Pro Golf’s Top-5 Greatest Over Achievers....

[sharkiesj]

Paul Runyan. Nickname “Little Poison”, he makes Corey Pavin look like Bubba Watson.

5’ 7”, he weighed 130 pounds. Couldn’t hit his driver out of his shadow but poisoned his competitors with his deadly short game. 2 PGA Championships and in the HOF.

[dalehead]

Fred always seemed to me to be a guy who just liked the life, and income, of a tour player. Oh, and the groupies.

[doublehans]

Of the current guys, I'm gonna lean into Justin Thomas, tho what he's still to achieve is up in the air. It just feels like throughout his whole game he's maxing out whatever talent he has in a way few players ever do.

As for all time, the names I'd mention have mostly already been shouted, Langer, Trevino, Vijay, Hogan, L/Nelson especially. I might throw Faldo in that mix just as there aren't many examples of a guy re-inventing his swing as a pro as much as he did.

[Qqq123xx]

Hubert Green. The guy would have like 5 cappuccinos before every shot. Eventually he cut it down to 2.

Tom Kite. Squeezed everything he had out of his game. And then some.

Larry Nelson. See post pg. 1.

Charlie Sifford. Enough said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iBanesto]

Shaun Micheel. 1 PGA Tour win.

[Valtiel]

Y.E Yang.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Lots of good comments here. From a European perspective, I'll back up those who said Langer, and I think doublehans's mention of Faldo is good. He went from being called "Foldo" to a six-time major champion.

What about Francis Ouimet? Came from a modest background (caddy) to win the US Open in 1913, and 2 US Amateur titles, and later became captain of the R&A.

 

[freowho]

Eamonn Darcy. 4 Ryder Cups.

Peter Senior. Won 34 tournaments, most in Australia but doesn't even look like a local club champion. One of my favourite players because he looks so unlikely but knew how to win. Won the Aussie Masters at 56yrs of age. Even though it wasn't much of an international field it was still full of the all the young up and coming Aussies less than half his age.

[gvogel]

Francis Ouimet - now you're talking! And supposedly a real gentleman as well.

[Forged4ever]

Hi Chris, thanks for the kind words

 

Yes, amongst another critical area of his game, ie., his swing knowledge, Hogan on myriad occasions took shots at Sam’s course management skills, and though Sam publicly played and laughed it off, privately, it angered and I believe, hurt him, because he had never taken a shot at Hogan, and I believe, though he denied it, that he looked up to Hogan.

 

Publicly, Sam had stated more than once that Hogan was like a big brother to him and Pete would get p!ssed at that statement cuz Pete WAS Sam’s big Bro, and Pete taught Sam how to swing, how to Play and whenever Sam needed THAT pair of eyes to look at his swing and help him get back on track, He ALWAYS came to Pittsburgh, NOT Fort Worth.

 

Pete didn’t care for Hogan, and one of Sam’s Best Friends on Tour, Lloyd Mangrum(pictured below with Sam & Bob Allen), REALLY REALLY didn’t care for Hogan, and Mangrum, a legit bad *ss, both in the military, where he won TWO Silver Stars, TWO Bronze Stars and a purple hurt, which he was embarrassed to wear, and off of the course, where he waded into a biker bar with his SW and left three bikers on the ground prior to his exit, considered Hogan a bully and constantly “baited” him in the locker room and mocked his “Hogan glare,” practically begging him to give it to Mr. Mangrum, however like most bullies, Hogan, who was smart enough and lacking in stones, ignored and steered clear of Lloyd Mangrum(pictured below in a swing pic and yea, where as Hogan dropped his schmag beside him prior to swinging, Lloyd’s never left his lips, lol) when he was on a high horse and Pete said towards the ends of their careers, Lloyd backed off of Hogan and though he was always a Professional in public when they either Played together or were in groups together, Sam had to constantly act as the buffer, if you will, and on the 1947 Ryder Cup Team, of which all three were members with Hogan the Captain, though he constantly worked through Sam to communicate with Lloyd regarding pairings, strategies, etc.

Aside from Hogan’s bullying and faux tough guy image, two other things that really really bothered Mr. Mangrum were that one, Hogan had picked up the nickname “wee iceman” by the European Press following his Open Championship win, and Lloyd had already picked up the nicknames of “Mr. Icicle” and “Iceman,” which he much preferred to the former, and he would chirp “wee iceman” within ear shot of Hogan in the locker room, putting extra special emphasis on “WEE,” lololol. Hogan ignored him.

