"Made for" vs. After Market Shaft

[mwink822]

Taylormade did have a few proprietary shafts in their TP lineup, and not all that long ago. I suppose it would have been around 07 or 08 that they had the TP REAX Rombax shaft that was essentially a slightly more user friendly Rombax W and they also had the Diamana Whiteboard 65 in the Tour Burner.

As for more and more companies using actual aftermarket shafts in their clubs, this is happening more and more, but you also notice a slight increase in price because of it. Rather than being $379-$399, drivers are now $429-$449. And if we take a look, irons haven't taken the same kind of sudden leap in price. The Ping G and i series irons have held steady at a certain price point for a number of years, Titleist AP irons have held at their price point for a number of years as have their CB and MB irons. Same for Mizzy and Taylor. Just an observation.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426186833' post='11130037']
Interesting. Its very possible I misunderstood what the fitter was telling me. The second paragraph is actually exactly what he told me. So it's very possible I misunderstood the overall message.
[/quote]

Maybe, but It's also possible you didn't. Many folks (even those with lots of experience in the business) still mistake high cost for tighter tolerance. We are lucky here to have Tom share his knowledge and experience as very few (outside the manufacturers themselves) have taken the same amount of time/effort/cost to really study what those tolerances really are and share those results here.

[square]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1426190777' post='11130519']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426186833' post='11130037']
Interesting. Its very possible I misunderstood what the fitter was telling me. The second paragraph is actually exactly what he told me. So it's very possible I misunderstood the overall message.
[/quote]

Maybe, but It's also possible you didn't. Many folks (even those with lots of experience in the business) mistake high cost for tighter tolerance. We are lucky here to have Tom share his knowledge and experience as very few (outside the manufacturers themselves) have taken the same amount of time/effort/cost to really study what those tolerances really are and share those results here.
[/quote]

It is good that Tom Wishon participates on internet forums, but remember that he is also a businessman working to sell his products. Like most all businessmen, his commentary and opinions may be biased in favor of the products (and philosophical concepts) which he is trying to sell.

[playa]

Stock shafts have always played way softer than their aftermarket counterparts from my experience. I have hearrd that in the old days the stock shafts were very cheap and nasty but I think that has changed. I generally swap stock shafts out when I buy drivers. My current driver has the original shaft, but it is actually an aftermarket shaft that came stock.

[JustTheTips]

[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1426168940' post='11127881']
Just curious, is there any significant difference between, let's say, Diamana made for Titleist, vs. Diamana without the "made for"; or 757 Speeder for Taylormade vs. 757 you bought aftermarket.
[/quote]

200-300 bucks?

Seriously someone out there needs to buy a made for and real shaft and bang out some balls on trackman. I am guessing no one really wants to see those numbers.

[PJP1113]

I've heard and read that the Matrix Red Tie in the BioCell+ performs the exact same as the aftermarket version.

[buzlin]

The difference now vs before is that the shaft manufacturers are offering "made for shafts" as aftermarket and they're all getting similar graphics. You think all of a sudden OEMs put $300+ shafts into their clubs for hardly, if any, change in price? My own speculation of course.

[hayzooos]

[quote name='mwink822' timestamp='1426188926' post='11130291']
Taylormade did have a few proprietary shafts in their TP lineup, and not all that long ago. I suppose it would have been around 07 or 08 that they had the TP REAX Rombax shaft that was essentially a slightly more user friendly Rombax W and they also had the [b]Diamana Whiteboard 65 in the Tour Burner. [/b]

As for more and more companies using actual aftermarket shafts in their clubs, this is happening more and more, but you also notice a slight increase in price because of it. Rather than being $379-$399, drivers are now $429-$449. And if we take a look, irons haven't taken the same kind of sudden leap in price. The Ping G and i series irons have held steady at a certain price point for a number of years, Titleist AP irons have held at their price point for a number of years as have their CB and MB irons. Same for Mizzy and Taylor. Just an observation.
[/quote]

That was the biggest POS I've ever hit. Going from a 'real' Whiteboard to that thing...what an insult.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1426194124' post='11130849']
[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1426190777' post='11130519']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426186833' post='11130037']
Interesting. Its very possible I misunderstood what the fitter was telling me. The second paragraph is actually exactly what he told me. So it's very possible I misunderstood the overall message.
[/quote]

