TM ventus blue vs. Velocore ventus blue?

[GoGoErky]

One may want it but it may not be what they need. There’s lots of golfers who won’t load or release that shaft in a manner that works for them.

[nikeblades00]

Interesting and makes alot of sense..

[JackpotJohnny]

I really think that we did this. And by we I mean the WRX-ish population of the golfing public.

Manufacturers like TM have proven that to an extent they will listen to what the niche golfer is asking for.

We want a frankenwood, we get a mini driver. We want an driving iron. We get one. We don’t like white drivers, we get a black R1. 10 years ago you used to get a proprietary shaft your driver. Some MFG’s like ping and JDM’s still do it. If you wanted something different, you paid an upgrade to either get some other better proprietary shaft they had made, or you’d get an aftermarket shaft painted exactly like the proprietary one. That was not good enough because no proud golfer wants to pull out a brand new driver with a stock looking shaft. And I think the answer to that has been this private label type of shaft thing we have going on now.

I really have no idea how it actually works, but in my head it goes like this:

TM- we need a shaft for next years driver.

Shaft MFG- this is our hottest shaft out right now. Look at This 20 page thread on golfwrx in the tour section.

TM- oh yeah that’s hot fire. Let’s put that in our driver. how much?

Shaft MFG- with R&D, material cost, overhead and what we give out for free, it will need to retail @ $350 to recoup and meet our projected margin.

TM- too much, what if I tell you we want 1m units based on sales projections?

Shaft MFG- We can probably get it down to $150

TM- that’s still to much. What other options do we have?

Shaft MFG- well can can give you the same basic profile, make it without any of the special materials. Call in the same thing with slight nuance difference, or even call it a 1-off with some special color or something. It will fit a broader range of golfers and at the same time make homer golfers think they are getting the hottest shaft, that they don’t really need anyways.

OEM- sounds good how much?

Shaft MFG- Should get you down around $75, but if we can get Callaway and Titleist on board for 1m each you can all have them for $25 each

TM- Done. But what do we do if we get called out for it by the WRX police?

Shaft MFG- just tell them you don’t know $hit. Send them to us and then we will send them back to you. Sooner or later they get tired and give up.

TM- brilliant!

 

[KevCannon]

Well said, lol.

[bogeypro]

I have the made for ventus. The profile on that shaft fits me better than the velocore.

[WristySwing]

That is actually closer to reality than what most people realize. I was in a seminar with the fitting director of Callaway in Carlsbad, his fit staff, and the tour van fitters one day a couple of years ago. Someone brought up what the difference was between their stock T800 and the real-deal T1100 (this was back when Epic was released). The head fitter had no idea what a T1100 was. One of the other fitters jumped in and explained the material difference and how the T800 is a lighter weight, smoother profile for the mass public. The same attendee then asked how they chose stock shafts as it seemed like a lot of the matched shafts were always either the hot new shafts or beat the curve slightly. The answer from the head fitter was "we always reach out to the shaft OEMs and see what shaft they are putting the most marketing dollars behind that year and we then go with that one."

It makes total sense. For companies where the head is paramount and the shaft is an afterthought, why wouldn't they do this? No shaft is ever going to be a bad match in a head, it will only be a bad match for that specific golfer. So if they go with the marketing dollars and pair with a more user friendly design (softer, more torque, no T1100, whatever), they are going to be successful more often than not. And if that softer, user friendly design does happen to be a bad fit they can point to the one of X number free shafts they offer or the other Y number of upcharge shafts they have and say "well one of these will definitely work!" The only companies who don't follow this philosophy I am aware of are Ping and Srixon. Both of these companies manufacturer or co-engineer their own stock shafts that statistically do prove to work best in those heads based on robot and player trials. However, they too feel the heat from the marketing machine and have to offer other shafts or the common consumer feels that the driver isn't worth as much because it doesn't have the hot new and cool $500 shaft in it like the one Rory or Dustin used last week to win.

[swh0507]

Was the Aldilla shaft offered in the G400 a watered down copperhead? I feel like no manufacturer is immune from this.

The stock Ventus will probably fit a lot of people. No manufacturer wants a stock shaft that won't perform in general fittings at demo days, golf galaxy, pga superstore etc. I liked the stability and profile of the velecore Ventus Blue and went with that. Through about 16 rounds I am having an amazing driving year.

