If you figured out Hogans' secret.....

[David C]

The main three benefits of extensor action in my opinion are that it makes the clubface closure more even, helps square it up, and stops the club from being too loose. I don't think Hogan did it, I think he got some 'structure' from 'connection' of the upper arms instead, but actively flexed his right elbow more in transition rather than try to extend it. Also think he did a lot of things from TGM that are only touched on: automatic flip release, right arm swinging, 2-M-3 taking PA4 through impact, body-controlled-hands, bent the plane line.

 

I think the extent of right arm external rotation in transition a player requires is dependent on your height, upper to lower arm ratio and wrist to floor. Release type too, probably whether pitch or punch works better for you is related to proportions as well.

[oscar@wrx]

Agree on all. Grip has lot to do with it too IMO.

 

Yes more even face closure because club is kept cocked, clubhead farther from vertical body center, hence face closes slower and evenly.

 

He has that, then wider clubhead arc for straighter shots, inside to out swing for power, then he just bends the plane line thru impact to iffset the inside out swing (which he needs for power)

[AlexCzervic]

 

 

[oscar@wrx]

 

 

I agree with that. But is that extensor action? That's why I asked you what you mean by extensor action.

 

That's more like external rotation of right shoulder, which I'd agree with is important. But I doubt Hogan even does external rotation of right shoulder actively or intentionally.

 

I think Hogan wants the right arm to fold properly, like how it folds when one actively does external rotation of right shoulder, but I think he wants the left arm to do the main job. Maybe why he emphasized upper right arm as close as possible to the side of the chest, and right elbow bending and pointing in when it folds up. Plus re the waggle, he said it's how the hands work, turning the shoulders just gets the arc wider and longer he said, or something to that sort, with the left hand doing the job and the right hand just going along for the ride. Then he said you must do it with the left arm. He emphasized left arm (to Nick Seitz IIRC).

 

I also think it's better to be thinking of the left arm in backswing as main thought, as it's difficult or no time for the mind to switch to right side. Adding is possible, bit switching the main engine? Don't think so. Switching to right side in backswing is also unnecessary because when the left shoulder stops moving or turning down on plane in backswing, the right forearm will always automatically move up, ala external rotation of right shoulder, if you keep right elbow bent in and upper right arm attached to armpits or side of chest.

 

Then you pause everything in transition, keeping left arm pushing, keeping upper left arm attached to chest, keeping the right arm structure (which I think is far from extensor action because no triceps active on this ine), all while your actively turning the hips. I think this is how Hogan does it, in his mind. His feels. And I think this is why his right elbow moves like that in the videos in transition up down to the slot.

 

Then he adds the right side during release (from the slot to impact and thru). All of it he used, left, right, shoulders, hands--the basketball pass.

 

I think ultimately, as a position, it's the slot that's the Holy Grail. The resultant move or static position that Hogan wants. But just a result of his earlier intents and feels. The in to out attack--for maximum possible power, speed. Shallow attack as well--more bang on the ball. Then he extends his left side so much--to straighten that in to out path, bends the plane line (as Dave. C. pointed out) on the fly. Result is a powerful, shallow attack, and straight path thru the ball. Best combo of power and accuracy.

 

If only we could do these

[AlexCzervic]

Words are wasted here. Buy a rope and learn or don't.

 

AC

[oscar@wrx]

Words are wasted here. Buy a rope and learn or don't.

 

AC

Yeah, wasted words indeed

[powerfade66]

He was once asked which muscle he'd get rid of if he could and said the biceps. I think this suggests he thought triceps were important but in my opinion more the left side and definitely not increasing the bend in the right arm. I've read many stories that suggest he was obsessed with being a small man and that he could do certain things that enabled him to swing like a bigger man. Though it's possible to increase the right arm bend and keep left straight I think it goes against what I see as an active stretch in the left side. I think his wrist c0ck and right arm bend came as a result of the sequencing and timing of his early width and then back shift later in the backswing. The back shift while clubhead still going back gives an extra crank to the shaft at the top resulting in the sharp angles mid downswing. Doing that actively with right arm would interrupt the sequence and actually put a break on the way he beautifully uses the weight of the clubhead.

[oscar@wrx]

Don't agree with extensor action, but I think Hogan actively pauses or keep still his right arm and right wrist bend in transition

[SunkTheBirdie]

Is there a go to video that gives excellent detail of exactly what is the hogan swing ? From P1 to P9 ?

