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Does a strong/strong grip promote early extension? Or is it too much knee flex/too wide a turn?


shadymg

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I'm grasping at straws. I have an online coach who is trying to help me, but curious if others have any idea. I have tried the butt against the wall rotate, i have tried the head against the wall rotate. My practice swings are beautiful. I've even gotten decent at irons staying against that wall. However, no matter what i try, when i look at my driver swing, i'm nearly standing straight up. I have been trying, and trying to find the root cause (i hear ya monte, there's something causing it!), but it's driving me nuts that no matter what i try doesn't matter.

I figure the only thing i have not changed in a while was my grip--i've got a strong left and strong right (under the club essentially). Could that be the cause of the early extension reaction? literally grasping at straws....any/all help appreciated? Or is it that my knees are too flexed at address?

Videos as much as i hate looking at them:https://imgur.com/a/hD5YxhI

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None of those things generally cause it, aside from too much retained flex in right knee in the backswing.

 

You have things that often do lead to EE. None of them are excessive aside from the 4th one and that’s likely the result of the first 3.

standing too far away

lack of extension at the waist causing insufficient regaining of flexion

right hip firing out

vertical shaft in transition

 

 

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All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Looking at footage immediate thing I see is right hand grip looks strong and forearm is too pronated first, which is probably changing the shaft pitch I think from P1 to P4, you need to get right arm more internal to me.

You got a strong quick pivot, but parts around it aren't helping your end result so you compensate with other moves.

You have some good parts going in the swing, just got to work out what to focus on to get stuff matched up.

 

 

Youtube golf instruction video
only shows a ball distance or direction
of about 3 inches
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The club wants to snap square off your left shoulder line at impact. If you have a strong left hand grip with a driver you'll be fighting a closed club face which will require face manipulation to keep the ball in the fairway. If you try to swing down the target line you've opened up a new can of worms; EE, over the top, redirecting the natural path of the club, loss of power, control problems, glancing blows etc etc.

 

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It may sound oversimplified, but you seem to be consciously or unconsciously raising up to contact the ball on that huge rubber tee (ball is almost above the crown of the club). You seem to stay in position on the iron shot and FW shot where the ball is on the same level as the clubhead. But the driver head is coming through about 4" higher than it was at address in order to get center contact. Only way to do that is to straighten up. Try using a lower tee or moving the ball more forward so that it is at the correct height for that location in your swing arc. We typically tee the ball high so we can catch it on the upswing and get that positive AoA that everyone is chasing. However, if you don't move the ball forward in your stance, you HAVE to raise up to make the clubhead contact not go under the ball.

BTW, I carry one of these tee holders all the time so I am not stuck using those god-awful tall rubber tees. It comes up to the top of the mat and you insert a normal tee into it

BT

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No, I"m saying don't swing along the target line or the fixed plane baseline unless you're chipping or putting. A golf swing is a dynamic motion your plane should rotate as you rotate.

Static address plane. Chip and putt on this template but don't try to make pitches and bigger swings conform to it or you'll be in a constant state of recovery from the get-go. Swinging the club back wide down the target line is one of golf's sacred cows. Causes swaying, loss of balance, you and the club out of sync and that's just for starters.

Static address plane

6CPPQFMF4MT2.png

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Actually, I see that most often especially in better golfers. Left miss is almost exclusively when club is too open and many of them have said, “Weakening my grip only made it worse.”

 

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Careful of your right thumb... she's a tricky one. You got it right down the middle on the shaft, typical amateur looking. One biggie why you might not want it there and why you want it across the shaft like the pros is to keep it from getting involved in the swing.... She's a fiesty one and will take over too much by giving her opinion when you dont want it.... just use it to gently stabilize. Try even lifting it off club and should feel comfy but I bet your relying on it to hold the club when you shouldnt....

 

My buddy is a good player and I pointed out his bottom thumb was way too involved being down the shaft and when he moved it over he never looked back as he wasnt gettin extreme curves as much and he's a scratch lol...

Can't figure how to like my own posts

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thanks for the tip! i just got back from range where i tried moving my thumb across (so keeping hand placement, but moving thumb leftward). It was bad bad bad lol, shank-o-la after shank. I like your idea though, of lifting the thumb up. will give that a whirl.

But back to topic, that thumb isn't the reason i'm early extending, is it? I'm assuming the thumb making right grip too strong could be turning over the face causing pulls?

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I strongly encourage a more neutral grip, it fixes a lot of problems. It will feel awful at first, but eventually it will feel natural. Trust me. I played interlock for 15yrs, with a pretty strong right hand(trail hand) from my earliest beginnings, but now I have a really neutral double overlap. My old grip feels foreign to me, despite having used it for so long.

