Ruling Help, 3 day Stableford

[Mr. Bean]

I guess we got that straight a while ago. I hope...

[cardoustie]

It adds up

2bG ... just like you I have been Captain and tourney chair and Hdcp Chair and sat on a MC for 10+ years ... and have played all levels of competitive golf from univ to provincial and national Am’s

This guy was intentionally cheating all day but was charged two strokes only per hole where he was confronted on the greens

our current pro and MC totally dropped the ball here

 

[Mr. Bean]

'This guy was intentionally cheating all day but was charged two strokes only per hole where he was confronted on the greens'

If that is the final outcome your club has some serious problems ruleswise...

[deadsolid...shank]

I see where Mr Bean is coming from here. Since he “fixed” the incorrect marking by putting it in the correct place, I don’t see how they can penalize him two strokes per hole. The error was corrected and the ball wasn’t played from the wrong spot. Isn’t it similar to someone teeing up ahead of the markers but someone catches him prior to putting the ball in play so he can it correctly?

My rules knowledge is admittedly much less than everyone else here, but this seems a no brainer to me. If the consensus is that he was purposely cheating, he gets DQ’ed. Quickly.

[ArtMBgolf]

If the "intentional cheater" cheats to make the team, then how will your pro feel if he cheats in the club matches and gets his 2 man team DQ'd.

[rogolf]

Would the club pro and captain be complicit if they didn't address the previously known issue?

[2bGood]

I am just wondering why you are so sure, I am genuinely curious? Did his marker sign his scorecard? Did you ask your committee for details of their ruling?

 

 

 

 

[nsxguy]

Yes, the account of the incident is suspect.

"This guy was intentionally cheating all day" yet was only caught twice. Frankly, if the 2 times he was caught were truly cheating and not a mistake, as witnessed and re-told to the Committee, the Committee blew it. DQ.

But intentionally cheating all day with no one seeing it,,,,,,,,,, I wouldn't call that evidence.

At my old club we've had 2 or 3 guys accused of cheating over the years but never been officially reported to the Committee. YOu know how the "whispers" work. So nobody's ever been kicked out for it.

[cardoustie]

So, for example, you’ve never seen a player with a better lie than you thought they had? You know it was fluffed but didn’t see it happen

Same with inch worming ... you know the guy is doing it but don’t see him do it every time

I can only relate the story related to me by one of his playing partners

 

[nsxguy]

I've seen plenty of unusual results from shots but seriously, if I didn't see somebody improving their lie, what can I do ? I myself have ended up with some incredibly good luck from a poor shot and some incredibly bad luck from an apparently really good shot.

Had you shown me Dustin's shot to that driveable par 4 yesterday and told me the ball landed right there on the fly I'd have said "impossible". But I saw it on camera. That's where it hit and that's where it stayed and apparently it didn't even plug. Almost unbelievable.

But with your situation, 2 guys saw it happen twice. That's it. I guess one could ASSUME he was "cheating all day" but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Anyway, as I said before, based on the story you're telling us, had I been on the Committee I'd have voted for a DQ.

[2bGood]

But I guess this is my point, you have 3rd hand information and even that information is about what they think he is doing and not what they know he is doing.

Put yourself in the shoes of the committee:

Player A and B: " We saw player C mark his ball in the wrong place twice."

Committee: "Did he putt from the wrong place ?"

Player A and B: "No he moved it when we alerted him about it"

Committee: "Anything else?"

Player A and B: " We know he was cheating on other holes"

Committee: "What did you see?"

Player A and B: "We did not see anything as he was too far away when he cheated."