 

This video has some good stuff

 

It mentions that Hogan loved his Deep hip turn. And so do I ! So I want to know how the rest of Hogan's Swing differs from "the usual" gWRX model swing :)

[David C]

Don't agree with extensor action, but I think Hogan actively pauses or keep still his right arm and right wrist bend in transition

 

I think he loads it, but not consciously. Like throwing a ball from the boundary or hurling a club in anger. I think it's part of an intent to throw it very, very far.

 

But if you asked someone doing that, is there a feeling of 'held' if they broke it down slow motion, I think they would say yes, momentarily. And if you asked someone to describe it I think they'd describe leading with the elbow. But I wouldn't want to deconstruct my throwing motion. I'd rip apart any latent athleticism. I'd just throw it harder. I think the danger is focusing on a moment rather than a cohesive whole throws grit in the gear-box.

 

Yet if you were to describe it to improve it you might discuss loading it... I think I would.

 

Probably better to watch or be shown a feel or described a feel than deconstruct it with words!

 

Words are powerful but awkward!

[oscar@wrx]

Don't agree with extensor action, but I think Hogan actively pauses or keep still his right arm and right wrist bend in transition

 

I think he loads it, but not consciously. Like throwing a ball from the boundary or hurling a club in anger. I think it's part of an intent to throw it very, very far.

 

But if you asked someone doing that, is there a feeling of 'held' if they broke it down slow motion, I think they would say yes, momentarily. And if you asked someone to describe it I think they'd describe leading with the elbow. But I wouldn't want to deconstruct my throwing motion. I'd rip apart any latent athleticism. I'd just throw it harder. I think the danger is focusing on a moment rather than a cohesive whole throws grit in the gear-box.

 

Yet if you were to describe it to improve it you might discuss loading it... I think I would.

 

Probably better to watch or be shown a feel or described a feel than deconstruct it with words!

 

Words are powerful but awkward!

Agree external rotation of right shoulder happens but not actively. I think he's really left arm dominant as he said until his full release. The moment anyone's left shoulder stops moving in backswing, the right forearm automatically lifts to load the club. Hogan's left shoulder goes down and stops very early. He doesn't have to load the right arm

[oscar@wrx]

He was once asked which muscle he'd get rid of if he could and said the biceps. I think this suggests he thought triceps were important but in my opinion more the left side and definitely not increasing the bend in the right arm. I've read many stories that suggest he was obsessed with being a small man and that he could do certain things that enabled him to swing like a bigger man. Though it's possible to increase the right arm bend and keep left straight I think it goes against what I see as an active stretch in the left side. I think his wrist c0ck and right arm bend came as a result of the sequencing and timing of his early width and then back shift later in the backswing. The back shift while clubhead still going back gives an extra crank to the shaft at the top resulting in the sharp angles mid downswing. Doing that actively with right arm would interrupt the sequence and actually put a break on the way he beautifully uses the weight of the clubhead.

As I study Hogan further, the more I believe his transition and all that's happening in his swing is indeed done activeky by a turn of his hips. Left shoulder still, righ leg still, right arm still, when you turn the hips you go to the slot.

 

The loading of the club is just the left hand and club pronating more because it wasn't pronated enough during backswing. Why not pronated enough? He has a very very fast backswing

[WinKiePie]

Would you share it with your golf buddies?

 

I already tried. They don't care. Oh well, haven't paid for beer since lol

[zakmichael]

Pretty sure someone would go around and tell everybody on a Hogan forum and make Youtube videos, just like what happens in threads like this one..

[tgreenwood11]

Not going to reveal where it was told to me, but Hogan practiced very hard on pulling the club back on his backswing with his right side and pulling down very hard and fast with his left side. Why? Simple physics. It’s easier to pull the club in the direction you want it to go then to push it.

[MountainGoat]

I figured it out, and I’m not telling anyone.

[moehogan]

“When I describe a golf shot and gesture with one of my hands, it's always the right hand I gesture with. That's because golf is a right-handed game [for right-handers], not a left-handed game as some people believe. Hogan was emphatic about that. The right hand controls the position of the clubface, generates the speed, applies the touch, everything. All the left hand does is hold on to the club, and hopefully not break down on the downswing.”

Ken Venturi

[alansmithdc]

In Five Lessons Chapter Grip he says take the right thumb and forefinger off the club in order to realize there is 1 corporate hand. My problem is which hand is the corporate hand, left or right?

[alansmithdc]

In Five Lessons Chapter Grip he says take the right thumb and forefinger off the club in order to realize there is 1 corporate hand. My problem is which hand is the corporate hand, left or right?

[WinKiePie]

So true.