Speed first or Accuracy first

[leezer99]

This is a great topic IMO. Lots of chatter coming from what Mike Bury posted yesterday and wanted your thoughts within the junior golf landscape.

[Golfingdawg19]

That seems to be the train of thought by most teachers today. It is also backed up by what you see on the tour today. The courses are set up to favor the bombers. Fans want to see the long ball just like in baseball.

[darter79]

For juniors its about speed, learn to swing it fast first then add some control in there. Go after it and grip it and rip it.

[YoungJedi]

You can’t teach speed. Is engrained at certain age gaps. If you miss the age gaps, your “max” won’t be able to be as high no matter what you do.

 

get as fast as you can....and I can teach you to hit it straight.

 

Speed is an unbelievable advantage in terms of strokes gained.

[JuniorGolfParent]

Yes speed first, but only because there seems to be a window for development.

However, ultimately speed is capped by genetics. You can max your potential, but there is no amount of training you can do to dramatically increase swing speed if you don't have the physical makeup for it. It's not that different than sprinting or jumping: there are certain people who will never be fast or jump high, no matter how much they train.

And the amount of training needed to max your speed potential might be 5-10 hours a week at most. To be an outstanding golfer takes many multiples of that in working on the "accuracy" part across the bag. So from that standpoint, I think speed is very overrated in terms of how to ultimately shoot lower scores, and what the "focus" for a young golfer should be.

As an aside, I see a lot of kids doing a lot to improve their swing speed (speed sticks, etc). I think some of them run the risk of serious injury if they don't have the right strength/mobility (and maybe technique) and are just "swinging hard" over and over because speed training seems to be the hot thing to do these days.

[heavy_hitter]

This simply is not true. You can teach speed.

[YoungJedi]

If you miss these critical windows, no matter how much you train, no matter how much you have perfect form...you will never be able to have as much speed as if you had trained in those windows.

[leezer99]

@YoungJedi I don't know about making such a definitive statement when a top pro who obviously already had a ton of clubhead speed is able to increase it even more like Bryson has during this off season. Bryson DeChambeau reveals how to gain swing speed using his method

[heavy_hitter]

I know the windows. Your statement, however, is false. The bottom of the picture even says "Always Trainable but declines with age."

[heavy_hitter]

@iteachgolf I believe Dan will disagree with you as well. We have had this discussion in these forums in the past.

[sethdavidsdad]

technique first then add speed

[heavy_hitter]

SPEED 1st. Accuracy 2nd. Easier to teach someone accuracy than Speed. As long as they don't have a swing wear they will injure themselves, technique doesn't mean a thing as long as they can get the ball around the course. A teaching pro that is all about Accuracy 1st and Speed 2nd isn't much of a teaching pro. Just my opinion of course.

[Kcct82]

IMO you need to prioritize speed WHILE keeping a good portion of training in technique and fitness. You can’t go fast without physically being to, and you can’t go fast without some form of proper technique.

 

[MB19]

The human body is amazing, and can be trained to overperform.

A local kid I know went from being a HS quarterback who ran a 4.8 forty to being a WR at Miami who ran a 4.48 in a matter of a few years. How did he do it? Speed training with a strength and speed coach who was mentored by renowned strength and speed coach Juan Carlos Santana (https://www.ihpfitness.com/jcsantan). This kid was a decent natural athlete, certainly not elite--but he worked hard mixing cross-training with specific drills to increase his sprinting and leaping ability. A decent athlete can work their way up into being a great athlete with the proper building, given they don't have a have a physical condition which caps their ability to train (and recover).

A kid I grew up with was the worst athlete on my baseball team when we were 7 and 8. Little coordination, little speed, little self-confidence. Fast-forward to him being in 12, and he's run to school every day (he lived almost two miles from our Jr. High, in Southeast Michigan) for 18 months. Track tryouts, and he's the 2nd-fastest 100 sprinter in the school and is the anchor for the 4x100. In 4 years he's my high school's tailback. This may be an extreme story, but if you would have told me this non-athlete was going to be a sprinter and tailback when we played baseball together... well, it was inconceivable.

