Major EE going on.

[byrne092]

I’ve really worked hard over the past couple years on my golf journey. Went from shooting in the 100s to breaking 80 a few times - hover in the mid 80s

With that said it seems like my swing has always been changing, which I guess is good and bad. I just seem to be lacking consistency.

Recently it seems like I am just completely out of it and the ball striking backs that up.

I decided to video myself and was surprised at how ugly it looked and the apparent problems.

i took a couple videos (I never video myself so sorry if they aren’t ideal). There is obviously some major EE/ standing up going on. It also looks like I’m coming into impact super steep.

Appreciate any thoughts. I am truly dedicated to getting better and just seem a little lost

 

[MonteScheinblum]

Too close with hands inside shoulders, no knee bend at address, shaft very vertical in transition.

You must EE or you wouldn’t hit the ball

[byrne092]

Thanks for the comments Monte. 2 of those sound easy enough to work on fixing.

I think I see what you are talking about with the transition. It looks like I reroute the club at the top, starting down steep?

[byrne092]

Definitely feels different at setup. Feels like I have more room that’s for sure.

[chigolfer1]

Need to get hands deeper sooner on takeaway

[danielt823]

Find a reputable pro in your area and start taking some lessons, build a plan and start working on that.

Or at the very least do an online lesson with Monte or Dan who are both on these forums.

[LyinEye]

Good eyes and hands, and with some work you'll do fine but now it's all over the map, but still has some smash to it- that's good for starters.

You're arm dominant now so may want to seek a path down that road, and nut that first, then branch out. Ever study Manuel de la Torre? It may not seem like it but it could be right up your alley- it's easy to understand, learn, and maintain with all kinds of smash too. Check out his work on Youtube and there is a user here named juststeve that knows his stuff and has a WRX thread or two by searching that I've seen that are good summations of de la Torre's work.

Cheers!

[tcary333]

Your EE is definitely a result of your turn away from the ball and the path of the club on the down swing. Currently, you are very "steep" on the take away and on the down swing, which causes you to early extend to shallow it back out and make contact/hit it straight. If you didn't early extend you would hit it left all day long (or leave the face open glancing blow pull cut/slice)

To me it looks like your arms are out racing your body turn on the back swing. This causes you to "pick up the club" which gets you into a less than ideal back swing position at the top (hands too close to your ear, club laid off. I'd rather see your hands a bit left of your shoulder at the top). As a "feel" drill, try to really focus on turning your upper body away from the target, while letting your arms follow your body (Rather than starting the backs wing with your hands and arms) This will hopefully get your club more on plane at the top, easing the process of the downswing. I use this drill a lot in my teaching and it helps. Once your back swing has improved, the early extension will go away over time with more work focused on that problem. But it can't be fixed until you work on your back swing sequence and the transition towards the ball as well.

Hope this helps. I strongly urge you to find a teaching instructor, though. It's tough to apply these things without someone watching and confirming that your feels are actually reals

[chigolfer1]

The swing doesn't look good. I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't know. But, as others have said, you definitely strike the ball well. It's amazing the compensations we can make to get the clubhead on the ball. You are making a lot but you also seem to hit the ball very solidly based on these videos.

[MMB1500]

My theory on EE is that it's often caused by a misunderstanding of how the hands and wrists work through impact. That is, players EE because they have to make room for the club standing up (lengthening) as a result of a flipping action. Once a player has the correct intent/action regarding what to do with their hands and wrists they no longer have to make extra space for the club through impact and the lower body starts working correctly (or at least better).

[chigolfer1]

What is the misinterpretation they're operating under?

[byrne092]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

I do strike the ball well (most of the time) but as you all have seen its not due to the best mechanics - probably more to my dedication and practice. Keep in mind I started a little over two years ago.

I’ve had about 8 lessons from a well known reputable pro, but at the conclusion of the season and recently, It feels like it’s a series of band-aids. That’s why I was shocked when I saw my swing on video for the first time in over a year.

I went from consistent mid-low 80s, with a couple 70s thrown in, to now consistently in the low to mid 90s. My irons have been detrimental - it’s a 50/50, not too bad to horrid.

The hardest part is trying to figure out what to do now.

[kleydejong]

 

I think this was pretty true for me. I had some massive EE two years ago. Backswing had zero right knee extension and some arm overswing. Downswing was steep and my right knee came well forward past my toe line. Lots of left wrist extension through impact and into the release. It wasn't until I started hitting little 9-3 chip shots with a lot of left wrist flexion and supination through impact that I really saw some bigger changes. There is no magic pill, just lots of learning, lots of video taping, lots of lessons, and hard work. 1% better every day.

[byrne092]

Well one thing I finally decided to come to terms with this past week is my downswing “thought”. Long story, kind of short;

When I first began golf I had a few lessons at Golftec and then switched a different instructor based on a recommendation - he had great success and is a very good golfer himself.

