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Why can't I hit my new irons to a consistent distance?


Hubb1e

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New member here. 15 handicap. Good with irons but tend to hit off the toe when I mishit.

I recently upgraded from 20 year old Taylor Made 360 irons to a set of custom built Callaway Apex 19 Forged irons. Old irons were traditional cavity back. New irons are categorized as players distance irons. Both have the same fit.

My new 3 iron will go 230 yards or 130 yards and not even make it far enough to reach the fairway. My new 7 iron will typically go 160 yards but will often will fly 175 yards or drop out of the air at 120 yards. I can't control the distances of my new irons and I spent a fortune custom fitting them to my swing. Why is this happening? This was never an issue with my old irons. A bad hit would go 10-20% shorter but I never had balls fly over the green or completely fall out of the air. What is going on with my new equipment?

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I’d highly recommend getting some foot spray and figuring out how much different impact spots are Effecting your distances.

those differences seem extreme, my only theory is the huge distance gains are center of the face strikes where the new technology benefits you more, regular distances are mediocre strikes where technology helps you some and the dead balls are close the the heel or toe so you don’t get any spring from the club face and the modern lifts cost you spin, so they fall out of the air.

 

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Strike quality is your answer. Tech or no tech, irons will not have 50 yard distance discrepancies. Not super familiar with the Apex irons, but they're pretty forgiving no? You might lose 10 yards on toe or heel strikes but 40, 50? You're probably hitting it heavy. If they have a beveled edge, it may mask the feeling of hitting it fat a bit, but not the result. My Mizunos have a pretty aggressive front edge grind which helps a ton on heavy shots. It's the difference between landing 15 yards short and 50 yards short. +1 on using foot spray to check impact.

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It also would not hurt to check your swing speed. Even strike being terrible that’s a large discrepancy. Maybe your last build had a weight that helped you get consistent swing speed

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Please give as detailed of a rundown as you can on the specs of the two iron sets. Shafts, length, swingweight etc etc. Without more specifics, it it just guesswork.

 

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I would say inconsistent strike is the biggest issue. Now that can mean a couple of things. It could mean you, as in the person swinging, are not hitting the ball properly because of inconsistent delivery. The other option is the fit is bad and it is causing you to be extremely inconsistent because you cannot feel the head. It might be a little bit of column A and column B. However, I would lean more towards column A in this scenario because even a horrifically misfit set someone could get used to it eventually and not have 100 yards of discrepancy in carry shot to shot. I've seen people who are playing 50g ladies flex irons with fat wide soles who are very shallow and swing a 6i 92mph still not have 100 yards of carry flux with their sets. If your miss is toe-side 9/10x that is because you are coming too far from the inside. When you get too stuck on the inside you typically stall and throw your arms at it. When you break your wrists (flip)/throw your arms at it you get a very inconsistent low point average that often manifests in extremely fat or thin strikes....typically fat since your squat and rotate is out of sync with your release.

As others have said, get some impact tape/foot powder spray and see where you are actually making contact. Then if you can get on a video lesson and see what the issue is. As of right now we can all only assume what is going on. If your low point control is good, you don't get stuck, and you are hitting it in the middle of the head --- then fit comes into question.

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First off for the first example, that is a well struck and a fatted shot. There is no way shape or form that decent strikes with the same club have a 100 yard difference. As far as the 160 to 170 and that is covered below. 170 to 120 isn't even realistic unless you are playing in 50+ MPH winds and hitting the ball all over the club face.

Many people think irons have hot spots, which is malarkey. All irons are not for everyone. For instance, I have a friend that is a low spin player, he tried the foam filled irons straight off the rack, the issue with his distance control was all spin related. He would sometime fly an 8 iron 150 yards and it would check on the front of the green and other times he would hit it 160 in the air to the middle and it would roll off the back. In his case the "extra" distance came from spin issues on some shots. He is especially poor at cleaning his grooves and playing in the dew in the morning would cause well struck shots to have low spin, he was essentially catching flyers because the grooves weren't helping channel the water away(Grooves don't really help spin with the current groove regulations, they help get water and grass out of the way so the friction between the ball and the clubface can occur. He also was launching his 7 iron at 16 or 17* with only 5800 spin, peak height of like 60 feet, with a descent angle of 45*. New irons his 7 iron is launching at 18, spinning 6800 has a peak height of almost 70 feet and a descent angle of 48*

Take them back to your fitter as you strikes are wildly inconsistent, maybe you hit them better indoors, and check your iron spin, and descent angle versus some LPGA and PGA tour averages. For instance if your 7 iron is launching at 16.5 and spinning only 4500 RPM peak height of 60 feet and has a descent angle of 42* it is a poor fit. If it is launching at 19 and spinning mid 6,000's peak height of 75 feet and has a descent angle of 46-50* then they are pretty good.

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Stop playing with those old range balls!!

Sorry, had to do it.

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OP, as a 15 the strike is for sure a variable, but couldn't agree more with @driveandputtmachine
A lot of fitters will get into the higher launch/lower spin mode, even with irons, because an effective way to sell clubs is to show how much longer they are than your prior set. That totally works for a driver but I think it can wreak havoc on irons. In my recent fitting I really had to push for 1) lower than average launch and 2) higher than average spin, no preference on club head or shaft, we're erring on the side of consistency. Yes my new 7 iron goes shorter than my old one, but my dispersion has massively improved.

