What do you make of this persimmon collection? Toney Penna WW driver and BJM Jumbo included...

[olegolfer]

Always thought the LFF was a great looking block but I wonder how many of the players of that era actually played it..

[tstephen]

Thanks RobotDoctor my LFF has the best wood and Dave Wood agreed when he began working to make it better than new. He spent an unbelievable amount of time working on that LFF on 2 different occasions. First go round was cleaning original sole plate and adding NOS ‘50 red fiber insert he had from working at MacGregor. I sent it back for a new shaft and for Dave to work on the swing weight. Again, he spent all sorts of time on it putting the best steel shaft he had in his collection a tour S3 true temper he had ordered but not used for one of his most famous tour players though he didn’t name names. The club came back perfectly balanced and D6. Just holding that club and putting smooth practice swings is a great feeling. I also love my 4 other original LFFs all have different personalities or looks. I’ve played 3 of the 5 very well. Not the all original or Dave Wood restore.

[RobotDoctor]

Every time I see this LFF a little drool forms. It's Pavlovian, I believe.

[tstephen]

I like how Dave was able to show off the nice grain of your driver. Also, the ‘52 M09 solid block Dave has on his web site is one I have some Pavlovian drool having looked over those pictures several times.

If the owner ever wants to let it go hope I can get that one in my collection. It would be at home with a lot of other top notch MacGregor jumbo drivers.

[RobotDoctor]

Yes, that LFF Dave restored is magnificent! I love how he returned it to it's former glory and how it appeared when it left the Cincinnati shop in the 50s. Dave's work is simply amazing! I have my new M85W and 693 fairway woods heading out to him this week.

[tstephen]

Actually the Japan seller might have a nice ‘52 M09 LFF if was it selling separate for $500 or less.

[RobotDoctor]

It looks ok. I wonder what Charlie meant that all four of these are wrong? I wonder if it is some of the sloppy refinishing technique like the scoring line through screws on the 5 screw LFF. The 52/53 6 screw EOM doesn't look too bad. I would agree that $500 in that condition (before Dave Wood treatment) is probably the right price. Anyone really wanting a LFF in their collection might be tempted to pay $600 but that should be the ceiling on that one. Of course if I were going to go for that I would want more pictures and I would want to see what is under the sole plate. As it stands the seller is out of reality for those prices.

[tstephen]

They all 4 look legit except maybe the one LFF sole plate and insert. The BJMs look decent never liked them very much though.

[RobotDoctor]

Agreed on both counts. I am also not a fan of the BJMs.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

So each one is about 4-5 times more that what you'd expect to pay? That's good to know, although I'm not sure I'll ever end up buying one. What are they like to hit? With the deep face, I'd expect a really low ball flight.

Talking of overpriced clubs, there's a guy selling a Honma Tour Model driver for about $1,500. Now the Tour Models are nice (I have one, got it for about $90), but not that nice. HIs listing has been up over a year. I just don't get it. Is someone like that really serious about selling? Makes me wonder.

[tstephen]

I have paid $15 - $400 for my MacGregor jumbos, $15 for the ‘50 M09 at an estate sale and $90 for my 693 jumbo. The most recently added to my collection M85 jumbo is my lowest hitter probably if you had the latest TaylorMade adjusted to 7.5 degrees. The 3 LFFs I’ve hit are just a little stronger than my other classic MacGregors and once I hit the ‘54 M09 off the turf with a slight 2 yard draw so I never had to try that again. Never hit the 693 jumbo it looks as strong as the M85 counterpart. The 3 other LFFs in my collection are ‘50 M09T including Dave Wood restoration.

[RobotDoctor]

My LFF is very solid, thanks to Dave. Yes, the ball flight is a bit lower than my M85W, 693 and M43T but I can still get it airborne. Like with all persimmon drivers I tee the ball with 1/2 of it above the top of the face. When I hit my classic drivers I use a balata golf ball. I've collected a few dozen NOS balata balls. I tool my LFF out last fall and hit a couple drives with it. The following picture shows the drive from my LFF and further up you can see my drive from my Taylormade M3 9.9 degree driver. They're about 25-30 yards apart. I used a TM Tour Preferred ball for the M3 and a 20+ year old Titleist Tour 100 balata ball for the LFF.

While persimmon may not be as long as today's metal/composite woods they are long if struck in the sweetspot. My drive with the LFF was probably about 280 but keep in mind I live in Colorado and 5,000 feet elevation gives about a 10% boost. That drive would have been 240-250 at sea level which isn't bad for an old guy.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Thanks for both replies. I cannot even imagine hitting one of those beauties successfully off the deck. When I was a junior, I had a lovely shallow-faced Mizuno persimmon driver that I could pretty well off the turf, but I doubt I could do it with a driver with that deep a face.

I have some balata balls, but haven't taken them out yet. I hit modern balls with my persimmon, and find I get a very low ball flight with my driver. I suspect its the ball, so I am still looking for one that spins more.

Even with my modern driver, I am generally looking for more spin rather than less (can't hit the low-spin models well at all); I once tried a deep-face R9 driver and couldn't elevate it above head height, so I was curious to hear how you were faring with the deep-faced persimmon drivers.

[BIG STU]

240 to 250 at seal level with a persimmon driver for an old guy ain't bad at all. Most I get is around 220 230 but then again I do not have a LFF or at least a real one. I do have a similar one that is a Cleveland version but it has too much shaft for me to hit consistently ( S-400 ). I guess my 2 best persimmon drivers for me which is a 57 Velocitized or a 70s Citation I get on average 220 225.

