Pro golf and rangefinders? (NO COVID-19, NO POLITICAL POSTS)

[cristphoto]

I saw on another forum discussion of the possibility of no caddies for a period until this virus issue is behind us. There was a charity tournament last week that had pro's play but no caddies were allowed. What's the thought on a temporary local rule to allow rangefinders if there are no caddies? The rules of golf allow rangefinders but the pro tours ban them.

[farmer]

I would like to see the pros using yardages on sprinkler heads. No yardage books, no pin sheets, go at it like regular guys.

[GeorgeHWB]

As if tour golf isn't slow enough already...

[toypor]

Last I checked my buddies and I are regular guys and we all use range finders : )

[3whacker]

there isn't a PGA Tour pro that doesnt own a rangefinder, or have access to. a trackman, pin sheets, green reading books, anything they can get their hands on to save them a shot per round which could be the difference between making a check or even making a career. Kind of hard to put the genie back in the bottle once its been unleashed

[Creedo77]

It will never happen and caddies will be working next month when the tour is scheduled to restart. If the tour was to say no to caddies you'd see plenty of backlash from the players.

i don't really understand what this fascination is with rangefinders and pro golf. Why does this get brought up so much? Pace of play won’t speed up with them

There is too much of a discrepancy with the yardage a range finder gives you. One moment it says 158, the other 160. If you combine elevation, wind, humidity etc there are other factors involved where a pro will just want to go off the sprinkler head and the pin sheet.

As someone who works on the Korn Ferry Tour The slightest difference to anything that has to do with the actual yardage can change a players shot. Adding something else into the equation with what they are trying to do with their shot will only make them more indecisive in crucial moments, a rangefinder isn't needed for them.

[Golfjack]

I think might as well give caddies access to GPS devices and range finders. I don't want to ever see another pro pacing from their ball to the flag 70 yards away. As for the no caddie deal that's an exception. Pro's are not playing without caddies on the PGA tour.

[cristphoto]

I'm as traditionalist as they come (been playing for over 55 years) but during these unique times I would never say never. Just look at what the stodgy USGA has temporarily done by allowing scores to be posted when during the round you never actually holed a shot since all the cups are raised. I don't have a dog in this fight either way but just thought it interesting that this is coming up for discussion (at the Tour level by the way).

[Creedo77]

The only discussion that the idea of having no caddies has come up is some ridiculous golf digest article as a complete "what if". I know I'm going back to work when the tour restarts next month. We're all going to be tested, staying in the same hotel, and following every other protocol there is to be able to work and have our player play.

You really think players who are tight with their caddie will want to compete again for their own livelihoods and ditch their guy? That will 100% never happen.

Tiger Woods is going to carry his own bag down the fairway? Not a chance that will happen, nor would a large portion of tour players want to do that. There's already players who wouldn't want to compete if they left the flag in.

Getting back to the idea about using rangefinders is this, players would rather walk off their numbers to get an exact number to cover a bunker/ridge on the green etc because a rangefinder can't hit a slope on a green or give you the exact cover over a bunker

[stlmatt]

With no gallery, even these guys are going to lose a few balls. It could be interesting if the smaller hitters start winning because they keep the ball in play.

 

[klebs01]

The shorter hitters aren't meaningfully more accurate than the long hitters.

[3whacker]

just the opposite....without the stands, the walkways, the ropes......the long hitters are going to feast and go low...Pro golfers know where their ball is going

[gvogel]

With a pin sheet, and a range finder, all a person has to do is subtract the distance from the front from the distance the range finder shoots to come up with the carry distance.

I am in favor of range finders for pros. I believe it would speed up play.

[Pepperturbo]

Problem with yardages on sprinkler heads is, they no longer have those. All I ever see are 250, 200, 150, 100 center of fairway plates and possibly posts. Pro's like most average golfers, wouldn't know what to do.

Can you imagine touring pros walking, carrying their bags or pushing a cart... that would entertaining. I can hear the moaning and groaning.

[cristphoto]

One thing is for sure - they would have to learn quick. They will still be playing for over a million dollar check each week. Plus sprinkler heads (if marked and accurate) aren't an absolute perfect number. What is the true middle position base reference on odd shaped greens? Not many greens are perfect circles. Plus we rarely approach from dead center of the fairway.