Maybe, but It's also possible you didn't. Many folks (even those with lots of experience in the business) mistake high cost for tighter tolerance. We are lucky here to have Tom share his knowledge and experience as very few (outside the manufacturers themselves) have taken the same amount of time/effort/cost to really study what those tolerances really are and share those results here.
[/quote]

It is good that Tom Wishon participates on internet forums, but remember that he is also a businessman working to sell his products. Like most all businessmen, his commentary and opinions may be biased in favor of the products (and philosophical concepts) which he is trying to sell.
[/quote]

If you want to be skeptical then I doubt there is anything I can say to change your mind but in all the reading I've done here (including his articles as well as posts), I've haven't seen even the slightest hint that Tom's motives are anything but an attempt to help others and expand peoples knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. And no, I'm not very trusting by nature. In fact, if you look closely, it's pretty clear he goes out of his way to avoid particular references to his own products and only responds with info about them when explicitly asked about them. In the particular post I was referencing, he wouldn't even name the specific models from other shaft manufacturers where he had seen the higher (or lower) variations to avoid creating any bias. I may not agree with everything he says or all his conclusions, but the doubt doesn't come from any question or concern about his motives.

[square]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1426248690' post='11134651']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1426194124' post='11130849']
[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1426190777' post='11130519']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426186833' post='11130037']
Interesting. Its very possible I misunderstood what the fitter was telling me. The second paragraph is actually exactly what he told me. So it's very possible I misunderstood the overall message.
[/quote]

Maybe, but It's also possible you didn't. Many folks (even those with lots of experience in the business) mistake high cost for tighter tolerance. We are lucky here to have Tom share his knowledge and experience as very few (outside the manufacturers themselves) have taken the same amount of time/effort/cost to really study what those tolerances really are and share those results here.
[/quote]

It is good that Tom Wishon participates on internet forums, but remember that he is also a businessman working to sell his products. Like most all businessmen, his commentary and opinions may be biased in favor of the products (and philosophical concepts) which he is trying to sell.
[/quote]

If you want to be skeptical then I doubt there is anything I can say to change your mind but in all the reading I've done here (including his articles as well as posts), I've haven't seen even the slightest hint that Tom's motives are anything but an attempt to help others and expand peoples knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. And no, I'm not very trusting by nature. In fact, if you look closely, it's pretty clear he goes out of his way to avoid particular references to his own products and only responds with info about them when explicitly asked about them. In the particular post I was referencing, he wouldn't even name the specific models from other shaft manufacturers where he had seen the higher (or lower) variations to avoid creating any bias. I may not agree with everything he says or all his conclusions, but the doubt doesn't come from any question or concern about his motives.
[/quote]

I never wrote that he directly pushes his own products. I wrote that his equipment opinions always support his product line..For example, , he sells moderately priced shafts so in discussions about expensive highly advertised branded shafts he typically will report that his findings are inconclusive towards any performance gains. And regarding the common topic of driver head size, his reports support the head size which his own line offers.
Someone looking for an endorsement of expensive hot rod aftermarket shafts would get that from either the shaft's manufacturer or from one of its authorized dealer club repair shops. For example, in this thread a particpant reported his "fitter" had told him that an expsnive shaft may have a small benefit. He planted the seed.. The customer did not buy, but since the thought was planted he may buy at a future date.

[Stuart_G]

My response was specifically addressing his motives and intent so it should be clear that I completely disagree with your assesement of what you think his motives are. The fact that you have not presented any actual evidence or data to back up the claim makes it unconvincing in my mind.

And I did say I doubted it would change your mind.

[misplacedtexan83]

Only difference I have noticed is the torque is different and the flex can be off. I had two Callaways I had to swtich out shafts because they were measuring below their listed flex.

They did right by me and let me get an upgraded shaft for free.

[jrr]

I think there is another difference in "real" versus "made for", if my one shaft OEM situation is normal. Bought a pulled Matrix Red Tie [ with .1 at the end]. Was having great issues with the consistentcy. Fitter pulled and found it to be out of round using a frequency machine.

Now the difference. Called Matrix and they wouldn't touch it. Said to go back to the club OEM and not their issue. When I pushed back that it was their name on the shaft, was told "we give them exactly what they want" end of the conversation and I mean it was really the end, like they hung up.