My new teachers ideology I would say is very much like Malaska, as well as the cast/you can’t release the club early enough thought. As we progressed I was playing very well - I think the blend of what I had learned and being taught was working.

Then as this year began, I couldn’t hit the ball. Recently I had developed shank and no matter what I did, I couldn’t shake it (even after having another long lesson followed by a lot of practice) I was lunging, over the top/steep, just bad. I honestly think that the constant emphasize on my "release"/downswing, the rest of my body got neglected and it went downhill.

This week I watched a few Monte (zipper away and right elbow leads) and Shawn Clement videos. Shanks are gone (fingers crossed) and while the ball striking isn’t perfect, it’s a million times better and I’m not standing at the ball terrified of hitting a shank.

Here's another video. I know the angle is not great - I need to figure out a way to take a better video.

 

[glk]

Want that camera pointing at the hands from dtl - prop it up on your bag if nothing else is available - they sell small tripod with flexible legs that can be attached to the bag and typically hold a smartphone.

From that low angle it is hard to say a lot but it appears you start the club going away from you which leads to you getting the shaft more horizontal and then a lift to get to the top - as is typical for this pattern you then pull the shaft very steep in the downswing - so to hit the ball your brain reacts by having you stand up (shallows the club) and straighten that right arm (another shallowing move) to counteract the steep shaft and allow you to hit the ball.

Your swing pattern is shallow to steep when it needs to be the opposite. Plenty of things go into this but a really good drills is to stick an alignment stick down the shaft of a short iron and do these drills - going lefty is optional. Will get you into a steep to shallow pattern - does quite a few good things for the overall swing. When doing it from the lead side make sure to keep the stick touching your side and slide it down your lead knee when it'll come off at the knee - goal is to have the stick point between toes and ball. Going to get you to side bend in takeaway, works on flipping cause if you flip you'll smack your side when you hit the ball, among other things. Can hit balls too but go slowly - even good swings can still hit your side in the follow thru.

Get the pattern correct then there will always be plenty of refinements to make - the joy of golf.

 

[byrne092]

Thanks @glk - this is a case of feel aint real - my backswing doesn't feel anything like it looks, so I think these drills could be helpful with providing quick feedback. I will give them try!

[glk]

Yes, changing a swing without some kind of feedback makes a difficult task even more so. One thing to note - I imagine as you do this it will "feel" very inside compared to what you are used to.

Keeping that stick on the left side and running it down the leg requires early left side bend and keeping the right arm straight - shoulder most likely will turn more and earlier than you have experienced.

Dan started me on this over 3 years ago - I still keep an old club with a stick in it - used it already today. Have to stick with it. 1% better every day. Good luck.

 

[wagolfer7]

I would also focus on your wrist position at address. Which would work well automatically with @glk recommended drill. Just make sure that stick position is above your hip, like it is in all the pictures he's posted. Simply put, your hands / wrists need to point more down. Your current setup promotes a lot of face manipulation. If you did the stick drill from @glk with your current setup, the stick would be below your hip. This would also help you get yours hands away from your body, without actually moving your body away from the ball.
I would also work on a one piece takeaway. Your hands start your swing, with a lot of forearm / wrist rotation. Repetition / Consistency means simple. Less moving parts is what you want.
Congrats on going from 100's to 80's in a couple years. That's a great improvement.

[Dumpedunder]

Bro:

Setup needs the butt tucked under you. Feel like you’re doing a plank. Your butt is sticking out. Big problem. The butt goes out like that in the downswing, not at setup.

Your lead shoulder internally rotates on the takeaway. That flattens the crap out of the shaft as it goes back. It also sets you up to do nothing but steepen coming through. To fix it, grab the club with your left hand grip. stick your right thumb in your sternum and extend your fingers until they dig your biceps muscle on the left arm. Feel the whole chest going back instead of that shoulder rotating in. If you mess it up, you’ll dig the biceps, and that stings a tiny bit. That shoulder is supposed to rotate in, but on the downswing. You just have it a little reversed.

When you steepen in transition, you have to stand up or you won’t hit the ball. You are a good athlete to make the compensations you do and hit it.

Setup and backswing would be the first places to start.

 

[byrne092]

Appreciate the comments and tips.

Dumpedunder i really like that rotational tip/drill you provided - forces the body to rotate.

Here's a couple more videos - not much different than the last, but hopefully a better camera angle. It's crazy, I was hitting the driver great (carrying about 250) and then I look at the video and see that ugly a** swing.

I really need to get my backswing figured out - as you all have said, I think that is a huge problem. Also looks like my clubface is wide open coming into impact and I get lucky to square it up at the last moment - hence my current miss being a shank or a hook. Red shirt is the most recent.