[Creedo77]

Those heads sound like your standard munis. There are sprinkler heads everywhere on your average tour course. If a head is unmarked then one of us writes a letter or number down and shoot the front edge with either a reflector or something else standing on the front edge. We then correspond that head to what the yardage book says and write it down for our use during the week

[Creedo77]

We double check those heads every single week and adjust accordingly (it’s part of the job)

[cristphoto]

There was an interesting discussion on Golf Channel this morning about what impact this virus will have on upcoming professional golf. They were talking about hotel accommodations maybe requiring all golfers to be required to stay in one "certified" hotel. Dining restrictions too. Also what occurs on the course as well. They want to insure good health practices and this means probably losing a bit of freedom. Very interesting was the talk with Paul McGinley - European Tour golfer and on their players board. Unlike the PGA Tour, the Euro's play in a different country each week and might not have free range of travel. Multiple regulations to have to follow making life difficult. Plus International players currently out of the country but play on the US Tour by todays rule aren't allowed back into the US (not deemed essential). My guess is they will make an exception somehow.

[Creedo77]

The tour wants all the KFT players to stay in Marriott on site at sawgrass for our first week back. As well as the next week in St Augustine.

We then go to Utah and Colorado where there isn’t much around either course

Then Tpc San Antonio we’re well likely stay at the resort

[Creedo77]

Majority of players will always revert back to their books in order to get a precise yardage. Like I mentioned earlier the slightest difference in reading off the range finder won’t be any use to them and wouldn’t speed up play.

[Golfjack]

Rangefinders are not accurate? Hm. But I do agree that the rangefinder doesn't tell you distances to edges of green, bunkers, trees, hazards, etc. I've just seen pro golfers pace off their distance for a wayward shot that wasn't accounted for, and that would have been quickly done using a range finder. It doesn't really hurt anything and would be a useful tool.

[cristphoto]

I agree rangefinders are dead on accurate but can't measure every piece of the course. However, humans are far less accurate. I believe it was in the book A Good Walk Spoiled where there was a story about Raymond Floyd. He was on a hot streak and when he teed off on the first hole of the next tournament he missed the first three greens. On the next hole after his tee shot he asked his caddie (paraphrasing here) "What do we have left?" The caddie said "165 to the flag and 157 to clear the bunker". Floyd said there's no greenside bunker on this hole. Turned out the caddie was using the book from last weeks tournament. Epic!

[Creedo77]

I'm just saying that a rangefinder can give you multiple distances when you shoot a pin. One time its 165, the next 167 and then your buddy gets 163, while all trying to shoot the same pin.

Instead you could just go off the plates, use your pin sheet, and there would never be a doubt in that yardage you get if you checked the sprinkler heads the week of the tournament. This is what we do from Monday-Wednesday to prepare for a tournament. Now, its not every single sprinkler head (some guys tell their caddie to check them all) but its a large portion of them on every hole.

I get that the pace of play would speed up on those errant shots, but again if a player can't see whats over a ridge or bunker on the green he's always going to walk off a distance (if its relatively within 100 yards) in that situation, rather than pull out a gun and shoot the pin and just go with that number. There is a lot more involved with the situation than just knowing what the distance to the hole is

[Creedo77]

That most likely would have been the last week that guy worked for Floyd. I don't see how a guy can not have a new book on him since we all use yardage book covers so Monday its last weeks book out and the new one for the week into it.

Obviously this story is about 30/40 years old so I doubt they used those back then, but caddies as a group, I think have gotten better from the days of Floyd/Jack/Arnie etc.

[cristphoto]

I agree a caddy has a responsibility to get it right or else. Not an easy job. I would modify the old creed: show up, keep up, shut up, give me the correct number.

I'm amazed watching the LPGA the language barrier between some of the Korean players with their caddies. Most speak adequate English but exceptions exist. I think it was Sun Yun Park who was #1 at the time used hand signals with her caddie and wanted numbers in meters as she spoke very limited English. Plus the one commentator said they can’t use an interpreter during play as that would be a third person which is a violation.

[Creedo77]

Yep the Asian players have it tough if their guy doesn’t speak the language

For instance Steve “Pepsi” Hale who worked for Keegan Bradley for a long time was working for Sung Jae Im for most of last year. Not sure they how they communicated but in this situation Steve was never going to keep that bag for more than a season due to not knowing the language

[Ferguson]

 

I only play with one regular guy.

A "regular guy" is a man with matching waist and inseam. He's a 32 /32.

 

[Pepperturbo]

Not many "regular" guys out there... but bunches of irregular pot belly golfers with short legs.

[dlygrisse]

As a irregular guy....I say let them use range finders. The entire golf world uses them except the best golfers in the world, why do they have a different set of rules?

[Pepperturbo]

I've played many courses before and after and in pro-ams, so agree.

You're right about munis too, but poor yardage markings has become prevalent at many private clubs, thanks to the use of Cart GPS and Lasers. Maintaining pretty white yardages on hundreds of sprinkler heads has grown costly because its labor intensive.