Foley says hit down on driver

[avant_garde]

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I have a buddy who plays PGA Tour who battles for full time status each year. Previously worked with a top 100 instructor for a number of years who didn’t mind that he hit down on it a bunch (like 3*). Upon recommendation he ventured elsewhere (to another top 100 guy) and found 6* of change: increased distance, direction, confidence, $$$ and status. He certainly believes the “down” held him “down” and as result is less than complimentary of the first instructor.

[avant_garde]

Not sure he got it right with TW either. Man! See how far left he used to have aim to hit his cut just to try and “find” a fairway?

[Nels55]

That is an interesting story. I am curious what kind of clubhead speed your buddy has with his driver?

[A.Princey]

I think hitting up a little is ok, but going for the huge "dig it out of hole" swing is foolish. Tilt the shoulders slightly, play the ball forward, and that alone should promote enough "up hit" without trying to manufacture even more upward direction just before impact. If nothing else, just try finding a perfect tee height to get a little higher up on the face more often, less spin and more launch in a much easier fashion.

[avant_garde]

I’ll check out his TM file and report.

[Man_O_War]

the pros have plenty of distance....if hitting down gives them accuracy, it's a good compromise.

[dcmidnight]

I have tried the "hit up as much as possible" mantra and just my own personal opinion is that its bunk. You bring so many other bad things into play, so many dispersion issues, it just was not comfortable for me. My natural - not trying to do anything too much one way or the other - was right in that sub 1* area. Fitter said that he was thrilled for anything between 1 and -1. My average AoA after my driver fitting last year was + 0.7* / driver SS 108 / fit into a 12* driver cranked down one notch.

 

[Red4282]

Lower Spin loft maximizes distance but higher spin loft maximizes accuracy. Give and take. Find the middle ground for best of both. Can be different, depending on person.

[Golfbeat]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-JCb5nWd7IThey must be all messing us up. And there are countless others.

 

[glk]

going to be a range for folks. Depends on speed, skill level, etc. if most golfer swing under 100 then marketing to them to hit up isn’t a bad thing - issues come in when people do funky things to be able to hit up like add lots of secondary tilt at setup, drop the right shoulder in transition, hang back, etc. instead of learning to do it properly.

 

Fact Check: A Downward Attack Angle With Your Driver Is More Accurate?

[Golfbeat]

Good article. With all respect, I think Monte made it a bit too black and white.

[CaddiesFault]

To maximize distance you need to hit a little bit upward to get the high launch low spin. Scientifically proven.

 

Golf is not all about distance though. tour players & low HDCPs need to at least keep the ball in play, if not in the fairway to score well. A slight negative AOA adds a little backspin, which helps negate side spin leading to straighter drives. Also keeps the ball from bouncing through the fwy into the rough. everyone is a little different though.

 

 

[jjmurry]

For those that have successfully moved their AOA more neutral from a fairly high AOA, what was the trick? For me when I try to lower it from the +4/5 area to +1 level I get my upper body too far forward and I hit these swiping slices.

[glk]

I think for the avg golfer it is. Try to hit level. One issue it’s unless you are on a launch monitor then you don’t know - video is not a way to measure.

so a 10 trying to hit up is likely to hit it 5*+ as they are to hit it 2*. Me if I wanted to hit up I’d do it with an instructor and get it measured. That said dispersion is bad on both ends of the spectrum. Find that happy place.

[iteachgolf]

With modern drivers you don’t need to hit way up on it to get high launch and low spin. I see far more players who don’t have enough spin on driver than players who spin it to much. Especially slower speed players. Easily a 10:1 ratio of guys with too little spin vs too much

[Golfbeat]

Would a more lofted driver and hitting only slightly up or level or even slightly down be good to get it higher and further more easily?

[jmkenn0]

Every now and then I chase the "upwards" but it just inevitably leads to the monster block right. At this point I'm fine with a flat to negative AoA and trying to optimize through technology.

[Nels55]

Good advice! Another problem is that most golfers are going to need a lower loft in order to hit up effectively. I have seen guys trying to hit up with a driver with too much loft and the result is a nice balloon ball that goes nowhere.

In a fitting session with TXG Na Yeon Choi is swinging right around 95mph clubhead speed with a 9 degree loft driver swinging up at about 3 degrees which produces a really good launch. Obviously she is a pro and has already dialed in her club and swing using launch monitors. The TXG fitting was kind of fun to watch and compare with some of the am fittings that they have done. The driver fitting starts around the 1:34:00 mark:

is a look at one of her drives:

So, as you said without a launch monitor it is really difficult to know anything. It is also nice to have a lot of shafts and heads to try and an expert to help find the right combination.

In the end if a player can swing up and hit the ball with good launch characteristics then go for it. It does come down to how much work somebody wants to put into it. For me I swing around 95 mph and working with the Club Champion it was determined that it is best for me to tee the ball a bit lower and swing through pretty close to level angle of attack. LOL if I ever golfed with Na Choi I would be getting out driven rather consistently. Such is life I guess...

[MonteScheinblum]

I did not. I said it was more difficult to line everything up and that is a fact. Look what Dan said as well.

hitting down too much is bad. Hitting up too much is bad. There is a range like everything else. Making things black and white is the opposite of what I do and you know that.

If you remember, you took this same tone with me about getting hips open and look how that turned out.?

 

[Golfbeat]

Well you said that I would have to practice 60 to 80 hours a week to be able to hit a little up on the driver. That seems to me a bit over the top.

[Krt22]

Hitting up a little and hitting up 4-5 like some LPGA players is two different things.

[MonteScheinblum]

That’s not what I said. That’s what it takes to hit way up like 4-5. Yiu said what about lpga and that’s how much they practice. I was directing at that comment.

[gators78]

Hitting up has helped me a lot, as someone that gets steep under the gun it keeps things more neutral...but I agree it's not for everybody.

My big "a ha" was realizing how much I needed to adjust the alignment and setup. Aiming right down the middle of the fairway trying to hit 5* up with a draw is a bad idea.

[iteachgolf]

Most need more loft. My whole point is you can launch it at 14* and 2200rpms of spin and not hit way up on it with modern equipment. Trying to hit up on it often leads to a lot of low on the face shots which makes it spin more. 99.9% of people should never think about AOA at all. It’s a byproduct. Make the best swing you can and let the AOA be what it is and then fit clubs around that

[MonteScheinblum]

The last sentence is everything. I don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand. Make a good swing, don’t chase numbers.

[SNIPERBBB]

Because it's too simple.

[iteachgolf]

These are 3 different players in the last 2 days. Can get very high launch with low spin without hitting way up on it

https://i.imgur.com/I6KyFDC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZXSXlCi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KPohokG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hYaf40D.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Y97yBmo.jpg

[Golfbeat]

So these players hit the ball basically level to slightly up. I understand that we should not think about the AOA too much but Foley says: "To cure your slices and pulls, hit down on the ball with your driver. A good thought is to try to take a little divot after impact".

[Krt22]

"A good thought" . I'm not sure if he's really advocating to chop down on the ball, but instead trying to cure the compensations/flaws that arise when people try to manufacture a big AoA (hanging back, excessive tilt, etc).

[Pepperturbo]

Not sure if I learned right or wrong but my AoA is slightly negative. It's a real challenge to hit up on the ball when hitting the ball hard and at 80% of SS. Seems I recall though, not long ago when the talk was hit up on the ball if you want distance.

If you're around long enough you'll hear one thing, then the opposite and it'll go around and come around, and every one will swear this way is better than that way... go figure.