Casey Mize was undrafted out of HS with a fastball topping out at 92. By the time he was drafted first overall by Detroit, Mize topped out at 97. The following year he hit 98.

Sure, just doing speed sticks can only get you so far. But speed sticks+marital arts/gymnastics+ core-strengthening and running routine, for example? It isn't unreasonable to think such a regimond, over time, will produce a measure more of swing speed.

 

 

[leezer99]

Agree with @MB19 but I would switch running (which makes me think of cross country running) with sprinting. 40 yard dash or even just 90' basepath distance.

[wildcatden]

Have good technique but focus on speed. If my junior just tries to swing as fast as he can with driver but his technique is way off, then we get drives that don't go very far.

[iteachgolf]

I think most don’t understand the context. Most never even approach their potential. I can show you plenty of adult golfers who played at an elite level through junior golf and college only swinging around 100mph and in their mid 20s now swing 115+ mph. And these guys specialized in golf and are unathletic and missed all the windows. They still could be taught to increase their speed by 12+ mph.

 

 

 

I believe if you solely focus on speed with a player who is playing competitively it can massively backfire. Most can’t handle poor results for an extended period of time. Proper technique improves both speed and accuracy and lowers scores. I think there always has to be a balance especially when working with emotional kids and young adults.

[MB19]

Yes, I should have been more specific. Thanks for adding this.

[tiger1873]

Easy speed is very important and the biggest thing most teachers want.

But don’t discount control of the ball and accuracy as well. If your swing is not sound the best teachers are not going to waste their time because your going to lose speed if they have to rework the swing completely.

a lot grey areas here so the above statement isn’t an absolute but plenty of kids who swing fast never gain accuracy and plenty of kids who are accurate will never have speed.

 

[kekoa]

My son played with a kid yesterday and he was driving it about 70 yards on average past my son who isn't short for his age. One par 3 was 127 into the wind and the other kid hit a 6 iron to the back of the green. I'd question the kids age first off. Second, he had a hard time hitting the green from 80 yards in. It was crazy. Add his inability to putt and I think the kid shot +6. Both aspects are very important, but speed without some accuracy is worthless.

[Dpavs]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why cannot a teaching pro mix speed drills with accuracy drills? Golf is the only sport I know of that seems to want to treat these two as things that have to occur separately and I am not sure I understand why.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

I've personally increased my swing speed by 10MPH and I have a Dad bod. Anything is possible.

[chipa]

With all due respect I started playing golf at 35 and managed a 128 mph club head speed by the time I was 37. I played baseball as a kid but was a terrible batter and never hit the ball with force when I actually did hit it and quit at 9. I'm only 5'7 and 155-160 pounds. BTW, what is the research reference for the claim that there are "speed windows".

[leezer99]

The speed windows are researched and spoken about everywhere from junior Canadian hockey to Dr. Greg Rose at the Titleist Performance Institute.

[SkiSchoolPro]

US Ski Team also believes in sensitivity windows.

[MarkTheSark]

This. For me, it's a gimmie.

[YoungJedi]

You likely did some fast twitch training without even knowing it, ie swinging whiffle bats.

Ever hear of Titleist Performance Institute? (TPI)

this article also mentions a number of studies:http://moving-the-future.blogspot.com/2012/11/speed-windows.html

[chipa]

I threw a lot rocks, played soccer and tennis when I was 13, but never had any training other than a soccer coach.

I'm sure there are exceptions. I also believe the theory by Dr. Rose is relatively new and hasn't passed a lot of peer review because there doesn't seem to be a lot of references in scientific journals on the web, to include Researchgate and the NCBI.

[chipa]

Can you post a reference to a publication of this theory in a peer reviewed journal/website?

[leezer99]

No. Try googling long term development programs.