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Height 6'3"
Old: Taylor Made 360 +1 inch +2degrees upright
New Callaway Apex 19 Forged +1inch +2degrees upright Nippon 1050GH Parallel Stiff@gators78 is absolutely correct that the fitter focused on smash factor in the iron fitting. I went in looking for consistency, and came out with +10 mph in extra ball speed. My experience is that +10 mph ball speed for on center hits came at a cost in consistency for off center hits.@driveandputtmachine the 3 iron shots are off the tee and were not hit fat. I can see the mark from the ball on the club and the ball strike was off center +8-10mm towards the toe. A very poor strike but still on the grooves. I can feel a dead spot on the clubface there when I bounce a ball off the face of the club. I would hit that spot with my old 3 iron and I would be short but still at least reached the fairway. I was in play at least. I'm normally a decent iron player. It was the only bright spot of my game. My 15 handicap comes from my driver getting me in the woods and too many 3 putts.
I sometimes have a poor strike but I didn't expect to get less forgiveness when I went to a club with a hot face. Is the issue only my strike? I can work on that. But I can't help but feel no confidence in the new equipment.

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@Hubb1e as a couple others have said your issues are likely related to the face design.
When you pure one you get a combination of spin and ball speed that goes forever. The differential between pure hits and mishits is actually going to be larger on your new clubs than your old clubs.
A mishit on the new club should probably go further than the same mishit on the old club so I don't understand that aspect of what you're seeing.

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@jvincent What I am seeing is that pure hits go forever. Off center hits go about the same as my old irons. Very poor hits go absolutely nowhere. The net result is a large differential in distance between pure, off center, and poor hits that is causing me issues in estimating the distance to the green. I went from being able to put a shot on average within 10 yards of my target distance which would put me on the green in most scenarios, to being able to put a shot within 20 yards which puts me in a front bunker or flying the green. This seems to be the result of the face design. Is there a different face design that would give me more distance consistency with my poor strike consistency?
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What you described are bladed irons...You need to middle one to get a certain distance. Mishit results in distance loss, big mishit results are horrendous. Game improvement iron designs (hollow body, wrap around faces, etc) are engineered to minimize energy loss to the ball when struck in areas where the club would be less stable, away from the middle of the club face.

I actually remember hitting the 2016 Apex model and you could throw a blanket over the dispersion, very consistent irons and I'm not exactly a ball striking savant. I mean there is the small chance your irons have a manufacturing defect such as a substandard face weld as there's no such thing as zero defect manufacturing, but your best bet is going to be improving strike. What you're after is paradoxical because you think a forgiving iron face design is causing distance inconsistency but if you go to a more traditional iron design, you will see distance inconsistency.

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In terms of distance variance, a traditional forged cavity back is probably going to the best for consistent distance control. A pure hit won't go as far as the newer distance irons but small mishits won't be noticeably shorter.

Nothing can help a really terrible, think bladed, shot.

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I have a similar handicap, but I'm a senior golfer and my swing speed is substantially less; however, I played the CF19's for the better part of year and just couldn't find the consistency that I was looking for. Some shots were the exact distance I was looking for and others were horrendously short of what I expected and yet, they felt pretty good. Perhaps not center of the face, but just a little off center. I chalked it up to my less than perfect strikes. I really enjoyed playing the CF19's but came to the realization that if I wanted more consistent distances off less than center of the face strike, it would have to be with a more "game improvement" type iron. So I shopped around and found something that is a little less forgiving and provides me with much better distance control. At least, that's my opinion after playing about 15 rounds with them.

I have to concur that it's probably the quality of the strike and there's only two solutions... more forgiving clubs or more consistent strikes.

At my age, it came down to more forgiving clubs.... unfortunately, because I still enjoy playing the CF19's and highly recommend them. As a matter of fact, I routinely take them to the range to hit them.

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@ThreeBoxers You got me thinking about the dispersion of blades vs hollow face irons so I went out and found an interesting video. I can't post links yet but it's on YouTube called "The Best Golf Irons Blade or Cavity" In this video the host uses statistical analysis with an actual statistician to analyze the distance dispersion of a 1980s Top flight blade vs a max game improvement Callaway Mavrik. His results are the opposite of what you just said. He got more consistent results even on off center hits with the Blade. He is a good ball striker but his results are similar to my own experience. I've only ever hit a blade once but my traditional cavity back irons felt more consistent to me.
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I honestly believe distance irons make you worse. Yes your best shots will go further - but your misses will be worse. Your dispersion will be larger. And even when you do hit target - some of these things are so low spin that they just roll to the back fringe (on fast greens)

 

mark cross field just did a video on this and he proves that Distance irons have a larger dispersion than blades (front to back). Go back to what works.