 

Also, Mr. Mangrum, who could have taken a cushy military assignment at Ft. Meade Playing with and giving lessons to generals, declined and insisted that he be deployed to the battle front, where he served with Patton’s Third Army, and as this post did not start out to be about Lloyd Mangrum, I did a thread on him a few years back where I covered him, his career and his war accomplishments, which were incredible.

 

Anyhoo, he constantly chided Hogan for his military service, which was served in Ft. Worth, and while he went in as a Lieutenant and utility pilot, he spent his time Playing with and giving colonels and generals lessons, while Lloyd Mangrum killed nazis, saving his “brothers” in combat and taking a bullet from a sniper in Europe while pulling one to safety. The crazy thing is that there is an article out there if ya google “Professional Golfers who served in the military,” that lists TEN Tour Boys who served, and amazingly, Lloyd, who won more battlefield medals w/Valor(TWO Silver Stars & TWO Bronze Stars) THAN ALL TEN OF THOSE PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS PROFILED COMBINED, is NOT one of those ten Players???. HowITF this happens by someone who calls themselves a “Professional” writer is beyond me. Lloyd used to refer often to the picture below where Hogan reported for duty in a press op, smiling, carrying his bag of sticks and not a worry in the world about his upcoming military service. He joked that you NEVER saw Hogan smiling in a golf picture like he smiled as he entered the military, lolol. Minus the uniform, he looks like he’s heading off on a golf vacation with his wife, Valerie.

 

Though there was “Hogan’s Alley,” it was Lloyd Mangrum who won 4 LA Opens, the biggest event on the west coast and one of the largest outside of the Majors at the time.

 

The funny thing is that Sam also took a stateside posting in San Diego as an “athletic specialist,” and like Hogan, he entertained, Played with and taught Generals and Played PR exhibitions until he was discharged in 1944 for a wartime back injury, that while Lloyd would “lovingly” chide Sam about his own sniper bullet injury versus Sam’s overuse(my term as they didn’t use this description then), “over playing” injury, he never went at Sam in a serious mean spirited way because he really did love Sam like a Brother, and the feelings were mutual.

 

Apologies Chris, as I went waaaaaay off the tracks in answering your question, though Hogan and how he treated and talked to Sam contributed greatly to Lloyd Mangrum’s treatment and opinion of Hogan, though there was a lil professional resentment there, though how can ya blame a Man who has won more Tour events than Vijay, Lee, The Black knucklehead knight, Raymond Floyd, Hale Irwin & Norman, just to name a few, as he’s still in the Top-15(13) 80 years later, a Man who served & led and with extreme valor, and his US Open Victory was the stuff of legend amongst the only people that counted in Sam & Pete’s minds, the Players themselves, and I wrote of it in my above mentioned post. When asked afterward about the horrendous and dangerous conditions and his nonchalant almost arrogant strut down the middle of the fairway while his caddie, competitor and caddie went down under the cover of the tree line, he smiled, obviously thinking back to LEGITIMATE dangerous and pressure packed situations that he had faced in Europe, and he smiled one of his few smiles, shrugged and replied, “that’s wasn’t pressure.”

 

It’s just hard to speak of Hogan and Sam and not mention Lloyd Mangrum, cuz he was, as Sam affectionately referred to him, “my body guard,” lolol.

 

Stay Well Brother & Have a Great Week

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Forged4ever

[Forged4ever]

Great inclusion!!!

 

I’ll never forget the first time that I turned on the tube and he was leading and putting on the green and he happened to run a 10-15’ putt and I was like “WhoTF is this,” lolol???? That belly, that putter and that “waddle”/walk up the fairway??

 

Seems like a real nice & Classy Guy!!

 

Thanks for responding?

 

Cheers?

RP

[caniac6]

How about Brooks Koepka? Had to play the Challenge Tour-European Tour, before success on the PGA Tour.

[BNGL]

Zach Johnson has got to be in here, I think. To me he’s won at Augusta and St. Andrew’s, something not a lot of people have done. He’s a terrific putter accurate off the tee. But he predominantly draws it, doesn’t hit it the highest, isn’t long, but won and had a stretch there where he was there seemingly every week. I always thought he does the most with the least.

Jim Furyk. One major, a FedEx Cup Champion, PGA Tour Player of the Year. Shot 58...and 59. We all know his unorthodox swing, but not great length solid iron player solid putter great wedges but dang whoda thought he’d be the one to have the lowest score in history.

[Forged4ever]

Absolutely on the Zachster!!

 

If you or anyone here ever gets the opportunity, ask Jim who he considers the greatest overachiever in the game while he was Playing, lolol????

 

Thanks for responding?

