart is crap, i made it so i know....

PX 6.0 SS1 will loose about 1.6 grams, (118.5 grams comparable wgt) but still be stronger than PX 5.5 - Launch a tad higher for players with late release

PX 6.0 SS2 loose about 3.2 grams (116.8 grams comparable wgt) they will play softer than PX 5.5 strait in, and is now "high launch"

A friend of mine has been playing PX 6.0’s at standard length for a long time, but he chokes down 3/4 to 1 inch, (more of a comfort level since he started playing his step dads clubs real young, so just can’t seem to change…… he’s 44 years old)  so the overall weight is the same, but it’s a lighter swingweight in his hands.  He hit a friends PX 5.5 that were 1 inch over and loved them. 
 

With that being said, he was in the market to buy the PX 5.5 shaft and put them in over length, but is not ok with spending that much money, for shafts, and can’t justify getting new clubs when his are in great shape, plus he loves the heads (he’s owned a few, he purchased some great condition heads off e bay over the years) 

 

I guess my question is. Could he get a very similar result from just soft stepping the PX 6.0’s 2X without butt trimming, since he wants PX 5.5’s at 1 inch over?

 

He is a low ball hitter as well. He puts plenty of spin on the ball so he’s able to stop on greens but his Apex is pretty low, maybe 65-75ft tops I’d assume. When mine was 85-95 ft, I was much higher apex than his, now that I’m around 105-115 ft, I feel like mine is almost double his ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

He would only need to buy a shaft to put in his 4 iron if he soft stepped twice since he’s dropping the 3 iron. 
 

 He liked the weight of the PX 5.5’s at 1 inch over, but he chokes down, so the inch over would have been a higher swingweight in his hands which may have helped I’d assume? He mentioned he liked the weight.

 

thanks! 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Drivingrangehero
Added info

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

A friend of mine has been playing PX 6.0’s at standard length for a long time, but he chokes down 3/4 to 1 inch, (more of a comfort level since he started playing his step dads clubs real young, so just can’t seem to change…… he’s 44 years old)  so the overall weight is the same, but it’s a lighter swingweight in his hands.  He hit a friends PX 5.5 that were 1 inch over and loved them. 
 

With that being said, he was in the market to buy the PX 5.5 shaft and put them in over length, but is not ok with spending that much money, for shafts, and can’t justify getting new clubs when his are in great shape, plus he loves the heads (he’s owned a few, he purchased some great condition heads off e bay over the years) 

 

I guess my question is. Could he get a very similar result from just soft stepping the PX 6.0’s 2X without butt trimming, since he wants PX 5.5’s at 1 inch over?

 

He is a low ball hitter as well. He puts plenty of spin on the ball so he’s able to stop on greens but his Apex is pretty low, maybe 65-75ft tops I’d assume. When mine was 85-95 ft, I was much higher apex than his, now that I’m around 105-115 ft, I feel like mine is almost double his ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

He would only need to buy a shaft to put in his 4 iron if he soft stepped twice since he’s dropping the 3 iron. 
 

 He liked the weight of the PX 5.5’s at 1 inch over, but he chokes down, so the inch over would have been a higher swingweight in his hands which may have helped I’d assume? He mentioned he liked the weight.

 

thanks! 

PX 6.0 SS2 will have a comparable wgt of 116.75 Grams compared to PX 5.5 as 115 grams.
Flex will be in the area of "PX 5.2", or close to PX 5.5 SS1 who would be "PX 5.1".
The shaft profile is now HIGH launch, but that might benefit the player in this case.

 

[shackmangolf]

I recently tried both hard stepped Project X LZ 5.5 and the soft stepped Project X IO 6.0. The SS 6.0 felt so much softer than the HS 5.5.  I then tried a standard IO 5.5 and it felt good, but a tad whippy. The IO was definitely the most consistent shaft and best feeling (for me). The question, should I go with a hard stepped 5.5 IO or a soft stepped 6.0 IO.

 

My questions
- Is the IO much softer than the LZ in stock form ? EG 5.5 LZ vs. 5.5 IO, IO much softer.  Boy - it sure felt so.

- Does HS always add 4 cpm and SS always subtract 4 cpm? If so my hard stepped 5.5 LZ was actually 5.9 LZ and my soft stepped 6.0 IO was actually 5.6? If HS/SS changes by 4 cpm, why would you ever ss/hs a PX shaft and just get the next version up (eg 5.5 - 6.0).

[Howard_Jones]

8 hours ago, shackmangolf said:

I recently tried both hard stepped Project X LZ 5.5 and the soft stepped Project X IO 6.0. The SS 6.0 felt so much softer than the HS 5.5.  I then tried a standard IO 5.5 and it felt good, but a tad whippy. The IO was definitely the most consistent shaft and best feeling (for me). The question, should I go with a hard stepped 5.5 IO or a soft stepped 6.0 IO.

 

My questions
- Is the IO much softer than the LZ in stock form ? EG 5.5 LZ vs. 5.5 IO, IO much softer.  Boy - it sure felt so.

- Does HS always add 4 cpm and SS always subtract 4 cpm? If so my hard stepped 5.5 LZ was actually 5.9 LZ and my soft stepped 6.0 IO was actually 5.6? If HS/SS changes by 4 cpm, why would you ever ss/hs a PX shaft and just get the next version up (eg 5.5 - 6.0).

IO is the "softest" PX model, so those flex labels is NOT directly comparable, they DONT have a reference to the FCM system, they are ONLY "flex labels", and NOT meant for compare with other models. So as MEASUERED butt CPM, the difference was LARGER. We can ONLY ose thos flex labels for compare within the same model  (iO vs IO or LZ vz LZ , not for compare of IO vs LZ)

NO - hard and soft stepping is individual from shaft model to shaft model, but we use 4 CPM as the average.
Descending wht shafts can be 3 CPM, constant wgt up to above 5 CPM
Thats why i use "" like this and say PX 6.5 SS1 become "PX 6.1"

We used hard and soft stepping whan we want a slightly different ball flight and weight.
A hard stepped 5.5 has a lower launch than 6.0 strait in
A soft stepped 6.5 has a higher launch than 6.0 strait in

In general we get a Weight and Flight chart that looks like this

5.5 SS1 = High launch 113.5 grams
5.5 strait in = standard flight 115 grams
5.5 HS 1 = Low launch 116.5 grams
6.0 SS1 = High launch 118.5 grams
6.0 strait in = standard flight 120 grams
6.0 HS1 = Low launch 121.5 grams
6.5 SS1 = High launch 123.5 grams
6.5 strait in = standard flight 125 grams
6.5 HS1 = Low launch 126.5 grams

So if we want a set FLIGHTED 6.0 (discontinied), we simply make them like this

HIGH launch - 6.5 SS1 long irons (#3 and #4)
MID launch - 6.0 strait in mid irons (#5 -#7)
LOW launch - 5.5 HS1 short irons (#8-PW) (we need tip trim to hard stepp the PW)

As flex the set will be average "PX 6.0"

In ADVANCED cases, we can combine stepping and tip trim if weight is critical
We can soft stepp 2 x, to loose about 3.5 grams of net shaft wgt, then TIP TRIM a taper shaft to stiffen it up again, so if someone wanted to play "PX 6.0 flex" but with the weight of 116.5 grams instead of 120, (weight like SS2, but flex still like strait in) we can make that happen. (need a ream job to 0.370)

Edited February 28, 2023 by Howard_Jones