Why no love for Arizona courses?

[8milespast]

Thanks for the unprompted psych eval, but I really only feel the need to post if I feel passionately about something. Do you feel differently about the current state of Papago?

The problem here, as touched on above, is the lack of variety inherent in desert golf. It’s the same issue with Links golf - if graphics or any other designatory markers were absent from the production, could you really tell, after, say, 15 minutes of coverage, if the action was taking place at Birkdale, or Troon, or St. George’s, or Lytham/St. Anne’s? Well maybe you can, but for 95% of the viewing public the answer is no. Why? *Because everything looks the same*. There’s a gorse bush here, a pot bunker there, knee high grass there. Yawn. It’s incredibly boring to watch (GolfDigest had an Instagram poll the other day, asking people which of four types of courses they’d prefer to play, and the links option brought up the rear by a wiiiide margin), and even worse to play: I went to Ireland a few years ago and played, among other classic spots, The European Club, and it was one of the least memorable experiences I’ve ever had, aside from the part where I lost 5 balls that landed no further than 15 feet off the fairway.

How is it different here? There’s a Saguaro cactus here, an Ocotillo there, a forced carry over that way. Wheeeee. Was playing with a group at Estrella Mountain a few years ago and asked a number of them, all of whom’d mentioned they had a Troon card, if they really thought there was much difference between that place and Troon North (which I’d yet to play). Sample responses:

“Nope”

”No”

”Definitely not”

”No way”

”Basically the same thing”

But no, they say online, go to We-Ko-Pa, where you’ll find another identical smattering of borderless par 4s, ridiculously penal setups, and greens that compensate for their lack of character with tricked-up slopes and speeds unbefitting of their designs.

And no, I haven’t played any of the private courses north of the 101, but I’ve seen pretty much all of them on YouTube or the Golf Channel and - surprise, surprise - it’s more of the same. You need variety on a golf course. “Mountain views” are no substitute for elevation change, for tree borderings, for aim points, for ravines and barrancas and creeks and lakes (real lakes, not that soupy Kool-Aid slop they drown ducks in) and canyons and real hills and marshy ponds and the 86 different types of arboreal species you find on a parkland course. The desert can’t compete in that regard. It’ll never be able to.

In regards to courses that aren’t “desert courses” (you curiously list Papago as one, despite the desert coming into play on like 14 of the 18 holes out there), I can only think of a few: Encanto, Phoenix CC, Biltmore, GCU, Wigwam, and Ken Mac, each replete with their own set of slop. I’m sure there are others, but the figure is much, much lower than the 70% you reference.

[AzSuperHack76]

You know what they say, opinions are like ........ everybody has one .

 

[az2au]

Two things.

I have never gotten more enjoyment out of a rant disagreeing with me than that one. It was truly spectacular in so many ways. I'm not even sure what my favorite part was.I've honestly never heard anyone call Papago a desert golf course. The absence of grass outside of the fairways does not make it a desert course but, eh, ok. I mean, it is located in the Sonoran Desert but that's as close as it gets to being a desert course.

[puttnforthe8]

Perhaps the single worst post ever on this forum!!! Almost as bad as listening to Cheeto telling the US that injecting light or disinfectant will kill the virus!

[Kuhndogg8]

Maybe you should try tennis or something. Seems like you hate golf in general.

[teejaywhy]

"But no, they say online, go to We-Ko-Pa, where you’ll find another identical smattering of borderless par 4s, ridiculously penal setups, and greens that compensate for their lack of character with tricked-up slopes and speeds unbefitting of their designs..."

There are two courses at We-Ko-Pa, very different from each other. Curious as to which one you refer in your comments?

 

 

[puttnforthe8]

Does it matter - the comment is wrong in virtually every respect, for either course.

[az2au]

Tom, he's already told you that there's no difference in desert courses or links courses. Can't you get that through your head?

[andersry]

I have played 15 diffrent PHX courses and I have enjoyed Papago, Southern Dunes, Aguila layouts the most. I will even say that TPC Scottsdale is a fun layout to play. I know the forums hate TPC Scottsdale and think it is the worst course in the area though. The highest rated course I played was Quintero and I think it was worth a play as a visitor, but I will never play it again. You get to experience "true desert golf", but it is entirely too penal the first time playing it. I think most people would shoot a million there.

Most AZ golf is stunning because the desert environment is so diffrent than Pennsylvania (and by the way golf is still closed in PA). I haven't played Troon North, We Ko Pa, and few other top tracks. Here are my layout rankings.

Papago Southern DunesAguilaTPC ScottsdaleTPC ChampionsLas Sendas (overlooking a few bad holes) Talking Stick South QuinteroTalking Stick North (Really flat)Dobson Ranch

 

[Argonne69]

I don't recall anyone say that the Stadium course is the worst in the area. It's a fine layout with a number of excellent holes. It also has a few meh ones. Playing with the grandstands up adds a level of enjoyment that you don't normally get. However, there are better courses locally, and when you add the premium price it quickly falls down the rankings. During the peak winter, one can play Southern Dunes for 1/3rd the price.

[az2au]

Correct. It is likely in the top 40 courses in the metro area. It is priced like it is the very top and I totally get why. Also don’t have an issue with it because they should absolutely have the right to get whatever they can.

[Argonne69]

I sure can't blame them. Leading up to the Waste Management the tee sheet is packed with out of towners paying over $300. I'd certainly take the cash if someone was willing to fork it over.