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That's not true, they're just manufacturing methods. Given identical materials and club head shape, that would have no impact. Just that forged irons tend to be smaller players irons.@Hubb1e , I think I found the video you referenced, and someone else did too. Definitely interesting results, though with any statistical analysis, inputs will weigh heavily and Mark's definition of "very poor" strike being about 5mm from center may be a far cry from the atrocities that us hackers are capable of committing with an iron, especially a long iron. Data may change as we stray further from center, but that's just speculation on my part.
I tend to fall somewhere between. I don't buy marketing hype of smoking hot distance and vague "performance" statements, but tend to stay away from low MOI clubs. Since I'm an Arrow Not the Indian kind of guy and I smell the 'blades will/won't make you a better player' grill firing up, I'm gonna make like Snoop Dogg and drop this like it's hot. There's no universal truth to what's best, roll with what works for you. Best of luck finding the right sticks.

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I don't believe equipment will make me better either. That's why I've been playing the same irons since 2001. But I felt like it was time to try something new and in this case the new irons made me worse. I just want to get back to where I was. I could go back to my 20 year old sticks but they are pretty worn out at this point. I just wish I could get back out to the fitter to clear all this up but sadly they are still closed.

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I"d be on the phone to my fitter and setting up a time to go back in and see what's going on with the irons. You shouldn't be getting those types of results with a properly fit set of irons. When I got my fitting earlier this year at TrueSpec, the fitter, after watching me hit a bunch with my current irons, focused on increasing the spin on my irons, not on distance but on consistency. So far they seem to be working well when I put a decent swing on them.

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There isn't an iron that exists (without being damaged) that would punish off center strikes by 100 yds unless you are hitting it fat or damn near missing the ball.

Most likely you have a significant variance in delivery (speed, AoA, dynamic loft) within your swing that when combined with drastic mishits show the results you are seeing. The only other factor could be dead golf balls like a 10 year old range ball that's been sitting in a lake vs a brand new tour ball.

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Yes, that is what I was saying, they're totally different methods of manufacturing. Investment Casting allows for the creation of complex geometries that can push center of gravity lower and push more weight to the perimeter. Harder to do with forging since you are limited to striking a solid (though red hot and malleable) piece of metal a few times into shape. However, it is the design of the club, not the method of manufacturing that determines the characteristics. You can forge a head with a wide sole and low COG, and you can easily cast a blade, but this is off topic.

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I bought a set of Honma XP-1's and I'm getting consistent distances even on some slight mishits and better spin numbers. I'm still sort of evaluating them, but on the one round when I played my CF19's, I found that I was back to distance variances from what I was expecting. I know this was due to me mishitting, not the clubs.

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One possibility that wouldn't necessarily show up indoors is sole design and turf interaction. You may have a real problem with the newer clubs because of a sole design that doesn't work for your swing. That's hard to tell when hitting inside off a mat. If so, you'd see major distance inconsistency because of strike.

The feedback I've seen on the players distance irons is exactly what you're describing... difficult to control distance.

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Ha... I feel your pain, my friend... Your old irons probably aren't worn out, though! I just upgraded from 1996 Taylor Made Burners into... 2012 Adams CMBs... they had been a dream set of mine, and I picked up heads on the cheap here for a fun side project.

I have hit a ton of modern irons, and honestly, the "player's distance" set has 0 appeal to me... I don't like how they feel, and the variance between good strikes and bad is just too big. I also don't need additional distance on my irons. If your misses aren't that bad but the results are, something is wrong. Either it's a terrible fit / build for you or something is off on the construction of the club itself... Hopefully you can take them to your builder and get things corrected.

Though for the right price, I'll sell you a +1 set of Adams I just had the lofts and lies check on (they are -2 lie, but the length makes up for it!) 5-PW... New midsize grips... I'll go back to my old Taylor Mades :-)

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The only piece missing here is what shaft was in the Taylormade irons.
I think we're barking up the wrong tree here in debating the pros/cons of different face tech and modern vs. older irons. I would be willing to bet that the OP had heavier shafts in in the 360's and the Nippon 1050GH is a noticeable drop in weight. If i'm right, then that very commonly leads to an increase in face closure rate which will result in both toe strikes AND very little delivered loft. This creates a useless knuckleball when you miss it on the toe. @Hubb1e, please confirm the old shaft model if you can.

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I would think it’s a combination of mishits and the fact that you switched from cast irons to forged. It could also have something to do with the shafts.

I played Cobra Amps for a while with great yardage and location results, but was kind of disappointed with the feel. So, I tried out Mizuno JPX EZ forged. I played these for like 10 rounds and was getting weird yardages, just like you. The last round I played, I tried some comparison tests on an empty course. I absolutely pured a 7 iron onto the middle of a Par 3 green. I pulled a 6 iron and absolutely pured it also. The 6 iron went like 5 feet further than the 7 iron. I’ve played enough golf in my life to know when I pure an iron shot, so I know it couldn’t purely be my ball strike; so it must be the shafts or heads or something else (maybe they were counterfeit, haha? maybe I was setting up wrong and the lofts were off between the two irons?); who knows, but I do know those weren’t the irons for me so I sold them on eBay the next day for a $150 loss. I switched back to Cobra Amps and I’ll never switch again. For some unknown reason the ugly orange foil Cobra Amps just work for me.

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      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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