[WristySwing]

It was real. You hear a lot about the Xtorsion stuff as being real vs. not on here because of the different weights and such. They were all real, everything Aldila puts out is real. It's just your TX designations are your "tour" product and get touted as the real stuff while your mere mortal shafts like your stiffs, reg, and standard X get lumped into the made-for category. Adding to that, Aldila had two X-Torsions they released kind of back to back. You had the Copper and the Green, where the Green was purely aftermarket and the Copper was available as no-charge in Ping and Taylormade. Only difference was the launch profile, green was lower flight and spin and more counterbalanced.

Mitsubishi and Aldila make it a bit confusing as their "real", aka the tour/expensive aftermarket product, is always marked as TX while the generally available stuff is always marked just as X. Even this is not immune as they now have X and TX in the RF/BF/DF/ZF lines now too. So who knows.

[Dertymic]

Chalk me up as one who ordered the shaft online thinking it was the real thing and noticed the velcore missing when it arrived. Very unimpressed that I have been fooled by Taylormade into thinking this was actually the ventus one would think it is based on all other markings. I guess I will give it a try and hope I can get that out of my head. Driver speed 105+ so hoping it will still perform okay. Steam coming out of my ears as I type this. Thanks for the info guys, should have done a bit more research sooner I guess but I didn't think I was being intentionally misled by Taylormade.

[sirparalot]

I have the Tour Edge Ventus with the 4T core and I have to say I'm impressed with it. It feels and performs like the velocore that I tested prior to the shutdown. I went to a softer shaft this year as I'm slowing down a bit and am seeing 8 yards more carry on my new EXS220 driver vs my Epic with the Fuji Pro (218 vs 226).

[GoGoErky]

If ordering from from the TM website or a place like TGW you have to customize the order to get either ventus shaft and they list the velocore version as ventus w/velocore and it’s an upcharge of $250. While there is confusion about the shafts the online dealers make it relatively easy to tell if you are getting the real deal one or not

 

[storm319]

TXG comparison posted today. The end result for Matt's 120mph+ swing was similar with the velocore aftermarket version delivering the club slightly more efficiently/consistently, but not a night and day difference like some people would like to believe (and my guess is that the differences will be less pronounced at lower swing speeds).

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

From a dispersion standpoint though, the OEM non-velcore definitely turned over more and had wider dispersion for him, which makes sense for someone with his speed with a softer shaft. Likely less of a difference at slower speeds though, as you mentioned.

[nikeblades00]

thank you for posting! interesting..

[enfuego]

Seems to be a slightly softer shaft in the non-velocore version. The main difference most people notice is the forgiveness at impact on slightly off center strikes. They touched on it a bit.

[serveitup911]

Interesting. I watched the same video and thought it was a huge difference based on the dispersion and strike pattern differences.

[third-times-a-charm]

So the difference....is essentially WHY people want the Ventus. Dispersion, consistency, and feel.

Is it a HUGE difference? No - but this is golf and lets face it - buying something new to gain 1MPH here or 10yds here is the whole reason for our equipment.

To dismiss the VELOCORE version because the difference is 'so small' I think is disingenuous.

I can tell from the TXG video Ian & Matt are trying not to trash the TM version too bad since they're pretty buddy-buddy with TM, but the video speaks for itself. I would agree the made for TM version is not at all a bad shaft, but it's still a ways away from the VELO version and the VELO is still worth the upgrade for ANY player if they can afford it.

[J13]

I agree. The difference is massive from a consistency and dispersion point of view. They are completely different shafts and the whole Ventus platform is centered around consistency of strike. Its one of the many ways that shaft companies and OEM's are playing shadow games and tricking the consumer. I have zero problem with stock shafts but don't paint them to be identical other than some small font in the tip section.

[storm319]

To be fair, a player like you is an anomaly as consistency is really the only room for improvement in your game. For a player of your caliber or someone playing competitively at a high level, those numbers were a huge improvement and the additional $200-300 upgrade may be worth the investment (especially for those that monetize golf). However for the vast majority of the golfing population these differences are negligible and most of the time do not correlate to any real world improvement in terms of score.

Just curious, when it comes to all of your testing and annual bag overhaul efforts (which btw is entertaining to observe), have you ever tracked any metrics in an effort to correlate the impact of a particular equipment change to your score?

[Hammer22]

This sums it up nicely.

Have the Ventus Blue 6X (with VeloCore) in my G410 LST and took it out on the course with a Sim driver that had the "TM" Ventus Blue 6X as well. Both clubs were the same length and the same swing weight. Found that the Sim was a hair shorter most of the time and would spin off slightly right. Otherwise, it felt pretty similar and most golfers out there probably aren't going to know the difference. I only went with the VeloCore version in my driver and 3-wood since I got them new for about half price - couldn't pass them up and pleased so far, even with an occasional errant shot from either club.