RP

[Forged4ever]

Hahaha, I couldn’t agree more with ya Dale, though Madison(my Fiancée) might have a different opinion than us as she got to know him a bit as she Played with him and he dated her best friend for a minute while she was an Asst. at a club in Cali, lol.

 

Bear in mind that following Playing with Madison in a Charity event at our club, he had his caddie deliver a signed ball to her with his # on it post round.

 

Though we had met briefly, he had no idea WhoTF I was however I have a feeling that when I called out his name during a post round happy hour being held on our clubhouse patio and he turned towards me(with most around him also turning??) held the signed ball up so he could see it, then turned, planted it on a tee and proceed to airmail it over the trees separating our #1 & 5 fairways, he figured it out???

 

I didn’t think about it cuz I was so p!ssed, though I’m glad that I hit a decent 270-275yd drive cuz I’d have looked like a REAL *sshole if I’d have ducked ?or banana’d? it???

 

Yeppers, ole Freddie really Loved the pretty ladies, lolol

 

In fairness, they showed Freddie a lot of love back, lolol

 

Madison said that it was an “extremely immature *sshole act”

 

Women, lol

 

Though Fred has his green jacket, a boatload of bucks and is a HoFer(That’s a friggin joke?), he’s in my Top-3 Underachievers.

 

Yea, his back intervened however he has one of the three most incredible swings that I’ve ever seen, behind Sam & Norman, and he also had the total package, and yes, his putter was streaky, though so were a lot of guys’.

 

Stay Well?

RP

Edited February 26, 2021 by Forged4ever

[gvogel]

I think that it is important to remember that Sam was one of the pallbearers at Ben's funeral. Deep down, I think that Ben had a lot of respect for Sam.

[Loki]

If he had the desire to actually work and play golf, he would have won more than just the one major.

Classic underachiever.

[Forged4ever]

No doubt that Hogan had feelings for Sam that he never showed publicly, as Sam and especially Pete, were stunned when Valerie called him and asked him to do it, and though Pete was not in favor of that, from my observation, that made Sam feel very good as he had never carried the the feelings toward Hogan that Pete did and I’d heard Pete more than once “reminding” Sam of Hogan’s public slights though Sam for some reason had a soft spot for Hogan and though I’d only asked him once if he looked “up” to Hogan, because while I never said this to Pete due to his feelings about Hogan, Sam and the situation, and he laughingly said no, however to me he seemed like a younger sibling(he was actually a few months older than Hogan, as both were born in 1912) looking for approval from the way that he spoke of Hogan and their relationship, and please remember that the time period that I’m speaking of was when Sam was in his 60-70’s, so most of his encounters were in the rear view mirror, and may have been softened with age and the passing of the years.

 

Plus, Hogan did use Sam as his “go-between” not just with Lloyd Mangrum, though with other Players cuz one, Sam was very popular amongst his Playing Peers and secondly, he had a better way of communicating with them, where as Hogan was blunt, straight forward and no bullsh*t, and intimidated a lot of Players, especially the younger guys.

 

As I stated earlier, I believe that some of Pete’s hard feelings were when Sam referred to Hogan as a “Brother.” That really bothered him.

 

I could never speak to Hogan’s feelings towards Sam, and though Pete did, however you have to remember that a lot of what he repeated was gotten second and third hand, not from Hogan’s mouth, and Lloyd Mangrum did not particularly care for Hogan, so his views when he spoke with Sam and Pete were also through “frosty” lenses, so I don’t know how accurate Pete’s read on it was. I loved Pete like a Father and so I took what he said as gospel however Madison, if she so chooses to talk about it, had much different talks with Pete about his relationship with both Sam and Hogan. She could get away with asking questions, probing past the initial answer and challenging Pete in a way that I never could, and a way that a female can, where as a male, especially a younger male in a position like mine, in our relationship, I could not. Plus, Pete adored Madison and he probably spent 25-26 of our 32+ years together p!ssed at me about something😜lol.

 

All the Best George,

RP

Edited February 26, 2021 by Forged4ever

[gvogel]

Richard,

I googled Pete Snead and got his obituary. Very nice. Lovely.

Then I found this article about Homer in Sports Illustrated - very good read: THE HARDEST-HITTING SNEADI met Sam once at the Lower Cascades in the locker room, and he told me about all of the Wilson Staff drivers that he got each year, and how few of them that he liked. He sold the rest to pigeons.

Greg

[The Pearl]

Trevino is the runaway #1 choice. I suspect nobody else is a close second. At the time of his birth, coming into this world in his circumstances, the odds of him making it on the tour would have to be close to 1 in a Zillion. The odds of him winning 6 Majors might be mathematically impossible.

