Sand Wedge Bounce On Hard Pack(Wet) Sand

[platgof]

I really struggle with bunker shots here in Tenn as the sand is always wet and that puffy stuff does not exist at all. What I need to know is the preferred bounce for hard packed sand, 14,12, 10, or 8? Looking right now at a SM7 56* 14 bounce F grind.

[sailfishchris]

I have two sets of wedges- High bounce 14*for fluffy sand and softer fairways and low bounce 8*for the hard packed sand and firm ground. Best bet get a used wedge and try it out

[Krt22]

Before you buy a new wedge, try using what you have and hit the shot with a square face vs opening it up.

[hagimihale]

I get a lot of that here in FL, to the point where the last few years I have become more comfortable in "packed" sand than fluffy because I see more of it.

In fluffy sand I would use my 56* (12* bounce), but in this packed sand I was getting better results with my 52* (8* bounce) and laying it open.

I tried to hit the sand just behind the ball, committed to the shot and made sure to stay down and drive through the sand. Interestingly, this same process also worked well on relatively tight lies where I needed to carry something or was just unable to play a bump-and-run.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[Nels55]

I struggled with hard packed sand here for years. LOL the sand varies at my course and sometimes looks fluffy but is hard pan even though I might be able to dig my feet in. By practicing a great deal late in the evening I found a way to get the ball on the green pretty much every time. Essentially what I do is drag the club through the sand making a shallow divot with my hands pretty much as far ahead as I can get them. By doing that the clubhead cuts through the hardpan and the ball comes out like a normal sand shot instead of getting skulled a couple of counties over. I am using a 60 degree macdaddy wedge with 9 degrees of bounce that I bent to 63 degrees loft. This shot has saved my behind many times as it seems to work well regardless of what type of sand the ball is in. My goal is simply to get the ball on the green giving myself a very good chance to two putt with the possibility of making one.

The pro tips on TV or whatever crack me up as they are always hitting the 'easiest shot in golf' out of perfect sand. I can open up my 56 degree sandwedge and hit that shot fairly well also. I simply don't see that type of sand very often at the courses that I play.

 

[DaveGoodrich]

Generally, you want lower bounce when you are playing from firm surfaces. So a 56-14 F grind is unlikely to be a good choice for hard packed sand. That hardpan bunker shot can cost shots if you don't have the correct equipment.

Lately, I've been carrying both a 58-08 M grind for general around-the-green work and full shots from the fairway, and an older (red saw) 60-04 M grind specifically for hard bunkers and tight lies.

[LeoLeo99]

I wish I knew. I'm alright out of fluffy sand. Swing hard and hope for the best. That technique doesn't work on the firm sand. I've been using a Glide 2.0 ES 58° wedge and I've hit many balls over the green. Just can't get a proper thump in firm sand. It's been very difficult to judge the sand when it's wet and firm. Often top inch is firm and below that it's like concrete and the wedge just skips off it.

 

How do you hit that shot with the 60° wedge? Like off a cart path or do you take a little sand divot or do you hit behind the ball with a small divot?

[golfing_penguin]

You've got two options without changing current equipment. Mentioned earlier is play it with a square clubface and otherwise normal set-up. Alternatively, set up with an open clubface, but put the ball back in your stance

[crapula]

Remember opening the face effectively adds bounce. Closing will reduce bounce. Shaft lean reduces bounce. Shaft layback adds bounce.

All combinations are very useful.

[DaveGoodrich]

The bunkers I play usually have 1/2" of softer (raked) sand over a a packed sand base. I use the low bounce 60 with a shallow swing and "slide it" under the ball along the surface of the packed sand, taking a shallow divot in the packed sand. The low bounce keeps it from bouncing up into the ball.
If the ball is sitting directly on very hard sand, then the square approach is pretty much your only option. You can't really "thump" that kind of sand. You can hit with a square face and shaft lean, effectively "scraping" the surface of the hard sand a la @Nels55. If I have some distance to cover, I just "pick it" with a shallow swing with the 60-04. This shot is more forgiving using the low-bounce wedge because it doesn't tend to bounce up into the ball.

