I Forgot How to Grip a Club but Still Crush My Irons

[skaileh]

It's not as extreme as it sounds, but my golf swing has grossly regressed to the point where it feels like I don't remember how to swing a club properly. Long story short, I started golfing last September and began by taking lessons from a PGA regional trainer of the year. I and others think he is a great instructor. He got me up to speed quickly, and between a lot of deliberate practice and playing 4-7 times a week (often 36 holes a day), I went from a 110 player to a 90s player and a couple months back even breaking 90 multiple times. I was playing great. Then I got a driver crash course, was striping my driver and was really putting together some great rounds for the short time I've been playing.

My swing flaw had been slicing the ball right (as with most new golfers) from not turning my club face over. I stopped cupping my wrists at the top of my back swing, being mindful of keeping my wrist flat on the take back and keeping the toe pointed to about 11 or 12 oclock. This is where my issues seemingly began. I started to then lean my shaft forward and taking on a stronger grip in order to allow the club to close more quickly at impact and to get more compression on the ball with the down swing. It worked impeccably for a bit. I was hitting my irons further and straighter than ever, getting around 140 yards with my pitching wedge and being able to hit everything well. My hybrid was my "go-to" safety club for long fairway shots.

Fast forward. Now, I can no longer hit my hybrids, can't even put the face on the ball, all my driver shots are essentially topped ground balls. It's atrocious. Looking at my swing videos, my swing path, ball placement, tempo, all look good. But I have such an overly strong grip, that I have my club shaft leaned forward so far my grip is almost out in front of my stance. Obviously that is creating a huge issue with every non-iron in my bag because I am delofting the clubs so much, I'm taking spin off the ball and for the longest irons/woods I am hitting them way too low (or unable to hit them) to be productive.

I know how to grip a club properly, but I just cannot seem to train myself to go back to the proper neutral grip and swing method. I've comensated by just running with this bad grip, holding tight, and swinging thru my irons. It's gotten to the point where I can only play an entire round with my irons because I can't hit anything else, and I'm hooking my irons hard left if I swing too fast or hit them off a tee. I am not sure how to correct this. Gripping the club in front of me with a proper grip and minimal shaft lean feels foreign, and I cannot take a club back and then swing and make contact with a ball without reverting to my incorrect overly strong grip with forward shaft lean. After a few swings I just revert to it because I give up toe-ing balls off to the right skipping across the ground, and gain satisfaction seeing crushed straight iron shots even knowing this is not sustainable.

I just went thru shoulder surgery (unrelated) so I can't do anything more than chip and put right now anyway, but I'm lost as to how to correct this. My thought is that when I'm given the go-ahead from my doctor to take full swings, I should just take lessons again as if I've never golfed before and essentially re-learn to golf with the proper technique, and I'm sure the learning curve will be much shorter. But I just wanted to know if this has happened to anybody before and how you fixed it, or if anyone has any recommendations on how to get back to proper form otherwise. Before surgery I went back to my original instructor, who told me I needed to weaken my grip and take some forward lean out, I was just unable to actually do it in my two hours of lessons with him and 4 hours of practice on my own. I also saw a separate instructor, a friend who works at Golftec and worked with me for free. He said the same, but we were unable to correct it as well. I'm at a loss and would really appreciate any help or advice anyone can offer. Thanks in advance.

[LeftDaddy]

Without video and/or pics will be hard for people to diagnose. It’s likely that your overly strong grip and shaft lean over-compensated for an over the top swing path (you mentioned a slice). It works OK for short irons because they have natural loft. But likely doesn’t work for driver etc because you need the loft.

It is likely a “swing” issue that can be fixed over time by some setup fixes and proper rotation, shallowing, etc etc. A slightly strong grip is a good thing. A weak or neutral grip could be OK if you closed the face well on the downswing or flexed your lead wrist, but sounds like you cup it. I’ll bet that you don’t have the clubface square to your back line at shaft parallel on the downswing (P6) and close your wrist hard to square it by impact. It works for short irons due to being steeper / more vertical and more loft. But not for longer irons etc. Oh, and check your tilts for driver and longer irons. Need to have more tilt there, and ball needs to be slightly forward in your stance. Anyway, you will need to setup a little more “neutral” and then work on the appropriate balance, turn, wrist flexion, rotation, etc etc. Check your face angle at P2 and P6 (should be square to back line at both spots) and work from there.

