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SIM driver guys - talk about it


getitdaily

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I think the perceived right bias comes from a lot of guys playing the Max lofted down, which opens the face several degrees. Personally, I love having a forgiving driver with an open face. My initial few rounds have been great. Just playing a nice smooth cut that keeps me out of trouble most of the time but no issues turning it over when I need it.

Titleist TSR3 (10) - Project X HZRDUS 4G 6.0
Titleist 917 F2 16.5 at C1 (15.75) - Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 70 5.5
Titleist TSR2 21 at C3 (22) - Project X HZRDUS Red CB  70 6.0
Titleist T150 5i-GW - Nippon 950 GH R - I up
Ping Glide 2.0  52 SS - AWT 2.0 S - Back Dot
Ping Glide 3.0  58 ES - ZZ-115 - Black Dot

Callaway MD5 64 S Grind - TT-115 
Ping Fetch 2023 - 34"

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I'm willing to bet that the right bias comes from the driver being really forgiving.

Here's my hypothesis...

The SIM MAX is very forgiving. This allows you to get more confident in swinging harder. Swinging harder leads to bad transitions, over the top moves, steep attack angle, open face...right miss.

Now, the driver likely has a fade biased CoG. Every TM driver the last 4 years has. However, the hard right misses aren't because the CoG is 2mm toe side...

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I know this is a SIM forum but I am looking at the a SIM or a M5 or M5 Tour. I don't know how credible it is but I heard The M5 provides about everything the M5 Tour does but it's a little more forgiving. I am a decent player and am just looking to pick up distance and continue with my accuracy. Not sure my swing speed but I would say my average drive is 270-275 with the Titleist 913 D3 and obviously it's lost a bit of its pop.

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I’ve played the Max and been fit for a standard and have not noticed a right bias compared to the G400 Max I played previously. I miss right when I transition too fast and stay behind the ball too much, but when putting a good swing on, these go straight with a little movement either way based on strike location. Have a standard Sim on the way and am excited to get out on the course with it. The lower trajectory is huge for me.

Ping G425 Max 9*, Aldila Rogue White 70s

Titleist TS3 4 wood, Diamana Kal’li 70s

New Level 902 PD, PX 6.5

Mizuno S18 50*, PX 6.5

Cleveland CBX2 54*, DG s400 TI

Callaway MD4 58*, DG s400 

Odyssey White Hot OG 7CH

 

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I played the M5 can say the SIM is better overall for me. Sound/feel are identical to me, but I feel the SIM is just slightly more consistent. Having said that the M5 is still a phenomenal driver.

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Callaway Paradym TD                 9°   Mitsubishi Kai'li White 60

Callaway Paradym TD 3+         13.5°  Mitsubishi Kai'li White 70

Callaway Apex UW                   19°   Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75

Callaway Apex 21                      4-PW  True Temper XP 105

Callaway Jaws Raw                   54°S ,60°Z True Temper DG Spinner 

Odyssey Tri-Hot 5K Double Wide

Callaway Chrome Soft

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I will concede that my M5 took quite a while to get the settings "dialed in" for my swing and it may not be as much a universal fit for everyone. I do believe the TXG guys noted the SIM line was easier to fit people to than the M5/M6 line. My personal experience proved that my properly set-up M5 was every bit as good as the SIM.

 

People also forget that just last year it won top driver in the My Golf Spy list for High Swing Speeds - beating the likes of the 410LST, F9, and Epic line - all very fast in ball speed. So the narrative that M5 is "slow" is also a bit misleading. Think where people are finding it was slow or "slower" for them than the SIM line just means it wasn't a great fit and not so much that the M5 is a slow driver from a ballspeed standpoint.

 

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I tend to be more consistent with the SIM than the Max. No clue as to why, it has the same shaft and same settings.

I didn't swing it any different, the fitter didn't tell me what driver I was hitting at what point. He just gave me a new combination every few shots for me to try. (Tried Ventus, HZDRUS Geen in 60 and 70 grams with both the SIM and the Max)

For me the Sim spinned about 300-400 less, launch and thus flight lower. Only missed right, while the Max was left and right.

Some old clubs in one of the many bags. Just slapping some balls around trying to have fun.

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Well, considering sub 2000 spin is just looking for knuckle balls that fall wildly out of the sky, yeah, all is good. You know, because carry numbers are all that matters.

Considering that launch monitors have really only been mainstream for about 10 years, yeah...old school thinking. Who doesn't remember talking about sub 2000 spin in 1996?

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no, sub 2000 spin can be ideal for some players, when matched with the right launch angle and speed. The ball flight (carry and roll) is clearly displayed and all calculated, both numbers are big for the ballspeed. 1600 will NOT fall out of the sky when launched at 165mph+ at 14+ degrees, sorry, it’s just physics, it doesn’t. In fact it would be about 112 feet high at the peak.

heres’s the flight scope optimizer tool, go ahead and try to figure out a reason more spin in his case would be better, cause I don’t see it:https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

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Since he followed up with other swings in the 2200-2500 range, the one at 1650 is ok. But at his ballspeed, living in the 1650 range would not be good. He would be much more erratic at 1650 than at 2200. If he's constantly around 1650 then he would need to loft up a bit to add spin...or live in the rough, trees, and hazards.