 

Your strong grip may indeed be causing EE, and depending on how long you've played that way, even grip changes might only help slightly. EE usually takes a pretty determined swing overhaul to correct. The angle of the shaft is something your brain is always aware of, and depending how long that through swing angle has been engrained in your mind, the harder it is to change. The production of lag angle is a dynamic one, so static changes like grip and so forth will only help so much. The hand memory and arm action needs to be changed at the root. I have reconciled with my EE because I still play pretty darn good golf that way. It all depends on what your goals are. For me, 300y drives are not possible due to my swing flaw, but 260 down the middle is. You gotta figure out what you really want out of a change to determine if it's worth changing. Look at Spieth for example.

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Think of it like this....If you are early extending, you are turning around your lead leg. To avoid this, you need to turn around your trail leg, (after the pressure shift towards the target). If you think of your hips like hinges on a door, the 'early extender', has the hinges of the door on his lead hip and the door, (his trail hip), closes toward the target line....the pros, have the hinges of the door on their trail hip, and the door, (lead hip), opens away from the target line.

Now....having said this, it isn't quite so simple to do. I feel that since the goal is to try to square the club face and contact the ball, our brain is aware of the club face orientation when we swing. The body WILL compensate to get the face on the ball, or try to, because that is our intent. So, as Monte said, the EE is most likely a result of the club, shaft, or face being out of orientation, or a faulty move off the ball, (any number of things). If you watch the pros who maintain their tush line the best, (Rory is a good example), you will find that they all have the club face square to the path at P6 entering the release zone and a path that is close to neutral. Those who have the club open to the path at P6 have work to do to square up at the bottom, (namely, rolling the shaft, and uncocking the wrists to deliver the club at a higher plane than it was at address), this is due to the fact that when the club is open at P6, it will be aligned with the lead arm at impact. The more out of position you are, (path, club face), the more compensations, you will have to make and the higher you will have to raise the handle at impact, the result of this is the EE to enable it.

So, in my view, (take it with a grain of salt as I'm not a pro), in order to avoid EE, you likely need to square the face up earlier, (starting up top), and have a decent path.

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BU9G4YT0U71A.pngClub face is wide open, if it was more square to the path at this point, your hands would have to be in a better position, (lower and closer to your body), and your body would rotate to move to impact instead of standing up to allow the roll into impact.

L2E9CSXMCNTX.pngLook how much higher your shaft is at impact here than address in order to get the face back to the ball, likely a combination of path and the open face. You have to early extend so you can reach the ball. Square the face earlier on a more neutral path and you will see a reduction in how vertical your shaft is at impact and will see your body react by turning better and staying down. As an exercise, mimic P6 in a static position with the face open to the path and notice where your hands go....then, close the face to the path and feel the difference of your hands moving down and in towards your body. Your hands move down and in and the club head moves out and down onto the ball. It will feel like the club is moving much more down from the inside, then up and shallow from the inside.

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Actually went back to November post and viewed swings from there. You've made some good progress.

Monte told you in post #2 the causes. Too steep shaft in transition. Poor hip turn - not extending. Tilt's in backswing and transition insufficient. And too far away and reaching too much.

So get closer (when you take a hand off it should swing back so you can swing it right back to grip - if you took of your hand it would swing closer to body - on driver you can setup for a bit of reach but just a bit) An alignment stick placed behind your right shoulder should hang down just past your knee and point to your laces - hands should be just outside the toes. That's the easy part.

You take the club away outside and have a very late wrist set - too flat a swing results so you have to lift to get arms to the top - this puts you out of synch with your arms and pivot - arms need to work more in with earlier vertical wrist set - wrists should be setting gradually before shaft reaches parallel - right palm should feel like it is facing away from target by left arm parallel.

Your tilt is poor leading to poor hip extension - you need to start that left shoulder going down toward your toes in conjunction with arms working more in - going to keep you connected in backswing and have your arms and pivot working together - at the top you have flattish shoulder and tilted hips - from there you have a little chance to shallow versus the steep arm pull you do now.

An example. You and JT - see how your shoulders are flatish relative to your hips versus JT. You do this on the iron and hybrid; it's just more exaggerated with the driver.

 

0I879K452SQ7.png

WMT8LPVW3SBB.png

Something that wasn't noted back in November is that you bring your left knee too inward and collapse the left side - my take is this is the culprit on the lack of hip extension - left knee should work out toward the toes and let rotation bring it around. Having left knee work out toward toe will make it easier to get left side bend early in takeaway - left knee going out increase knee flex and lowers hip. From video this is still an issue - can see knee clearly working inwards versus out. Monte as comparison - left knee/hip much more stable - knee worked out toward toe and brought in a bit from rotation - let's right hip work back and up easier and doesn't have anywhere near as much distance to travel compared to you in order to open up in transition/downswing.

2NW84SM641AJ.png

WYK7P64UFLD1.png

Taking a lesson with Monte would be a great way to work this out - in person would be great or do his live online - $50 and he says he's done them with folks hitting pretty much anything and even from inside their homes - I'm certain he has some drills that can get to these issues.

Good luck. 1% better every day.

Here's a great video from Martin Chuck on proper right hand grip (talking interlock but applies to the right hand in general). Just posted today. Money.

 

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