[DFinch]

My home course has some of the best greens in the area but has the worst bunkers. Little to no sand on top of hard clay base. Bounce doesn't matter. I've tried them all. The trick is to avoid the typical steeper "thump" type bunker shot and develop a very shallow square face "shaving the sand/packed sand layer off the clay" shot.

 

[ALIF]

I think the best sandwedge to use out of a bunker with wet, hard packed sand is actually a pitching wedge.

[platgof]

I will give this a try. I see I am not the only one who struggles with this type of shot.

[DaveGoodrich]

I think I need an explanation here. With low/no lip, I could see "chipping" it out of hard bunkers with a PW, if you have a lot of green to work with. But a PW would never work (for me) for deep bunkers and close pins.

[ferrispgm]

square faced sand wedge and less speed.....gets the ball out every time. Bounce comes more into play when you open the face. You want less exposed bounce on this shot and just swing easy. It's not as hard as people think....the toughest part is controlling your speed. Believe me...in AZ we have plenty of experience with this shot.

[juststeve]

Stan Utley short game guru demonstrates how to use a high bouncew wedge off the parking lot at Geyhawk. It really is just a matter of proper technique.

 

Steve

[LeoLeo99]

Used your recommended technique this morning. Worked great!

[Exactice808]

Random Internet poster..... take it for what its worth.

 

Square face how much bounce is already there. With a square face and say a 56* SW, with 14* of bounce, means the leading edge is sitting above the ground possible at the 1/5th equator of the ball. In comparison to a 56* SW with 8* of bounce the leading edge where its almost flush to the ground.

Caveat, now you take the 56* SW and add a bit of forward shaft lean, negating the 14* of bounce, your leading edge is now sitting some what flush or closer to the ground. (This swing though requires practice, that much delofting and placing the ball that further back in your stance needs practice)

 

My personal take is that I hardly if ever take a full divot of sand and treat most sand shots like a tight lie bruising the sand. Only time Ill do the 2" behind the ball is when the blade is massively open and the shot requires a high trajectory and spin to get the ball to stop and I am swinging harder for that spin and trajectory. OR of course the fried egg and its swinging out of my shoes just trying to get the ball out.

 

OK so direct answer is it depends.

 

1) Presented loft and trajectory. if the 56* is a versatile wedge in your bag, the question then is, what trajectory do you hit and actual distance to the flag? If your bunker shots are longer and you need the distance but the bounce is too much, then a lower bounce 56*SW with 8* bounce MIGHT be a choice. As mentioned above the 14* might be to much and you might bounce the club and skull the shot if you open the blade any more to get more loft you may increase and add MORE bounce which could be detrimental. If you Negate Bounce by forward shaft lean, you then decrease loft, that means lower trajectory.

 

2) The opposite to above would be to get a 60* LW with 8* bounce, with the square face, you have loft, the bounce is low, if you want to negate bounce by shaft lean you may deloft it but down to say a SW of 56 or a little less maybe a 52* but you still are not hitting a potential skull shots.

 

Personally I have; ( 2 sets with different shafts for spin and trajectory control)

56* SW with 11* bounce and a 60* LW with 8* bounce

54* SW with 10* bounce & 58* LW with 8* bounce

 

I split the Wedges (Both SW have higher bounce, and both LW have lower bounce) I have a preferred idea on how to play the shot rather than depend on the equipment to make up for the shot. Depth control of the club is critical especially when hitting tight lies or packed sand....

 

1) Try not to open the face and add more bounce

2) Try to keep the swing shallow, or if you do take it steep make sure you bottom the swing out perfectly if not its a crap shoot

3) if you can use the club and the bounce already provide, and use a putting style swing.

3a) LW 60* - Putter style, short chips higher launch

3b) SW 56* - Putter style, slightly longer shots, mid trajectory

3c) PW 46* - Putter style, longer or release type of shots with a lower trajectory.

 

But all 3 swings should be the same the difference is the bottom of the arc is the same resulting in descending trajectory and longer distances

 

GL OP. tough shot but huge confidence booster if you are able to conquer it!