So, the 1 good reason to not live at 1650...? Control

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Um...ok.  

Respectfully, I think you might be trying to say this:

In your experience, you have found low spin drivers hard to control, and you hit them left and right.  They require you to hit the center.  There IS some merit to that statement, because in order to make a club spin less, you move weight toward the lower front of the face.  That does tend to make a club far more punishing on miss-hits, and you will find it imparts more movement and more punishment when you miss-hit it (left,right, lower ball speeds).  And there are clubs out that let you simply adjust “spin” by moving weight back and forward, SIM is not one.

So, that’s not the situation here.  This is a club that doesn’t really allow much change in weight front to back on the head (granted, less a bit of fiddling with the left to right slider being behind the ball).  So it “is what it is” in terms of MOI forgiveness and front/rear weight.  So you will not really change the forgiveness of the head by “adding” spin, since there’s no weight you can slide back to simply add spin, you can only add spin by adding loft. He’s already launching at 14 degrees, so adding loft back will add not just spin, but launch angle as well.  And in his case, you probably don’t want to add those things because he would drop distance, for no real forgiveness gain.

Again, the 1600 is fine/good. If he could get it every time, I’m sure the results would make him very happy. Launching higher with more spin, Who knows, that might make him happier too, it would be a shorter walk from the tee box.

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I think your followup post started to touch on this, but I think the whole thing that @getitdaily was arguing was related to the overall dynamic range you can expect when it comes to spin and mishits. If you were to "optimize" a setup to achieve 1,600 spin on center strikes then that would be dangerous. Axis tilt is what creates flight curvature and the less spin you have, the less axis tilt is necessary to send the ball left/right. A driver spinning 1,600 out of the center will easily drop 500+ rpm in a hurry if the strike strays towards the toe, and that is violent duck hook territory. This is why low spin is considered unstable. Not just because the spin is low, but because a "low spin environment" in terms of driver setup becomes more volatile on mishits.
The guy posting his screenshots however seemed to be spinning it around 2,200 on center strikes, which is great. The 1,600 spin with 13* launch was likely a high strike, so it wouldn't dip much lower than that and thus nothing really needs to be done to get that number up.

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
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J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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Six over and 4 over......making nothing on the greens......But SIM has giving me confidence and consistency without massive distance gains.....less fluctuations of distance; more predictable distance......tee height has some determination on flight but I'm seeing easier launch......need more time with this club.....for research 

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Finally got my Sim dialed in and decided to really give it a go at the range. I’ve had so much inconstancy off the tee that I have subconsciously slowed my swing down. I swing my 6 iron around 90 mph and my SS with driver probably hovers a hair over 100 lately. That’s a problem. Decided to try to give a few a ride today and I feel like I hit the ball so much better. Easing up, I tend to miss to the right because I leave the face open. Hit much more of a draw going after it. Playing tomorrow and have already earmarked a couple holes to let loose on. Just an awesome driver.

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Ping G425 Max 9*, Aldila Rogue White 70s

Titleist TS3 4 wood, Diamana Kal’li 70s

New Level 902 PD, PX 6.5

Mizuno S18 50*, PX 6.5

Cleveland CBX2 54*, DG s400 TI

Callaway MD4 58*, DG s400 

Odyssey White Hot OG 7CH

 

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Playing Sim 8 in upright, weight neutral, stock diamana s+ 60x. Hit it straight and can shape both ways. Coming from a g410+ tour 65x I gained 15 yards from lowering the spin with the sim, also plays much better into the wind. Tried a ventus black 6x and when I go after it the feel is incredible and performs well. My fairway finding swing just wants to go right as I feel like the ventus black 6x plays stiffer than other xstiff I've had success with. Might try to sell the 6x and find a 6s.

Driver: Sim OG 8* (-2g), Diamana ZF 40x

3wood: Sim Ti Rocket 14*, SMT 3390 Tour V 50x

5wood: Sim Ti @18*, SMT 3390 Tour V 50x

4i-GW: Ke4 Max (-8g), SMT Bassara 65x +1"

SW: CBX2 52*, Rotex Precision 90g wedge flex

LW: Tour Grind MG 60*

P: 2013 Scotty Cameron Newport Black, Pistolero

Grips: Lamkin Crossline 58r

Ball: TP5X 2019

 

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I have the SIM 9.0 and if it wasn't for the prototype shaft having a TM tip I would not have bought it.

It has been the most consistent driver I've had maybe ever. I can fade it or draw it with ease. Its been surprisingly forgiving on less than perfe t contact as well. My driving average is up almost 7 yards mainly because they are straight or actually where im aiming.

I have the weight closer to the heel and the adapter set at 9.0 standard.

How much of this combo is the head or the shaft i don't know but I could care less.

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20200705-170801.jpg

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