 

 

 

[MMB1500]

@byrne092 The camera angle is not very good. For DTL the camera should be level with the toe line, at belt buckle height. For caddie view, it should be in the middle of your body, again at belt buckle height. See here for instructions (scroll to bottom of page).
In terms of EE, I think part of the problem is you're just trying to hit at the ball immediately from the top of your swing. As a major EE'er in the past, I speak from experience. Check out this video which will help with the squat and rotation in the downswing. Your belt buckle should be working down and away from the ball, not up and towards it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-iOPivalL4

[byrne092]

Video from a few weeks ago.

Main thing I am currently working on is smoothing out my transition. The thought of a pause at the top has improved ball striking. Another thing I noticed in this video is I don't appear to be fulling setting/cocking my wrists.

Haven't had a shank in quite some time, knock on wood.

[byrne092]

More progress. Couple things seem to stand out; I feel like my transition is still pretty quick, appear to be starting downswing with my upper body, not fully cocking/setting wrists. EE is not nearly as extreme as it was originally though.

Still coming in a little steep and appears I am not hitting from the inside, which makes sense because I am hitting the ball solid, but it is a weak fade. Hips and shoulders both appear square at impact. Right arm fully extended at impact.

Thoughts currently; small pause at the top, initiate downswing with a slight sensation of the left hip moving back.

[BrysonD400]

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1841676/greatest-video-i-have-ever-seen-on-early-extension#latest good thread we have going on this topic. good luck!!

[Snarkesor]

Club path is better in your last video for sure, but I’d say you still need to get the club head working up way way earlier in your backswing. Your thought should be that the club only works up, not around you at all, in your backswing. As the club works around your body in the backswing, your arms detach, and your pivot gets all out of wack. Basically if you run your swing videos in reverse you’ll see the proper club path.

From there you need to work on getting much more open in your downswing. You’re early extending because your rotation is stalled so you have to throw your hands at the ball while getting out of posture to make room.

 

[milesgiles]

Had t seen thread before, cool to see you’ve actually improved visibly.
its still steep with no body rotation as you know.
i like the 9-3 and slow motion drills. Briefly:
9-3, half swing without the ball, feel your left hip is back before the clubhead gets back to the ball. I don’t think you need to be completely open to the target, tour style, but they need to be at least a little bit rotated open at impact imo.
It’s crucial to do this without a ball first, once a ball is in the way you’ll be trying to hit it rather than rotating your torso. When I’m practising I’ll make two or three of these motions first then immediately stepto the ball and just let it get in the way. Keep filming and checking, as you’ve realised what you feel you’re doing is never what’s actually happening.
a slow motion full swing achieves the same thing, with or without a ball, I think you’ll find this very hard with your pronounced hit impulse..
one last thing to try..with your setup as it is, try to hit it miles right. A straight push, not a slice. Film it, see if that has shallowed out your downswing. You’re trying to capture the feeling of the hands and shaft working lower and shallower on the downswing.

[byrne092]

@milesgilesThanks for the tips. I have been working on this a fair amount. I like this Monte video - it seems like it relates to the advice you gave. Getting better each day. I will post another video at some point.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZU2ptHFZD0

 

[Lefthook]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:34 PM, byrne092 said:

More progress. Couple things seem to stand out; I feel like my transition is still pretty quick, appear to be starting downswing with my upper body, not fully cocking/setting wrists. EE is not nearly as extreme as it was originally though.

Still coming in a little steep and appears I am not hitting from the inside, which makes sense because I am hitting the ball solid, but it is a weak fade. Hips and shoulders both appear square at impact. Right arm fully extended at impact.

Thoughts currently; small pause at the top, initiate downswing with a slight sensation of the left hip moving back.

 

The two last videos look much better than the previous ones. Congrats on your progress.

 

You should start videoing your self face on as well. This video only tells half the story...

 

On the early videos you seem to be hitting the ball with hands and arms. Now you have better synk between body and arms. But you still have some distance to cover in that regard.

 

One thing I see in this last video is that you lift the club very early in the back swing. IMO you should take the club back on the shaft plane.

 

You're still kind of swinging at the ball as opposed to swinging through the ball. A good impact position isn't a mirror image of address. Hips should be open and shoulders should be somewhat turned through as well.

[byrne092]

First off, I know the camera angle is not the greatest - I actually just ordered a stick to make it easier to take videos - right now I have just been propping it up on my bag.

I am still amazed that I am struggling so hard with a more vertical shaft in the backswing, but I would say it is slowly, slowly getting better. 

Right now I am essentially working on @MonteScheinblum NTC. I have only been working on it for about a week, but the results are great when executed properly. 

Like most amateurs, a result of my faults is an OTT move. Working on the NTC with the help of a training aide (I stick an alignment rod in the ground at an angle pointed toward the target). Similar to this, but at much less of an angle.

Obviously the hip rotation is still severely lacking, but I am hoping that continues to improve as other parts of my swing progress?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by byrne092

[Lefthook]

You still stall towards impact. You could think that, from P6, everything should move together through the ball. Especially right hip and hands. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Lefthook