This game takes a loooooong time to figure out. If you’ve broken 90 within a year of starting you are waaaaaaay ahead of the curve. Just do another lesson and work hard on proper setup, balance, turning, pivoting, rotation, etc. Don’t do like I did and ingrain years of bad habits before you get proper lessons and focus on proper swing mechanics, etc.

[skaileh]

Really appreciate the detailed response! Hard for me to visualize your hypothesis but I think I understood what you were suggesting might be happening. Here’s a video of a recent (poor) swing, definitely didn’t crush this one but unfortunately it’s the only recent-ish video I have. A lot wrong here, but it at least shows you the overly strong grip and let’s you visualize what I’m doing. Wish I had more swing videos or a side view. Hope this helps you diagnose. Thanks again for any advice you can suggest!https://youtu.be/nRHHP6gEE_I

[LeftDaddy]

I’m probably the last person on here that you should be getting swing advice from. There are plenty of guys that know a lot about the swing that I’m sure will step in to help.

Hard to tell a ton from that video given I couldn’t really slo-mo it like I’d need to and don’t have a face-on view etc. But overall swing looks pretty solid for having started so recently.

Your grip is way too strong for sure, especially the bottom hand. It doesn’t appear to me that you are terribly over the top. It does look like you lack rotation and width. It also looks like you have a ton of tilt for a shorter iron. All of that, combined with the strong grip, is probably why you hold everything off at impact and your arms shorten so much. You also throw the club into the ball without rotating your right side into it first.

Anyway, I’d work on weakening that grip and adding flexion to the lead wrist (don’t cup it) to start. But then you’ll need an instructor to help with rotation, getting wider, etc. But the swing is not bad overall, considering you are less than a year into the game. I’ll stop with the advice now and let the smarter guys take over!

[skaileh]

Thanks for the thorough response! I appreciate you mentioning not getting wide and not shifting weight with my hips and turning thru. Although this is one of my worse swings (I think I was caught up trying to take some off my swing trying to land that short green because usually I do a better job of following thru), those are two adjustments I’ve had my instructor recommend to me multiple times. Still working on them but this was not a good example. Either way I appreciate the kind words!

I think it’s the weakening the grip slightly part while still feeling like I have control over the club that I’ve been unable to execute. When I do weaken the grip and take the club back, it feels like I’ve never swung the club before and as if I have no control over the club face. It almost feels as though I “lose the club head” in the back swing. It’s a very odd feeling. This may be something where I really do just need to go see an instructor again when I’m recovered from surgery and start from scratch (at least with my grip, set up, and take back). Thanks again for your advice.

[LeftDaddy]

Yeah grip changes are hard. I’ve had to go the opposite way a bit. I had a really weak grip which was ultimately causing me to throw angles and release early, etc. I had to strengthen my grip by what felt like 45 degrees, and the first handful of range sessions were rough. I was hooking the ball like crazy. But after a relatively short time it started to feel slightly natural. The good news is I don’t really slice it anymore, though I still fight a hook.

Your face looked square to your back line at p6 which is actually a good thing, but your lead wrist was cupped a lot which was neutralizing the very strong grip.

Maybe if you slightly weaken the grip at setup, lean the handle more “vertical” (rather than forward), reduce that tilt, but add more flexion to the lead wrist in the backswing and downswing, it will help you start to get to a more natural face alignment?

It will take time and a lot of crappy shots to work it out...just know that going in. And work on getting some width in the backswing and rotating the body on the downswing and it will start to click again I hope. But don’t fret over it too much. I’ve probably gone through 20 grip changes in my life and / or have felt “lost” at least 10 times and actually quit twice because of it. Just remember that you are ahead of the game given where you are!