[fastnhappy]

I watched the txg video and thought the difference was huge.

[GoGoErky]

Other than standard deviation the numbers were pretty close, both Ian and Matt said that. Matt didn’t hit the ball as far to the right with the velocore version but he was also starting the ball further left with it

[J13]

Glad you enjoy my WITB it's fun testing stuff for sure. With that said I think a more consistent shaft would help a higher hcp player even more as they need more help finding the center. If a setup provides that for a player (regardless of hcp) it will help them at least hit more fairways or better misses. Whether or not it's worth the upgrade depends on if a player (again regardless of hcp) values golf and more consistency. I know scratch players who just go out and play for fun and usually just use the stuff they've been fit into at a local golf galaxy. Rarely do they use an exotic shaft, usually stock stuff.

 

Metrics - I go off and on with tracking metrics just depends on how busy i am and how into golf i am at that moment (referring to long term tracking). When i test I always keep track of what i'm looking for. For example, I've been testing a few driver shafts recently just to see if they outperform what i have. This this case i'm looking at two things, 1. Dispersion 2. Distance. Then underneath those categories i'm tracking fwys hit, how far off the fairway i am on misses, total distance and carry distance. This is all done on course btw. So basically a shaft gets 2-3 rounds and i add up all the numbers and avg them out to see if it's the same, better or worse then what i've got.

Over the long haul I don't keep track though as I don't want to lol. It's time consuming and i enjoy playing for fun and money games. Scoring is really the end all be all and I can usually see a positive trend in my HCP when i have the right stuff in the bag. More fairways means more greens which means more birdies/pars.

[t4t3r]

As with anything, people should draw their own conclusions based on the video and more importantly, their own testing, and both Matt/Ian mentioned this. I would think most people interested in that video would have a little bit of knowledge about the Ventus line, but if not, the analogy they presented paints the results in an even more clear picture. I'm glad to see the improved consistency and dispersion matches up well with the tech/marketing.

It's an easy choice to make when you're a big fan of Ventus Black. :)

[J13]

Agree but if your on golfwrx it's kinda like the Matrix. Once you take the red pill there's no going back ;-)

[kryptic4l]

well my 80 dollar cad ebay ventus just showed up that i will be putting on my original epic driver. I swung it and loved it, as im a bit to wild for the 55gram hazordous that came with it. hopefully will make me a bit more consistent. at the end of the day for me, i will have better returns on investment putting my money into lessons or swing aids, then i would be rocking a 400 dollar shaft :)

[Lobber]

I have hit both the made for and the real enthusiasm Blue Velocore in the Sim Max. No comparison in terms of dispersion, spin, etc. There is a reason the real deal is an up charge. The made for gave me a bad case of the lefts while the real deal was steady down the middle.

[Duper]

So maybe the best solution is to play up a flex in the Non-Velocore version ? Got fit into Ventus Blue Velocore 5R in my Sim driver, might try a Non-Velocore Blue 6S in my fairway to see how it feels...

[justcallmemoses]

On 6/3/2020 at 6:48 PM, Valtiel said:

From a dispersion standpoint though, the OEM non-velcore definitely turned over more and had wider dispersion for him, which makes sense for someone with his speed with a softer shaft. Likely less of a difference at slower speeds though, as you mentioned.

are you Chris TXG in disguise 🥸 

[Pepperturbo]

On 2/14/2020 at 3:49 PM, nikeblades00 said:

i called Fujikura to ask them some questions and he said they have no info on specs and have to ask TM. So there you have it.

The OEM's that sell aftermarket shafts and "Made for", are told to stay mum.  They don't want people thinking "made for" is different, as they are less likely to buy.  I still haven't figured out the formula that OEMs use to include $350 aftermarket shafts in their stock retail woods that sell for at most $500.  I wonder how long that can last.  I see a lot of Red ink, but that's another subject.

 

I haven't hit a Ventus shaft that doesn't have Velocore.  For most people that golf, "made for" shafts are fine.  Both my wood shafts are Ventus aftermarket with Velocore and cost $350ea.  Not even sure I could tell the difference.  All I know is the ones I have are why I am still hitting the ball longer than guys much younger than me.  The other day this 70yr old, in benign conditions, hitting uphill tee shot the ball finished over 300yds.  Thank you Fujikura for the shaft ... and Titleist for the ball.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Pepperturbo