[hayzooos]

[quote name='jrr' timestamp='1426254871' post='11135159']
I think there is another difference in "real" versus "made for", if my one shaft OEM situation is normal. Bought a pulled Matrix Red Tie [ with .1 at the end]. Was having great issues with the consistentcy. Fitter pulled and found it to be out of round using a frequency machine.

Now the difference. Called Matrix and they wouldn't touch it. Said to go back to the club OEM and not their issue. When I pushed back that it was their name on the shaft, was told "we give them exactly what they want" end of the conversation and I mean it was really the end, like they hung up.
[/quote]

I have no doubt Matrix gives them 'exactly what they want' but I'd have a hard time believing anyone would request a shaft being oblong. Unless you're sporting a Hammer driver with the shaft that 'cuts through the air like a sword!!!'

[T.Beau]

made for shafts are quite often every bit as good (high quality) as their aftermarket counterparts. what typically happens is that the made for shaft plays soft to flex to satisfy the male ego who can proclaim they play stiff shafts (when they are actually playing a softer shaft). they also may have the shaft tweaked to perform best w. a particular head it will be fitted with

there is no reason why an OEM would use an inferior shaft.....what major manufacturer would market a driver w. a non performing shaft? the answer is they wouldnt.

manufacturing a golf shaft is a very simple inexpensive process these days w. so many shafts made in china. charging what they charge for some high end shafts is just taking advantage of suckers IMO. it's HUGE profit margins

there is (of course) always the occasional exception. like if someone just cant find a made for shaft which plays stout enough because their batspeed is so high. but often/sometimes these players cant control their batspeed anyway

[Kelco]

I always figured that the big OEMs, with their huge buying power and economy of scale, could probably have pretty close to after market shafts made for them. I have some older Fujikura shafts that were made for Tade Moore, a very small company. Those I have big questions about.

[bellview17]

[quote name='mwink822' timestamp='1426181010' post='11129335']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1426180367' post='11129255']
Whether that's a $25 shaft or a $800 shaft.
[/quote]

We have a winner...buy this man a mood adjusting beverage!
[/quote]
Buy that man a fine American Macrobrew......

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Im here because i just bought a set of honma Tw 747p irons and it has nippon 950 gh shafts stock in them which seemed fine to me. I read the shaft more closely the other day and bamm... made for. First shaft i have noticed out of any clubs i have had to say that. That being said... its playing just fine for me from what i can see. The club is doing what im asking of it to the ball and if i have had any other shafts before without realising it i never noticed it. I guess its not really that big of a deal is what im saying. If im a pro i might be pretty pissed but im not and its just fine lol.

[cristphoto]

I've seen shafts with the wording "Made for (xxxx) such as Titleist drivers from several years ago. Do the manufacturers have to print "Made For" on their shafts to identify them? Or some other identifying words? I would think it would be unethical if they weren't marked different.

[Thayneil]

i doubt if Nippon NSPro 95 shafts are any different it not like they can be made of different materials.

they maybe slightly softer in flex but only maybe

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Yeah quiet confusing what is the actual difference? I guess maybe its watered-down a tad but how would i know i never hit the real shafts... so yay for me its still working just fine.

[storm319]

You really can’t make a blanket statement as it really depends on the specific model. Ex: Titleist NSPro 970 was similar to the 950 but Titleist requested a stiffer tip which resulted in a few grams more static weight and a slightly lower balanced point, so in this case the made for version was actually stiffer than the aftermarket.

Also, steel is much less variable from a design perspective (also produced in the same facility as the aftermarket versions) compared to composites which is more of what this thread was focused on.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Stop all this astronaut talk to me and just say im right lol.

[third-times-a-charm]

Uhhh...are you saying this because there's a logo that says "S FOR SHAFT"

That doesnt mean its a made for shaft, that just means is certified to be made in Japan.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Who are you And who do you work for!?!? (In austin powers england voice)

[third-times-a-charm]

I had a feeling you were going on about nothing....

There's no such thing as a 'made for' Gh series shaft with a '5' in the weight class nomenclature.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Not on about nothing... ive heard these rumors of made for shafts for a few yrs now.. and finally got one that says made for on it... so i thought ive been had arrrrr!... why did i turn into a pirate there?