Zach Johnson, Furyk, Pavin etc. are good choices but compared to Trevino they largely started on 2nd base in terms of their golfing careers and neither of the three can touch Trevino's career.

Hogan might be close to Trevino in terms of circumstances out of the gate.

Calvin Peete would certainly rank high as well as Larry Nelson. Both started at least a decade behind their peers in learning the game.

 

[rangersgoalie]

Well, I’m in good company with Mr Ford!!

 

and love the line from Sam about mom and dad. Covers it all!!

 

hope you’re well!!

[iBanesto]

Is Angel Cabrera an overachiever or underachiever?

He should have won more regular tournaments but did he overachieve with 2 majors? Almost won a 3rd major as well.

[James the Hogan Fan]

I feel like John Daly ought to be on one list or the other, either as an underachiever who didn't do enough with his natural talents, or as an overachiever who used natural talent to overcome his lifestyle and win golf tournaments.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

That's quite the conundrum! I'd say both sides can be argued.

[Forged4ever]

Ya, Pete was a gem and most had no idea of his birth name, Harry Welford, as since his Father was named and went by “Harry” and he didn’t particularly care for “Welford,” “Pete” it was. Though I never met Homer, I spoke with him a few times when I answered the phone in Pete’s shop when he was out on the line. He was a character and ya, that was a great article and Pete has some hilarious stories from when they were younger and Pete said that as a Player, Homer was the real deal and he stated back then that Harry could put it past Sam which amazed me cuz Sam was arguably the Tour’s longest driver back in the day, and never out of the Top-3, and routinely, when he needed it, took it past 3 bills, with probably his most famous measured “long ball for not” being a 342 yarder that he hit to Paul Runyan’s(mentioned above) 240 yarder in the 1938 PGA Championship. Mr. Runyan went on to knock his third shot in for an eagle while Sam missed his eagle putt.

 

Regarding Sam’s drivers, and while he Played and loved Staff irons, he always thought that the Staff woods svcked, were total crap and to the best of my knowledge, he never ever bagged one cuz he had Played Macs prior to signing with Staff, and as you stated, he either sold them or gifted them, always making up some wild *ss story about some great drive, round or Tourney that he had Played with the one in his hand about to be sold or gifted??. He always had 10-12 Staff drivers in his trunk, which I found hilarious

 

Sam was hooked up with Toney Penna while he was at Mac and then afterward when he started his own company and his woods, especially driver, were his Grail.

 

Mr. Penna would just insert the Wilson Staff sole plate, and yea, Staff knew though didn’t care cuz as far as the public knew, and most of the other Tour Boys also, Sam swung Staff woods.

 

Of all of his clubs, he definitely babied and looked after his driver the most, lol. I’ve spoken before of when I flipped the cart at our place in an evening round with Pete and a good Bud, and Sam’s bag landed in the creek running the length of our #8 and he had two brand new Penna drivers in the bag that he had just taken delivery of a few days before, the one he hadn’t even hit yet as it still had the wrap over the head under the knit wood cover, and that one, along with his 5i, snapped outright and then the other driver was bent about 30* and when I tried to straighten it, it also snapped, lolol

 

I felt badly, though you’d have thought that I’d insulted his Mother(he worshipped his Mother). He didn’t speak to me for 5 months and never let me drive again, and his vision was goin and his reactions weren’t what they were so on my worst day I was a much better cart driver than him, though I just STFU and let him drive. While he might have sorta forgiven me for that, her never forgot it and brought it up constantly, telling Madison that THAT was his everlasting image/memory of me

 

Thanks for posting that article and have a great week Greg

 

My Best,

Richard

Edited February 26, 2021 by Forged4ever

[LeoLeo99]

Which US Open did North win that was in a horrible rain storm? I remember that well but don't remember the year. Watching North in that weather and he just didn't care about it. He was on a mission. Helped to show me what mental toughness meant. Maybe I misremember, but I remember North just marching along without a hat or umbrella in all that rain. Whenever it rains on me on the course, I have that mental image and carry on.

[jonsnow]

Gary Player had to travel a lot? I never heard him mention it. Next thing you're going to tell me is he exercised a lot.

[gvogel]

Do I remember a story that way back in the day, that Sam got a George Izett driver that was his gamer? Got it out of someone else's trunk?

[Ferguson]

antithesis.

[mocokid]

Totally agree, Ed Fergol won the US Open with a withered arm, similar to Cal Peete. Most of those Afro Americans guys who won on tour, they came up from the caddy ranks and won against the odds.