[skaileh]

Any suggestions of how to get back to a neutral grip and set up would be much appreciated! Seems as though I essentially need to learn to re-groove the correct neutral grip and set-up, and have it feel comfortable. Any advice regarding how to do this from anyone who’s ever had to do it would be great. Video attached for ease of reference. Thanks!https://youtu.be/nRHHP6gEE_I

[skaileh]

Really appreciate the feedback! Also appreciate you pointing out the cupped wrist negating the strong grip. Now I’ve just got to figure out how to start grooving the changes suggested. It feels completely foreign. If only I could make those small adjustments and not feel like I’m swinging a cooked noodle lol. The more I discuss, the more I reaffirm the easiest/best solution is likely to get back in with an instructor ASAP to start making these corrections incrementally and re-grooving them the correct way. Thanks again!

[CJ17]

Almost seems from that swing like you are hitting a trap draw on everything. Essentially de lofting every iron and taking off spin but still compressing it really well because of hitting down and finishing low.

[skaileh]

That’s essentially what I’m doing on every swing, which has worked great for my irons, but terribly for my woods and driver, and I can’t seem to revert to a more proper neutral grip, set-up, and swing without gripping the club hard and ripping thru. I try but it feels extremely awkward, and that’s where my problem lies.

[JustWingIt]

I play with a similar strong grip and fight the typical pull or over-drawing it. Same forward shaft lean with my irons and PW is about 145. My typical drive is a low (w/ 10.5 degree) pull and some left to right movement.

I had my first real lesson recently and learned I was putting similar shaft lean into my driver at address, de-lofting significantly. I'd start to have big driver issues when I got too quick with my shoulders turning over first. So I have to remind myself to start my downswing from the ground up and let my arms trail more. I've got my hands back more now at address, same strong grip, then I pretend like I'm pushing the ball to the right. That seems to have helped and I'm getting more air.

Since my strong grip worked so well with my irons and it was very comfortable, the Pro resisted his urge to change my grip and worked on other setup and tempo adjustments instead.

It would help if you posted a full driver swing.

[skaileh]

Really helpful to hear your anecdotal experience, thanks! Do you have issues holding greens due to de-lofting/taking spin off? I usually don’t until I get into my long irons but it’s definitely a concern. I’m essentially changing the trajectory and landing angle/spin of my attacking clubs, and cannot for the life of me hit my hybrids or driver. I’d love to not have to change my grip from what it is now considering how comfortable it is, however I question how productive that would be long term and through the rest of my bag.

I wish I could post a driver full swing video but I’m recovering from shoulder surgery and can’t do any motion past a baby chip shot at the moment unfortunately. When I get back to swinging driver I may have to revisit tempo and getting wide with the arms and seeing if that helps get the ball airborne again. One other thing with the driver is all my misses are far far out on the edge of the toe, top of the driver face (literally on the top edge of the driver face on the toe-side). Not sure if that’s helpful but seems like my mis-hits thru the bag with my current swing are toe’ed mis-hits. Thanks again for the input!

[JustWingIt]

I don't think so, at least for greens I reasonably expect to hit, and I'm not sure what my iron spin numbers are. If I'm 200+ out I'm just hoping to be greenside or in a bunker. But I'm comfortable hitting a 7-iron 180-185 knowing it's got enough height coming in to hold the green. I usually don't see too much movement from the ball mark when landing in a flat-ish area of the green.

I did see more rollouts though in previous years. That's when I decided to stick to 1 model golf ball that's a bit softer, and stop using whatever random ball I pulled out of the bag. Been happy with the Taylormade Project (a).

Short game is my nemisis and what my next lessons are focused on.

[skaileh]

Good to know. I also try to stick with one ball, softer high spin. I haven’t had trouble holding greens with my 6-GW but I’ve noticed lower spin numbers/ trouble stopping and much worse hooking with my 54 and my 60 which I don’t like. Think the de-lofting makes it difficult for the ball to really roll up the club face and give the grooves a chance to grab it.