'

[RobotDoctor]

While I am not able to get the driver to parallel anymore I can still generate a swing speed around 105mph, probably 102 with a steel shafted driver. That said we all know that a ball struck in the center of the insert right in the middle of the screws will yield good results. Also, a firm fairway helps!

[tstephen]

I was taking the ‘54 LFF in for a re-coat so I afforded myself the turf shot. Since re-coat I’ve just hit a few with it off rubber tees on range. Glad I already have the ‘54 LFF M09 since there’s a nice one on EBay now overpriced though. Buyer beware insert looks too white might be plastic.

[RobotDoctor]

Great grain!!! - huge plus

Reshafted with DGS300 meaning rebore for shaft - big minus

Yes, insert appears to be too clean (white part) and could be non-original. I would want a closeup of the insert to see if there is a pattern imbedded that paper fiber inserts had.

Price is a bit too high for a reshafted, refinished LFF. I wouldn't pay more than $250-$300 for this on in this condition. Claimed that Barry Willett refinished the LFF. Too bad that cannot be verified. If Barry Willett did indeed restore the LFF then I am sure the work was done very well and if the insert isn't original it probably NOS material. That said, I'd love to have a '54 LFF in my collection but this one is too rich for my blood for the condition it is in.

[tstephen]

Someone bought the LFF on EBay for over 7 big bills including the shipping. Almost $770 total wow!

[RobotDoctor]

Wow! Someone wanted it in a real bad way. It looked nice but a bit overpriced. If it was Dave Wood restoration condition then I can see paying that amount. If Dave worked on it the LFF it would be worth it because Dave makes woods authentic and does a great job.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I'm starting to wonder if some Japanese pricing is a bit odd. I just noticed this listing for some Lynx laminates, Driver, 3w, 4w, and 5w. The price is 298,000 yen, which is around $2,700. The description is whacky, too. It describes them as using wood from the very heart of a persimmon tree, and the seller urges people not to use them but to add them to their collection to display.

I didn't know Lynx laminates were so valuable...https://paypayfleamarket.yahoo.co.jp/item/z9438210/?cpt_n=ydndr&cpt_m=ydndr&cpt_s=jishako&cpt_c=ydr_30320361

[tstephen]

That Lynx laminated set is worth $100. EBay has lots of over priced clubs too namely the L.E. Jack Nicklaus 1,3,4,5 woods worth $200 tops and often are priced at $2000-2500 there’s currently 2 active. A 3rd set $450. The 25th anniversary Jack Nicklaus 1,3 woods I would rate post 50’s MacGregor classics 7/10 the 1997 Centennials probably 5/10 the best Wood Bros 10/10 but the 1981 JN set of 2000 1/10 total junk I owned a set made $50 and considered myself lucky. Honestly $200 is really $100 too high now that I gave it a second thought.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

I see quite a few anniversary edition clubs come up on the Japanese auction sites. If it's got the name Jack Nicklaus on it, it's usually overpriced. I think most of it was made for the Japanese market in the bubble years of the Eighties. Now, the owners are trying to recoup some of the money from the clubs they paid too much for 40 years ago. My favourite was a guy trying to sell his pristine set of Hogan Personals (1983 anniversary edition) that were still in the box. 2i to SW, if I remember correctly. He was asking for 1,200,000 yen. Thats over $11,000...

[tstephen]

How about the Honma persimmon putters talking overpriced. I finally tried Honma irons a month ago and thought they were junk. Then I saw an article Justin Rose was trying to bail out of his contract to play them using his old Taylormades in latest pro-am.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Oh, those things are plentiful on the auction sites. No desire to buy one, but they're often described as "rare"and frequently have a high starting price. If I could pay 1 yen for one, I still wouldn't buy it because the shipping would likely be around $15, and I'm not paying that much for one.

The Kenneth Smith persimmon (think they're persimmon) putters are often even pricier here.

Old Honma persimmons are usually very good (some models are seriously anti-fade biased, and I try to avoid those); their irons were almost all cast, but are pretty soft. I have a set of PP737s from the late Eighties, and they look great at address. Feel is not amazing, but OK. Wedges are a bit iffy. As the woods are plentiful, they can be had for a good price. Just avoid the ridiculously over-priced listing.

 

[tstephen]

I paid about $100 for my Kenneth Smith and it is such an incredible putter rarely have I lost on the practice putting green using it there but rarely have I used it on the course.

[Bankwalker]

Beautiful putter. However what’s the point of having a putter you love on the practice green that you won’t use on the course? With certain rare exceptions, it seems to me that clubs were made to be played and you’re depriving yourself of the pleasure of doing so.

[BIG STU]

Normally my SOP is play them but in this case I have to go with Stephen on this one. That putter is too pretty and too rare to put into play everyday. But I guess he derives pleasure from using it on the putting green. I think this may be one of the rare exceptions you mentioned--- Just MHO FWIW

[tstephen]

Thanks Big Stu for your support. Besides the fact it’s too nice for every day play I putt inside 15 feet left handed better than right handed. I’ve been playing righty for 50 years and lefty for 20 years. I only own 1 left handed putter but 3 rh/lh putters that I almost always use for my putting on the course. Bet Bankwalker didn’t see that response coming.