 

[DaveGoodrich]

Absolutely true. But I'm sure if he knew he would be playing a lot of shots from "parking lot" lies, he would choose to carry a lower bounce wedge because it would increase the margin of error, resulting in a higher percentage of good results from these lies over time. Of course, you have to evaluate if the lower bounce will cost you more shots in other situations.

[juststeve]

The point he's making when he hits his wedgwe off the parking lot is that you don't need a low bounce wedge no matter how firm the turf/sand is. He isn't doing it to show off, it's to support his contention that more bounce is better.

 

Steve

[TimK1]

I have two sets of wedges. I only carry a 52 and 56. My home club has very hard packed sand. Their is hardly any sand in these bunkers. Low bouce is all you can use here. However, I travel around and play eight to ten tournaments a year so I carry my other one as well. I don't carry a 60 so I can add a higher bounce wedge. I'll carry my 60 at my home club. Their is no use for any wedge that has any bounce here.

Sometimes I change from bunker to bunker depending on the condition of them. Even on the same course they can be all different.

[Z1ggy16]

Yeah Monte teaches it this way. During clinic the practice bunker was pretty hard packed. I still was even able to open my wedge just a touch and just swung easy. Now that I play more static bounce I just don't open the face much and accept the ball well come out lower.

[tthomasgolfer605]

 

 

[DaveGoodrich]

I will seek out this video to try to understand better. Is he saying more bounce is ALWAYS better, or just the better compromise if you have to choose? I understand that you CAN use a high bounce wedge on hard ground. I just find it hard to believe that it is BETTER to use a high bounce wedge in this situation if you can afford the space in the bag to carry a lower bounce wedge too.

[glk]

High bounce with a good grind give way bigger margin for error. Low bounce is usually a bandaid for a poor grind - and then you give up flexibility - bounce is there to stop digging so the less bounce the more likely to dig. There is shaft lean in using the bounce so if you have a 4-6* bounce wedge then you have a pretty small margin for shaft lean before you introduce the leading edge - and god forbid anyone who leans it back - death move.

[llewol007]

Bounce is your friend. Your wedge is inclined to dig with the leading edge because of how you strike the ball. I believe that the wedges back then during Mr. Trevino’s era did not have much bounce so you had to create your own by opening up the face. But notice to where he came down steep on the second shot. Open face setup gave him a lot of bounce which in tern helped him get the ball out.

 

 

[platgof]

I just ordered a SM7 58* D grind wedge w/12* bounce. I figured to get an all around club and see what happens. It may be awhile before I get a chance to use it, because the clouds are busting loose here for nine days in a row.

[crapula]

I've been using a PW or 50 degree lately. Much easier, still goes high and checks a little.

[platgof]

I picked up an SM7 58* sand wedge with 12* of bounce and the D grind. Tried it out of the bunkers today and was very impressed. I was able to hit high long shots and low short shots with ease, I need to spend more time with it because it is a blast to use.

[Mono]

i run into the hard sand question here as well - i think it's a question of 'how are you trying to hit the ball' if the sand is wet or hard - it unlikely that one of those nice looking bunkers shot like you see on tv, how to videos and in your imagination where you hit two inches behind the ball and it pops up softly on the green for a birdie putt - will work, and more likely you need to know it's a different shot, and one that the less sand you take the better off you'll be.... i just saw padraig h's insta lessons and he says something about chipping and pitching in the rough (worth watching) he says guys think they want to hit two inches behind it because that what they are told and see on tv but what you actually want to do is to try and hit the bally cleanly and you should try to do that bc even if you try to hit it cleanly you are going to have two inches of rough between the ball and the club and if you try to hit two inches behind the ball to pop it up you are more likely to hit six inches behind it which won't end well, and sorry to change the topic there to fluffy lies! but i was thinking it's probably better to ask how you want to hit the ball and how the club will interact with the ground, i'd love to hear suggestions - and i won't get all hot an bothered if i'm just plain wrong, Thx