Smother Hook with Driver

[DrOldSchool]

Since returning from the Covid-19 layoff my game is coming around with one glaring exception - the driver - and it's causing my score/handicap to balloon, and it's getting into my head during the round.

 

I usually hit a draw, especially with the longer clubs. Even with that I am not the longest hitter, and never have been, with a good drive being 260-270 or so with the driver. But over the last couple months, only with the driver I have developed an uncontrollable hook that comes off like I am smothering the ball, with the ball flight of a top spin lob in tennis, starting low left of target and dying quickly in the rough or whatever well left of the fairway.

 

I first thought it might be ball position with the ball getting too far ahead, and I have tried to pay more attention to keeping the driver off the inside heel of my left foot, but that is not helping. I do not think I am coming from too far inside, because if I were I would think it would be a wider problem than just the driver. I also can usually tell if I sway in my swing, so I do not think it's that. I'm wondering if casting early can do this. Or if my swing is too long and I am becoming disconnected and ahead of myself when rotating my hips through the swing to the point my hands have to shut before impact.

 

I've seen a myriad of advice on the web about this. Wondering if anyone has had a similar experience and what advice worked best for them?

[MonteScheinblum]

Hard to say without seeing it, but I see this all the time on the lesson tee from people trying to hit up too much.

[naj959]

For me, an overly strong grip and dropping the club way too far behind me due to a poor pivot were the culprit. Have made my grip more neutral and am working on my pivot so that I don't get stuck. Best bet is to post a video for Monte or other instructors.

[RobertBaron]

Yea same with me. Getting stuck then trying to get out of it with an early extension flip caused massive hooks for me.

[DrOldSchool]

I'll see what I can do about a video. I think I am coming in too steep and rolling my wrists early. I'll try to rig something up while I play tomorrow.

[Baitkiller]

Grip tension makes me hit knuckle balls. Relax, loosen up is the fix for me.

[rich_s2]

swinging hard left is my anti hook move under pressure

[SNIPERBBB]

Been watching my dad struggle with this. He's got a Jim Furyk'ish swing and he's casting from the bottom/rolling over top of the ball hard.

[hagimihale]

Getting stuck / flip / strong grip / rolling over. These are the first things I think of in this situation (and I've fought a duck hook before, its not fun).

I have one more to add to the list: not opening the hips during the downswing.

I think the "flip" or "rolling over" can actually be symptoms, and the root cause was more related to your hips remaining closed. If you have a proper release, and your default ball flight is a draw, and DON'T open your hips prior to impact, that can cause the outcome you have now.

But I definitely think you should get video to Monte for an assessment...

[TheCityGame]

I have one more to add to the list: not opening the hips during the downswing.

This is completely it for me. I stall my hips, my top comes through and everything just slams into the ball and flips and closes the face.

There might be many reasons for why I've stalled my hips, but generally I get the smother hook when when I'm trying to "steer it" or I "don't commit". These are mental cues for me and might not connect with your mentality. But, just for one thing to try. . .get on the range and focus on rotating hard and see if you still get smother hooks.

The flip side (again, for me) is rotating too hard and too fast and blocking it right. But if you're really trying to correct the smother hook, you might need to over-correct to get it.

[kevina001]

I have this problem. I've found that two things are the primary cause.

1) Not keeping my head behind the ball in the downswing. My head has a tendency to move toward the target on the downswing, and the face is pointing left at impact.

2) Arms take over on the downswing. I focus on making sure my body is aggressively turning left in concert with my arm swing to avoid this issue.

[North Texas]

Man, you me to thinking. Almost every lesson I've taken in the past 5 years or so, the instructor has told me to hit up on the ball with my driver. And I've never hit so many damn smother hooks in my life.

[MonteScheinblum]

That’s because the almost universal way to hit up more is to over tilt The shoulders and spine. That shifts the swing direction To the right, which makes you more susceptible to hooks.

Zeroing out one number almost always ends in disaster.

[North Texas]

Well, not only do they tell me to hit up more, they also tell me to swing more to the right. Jeez, no wonder that sometimes I hit my driver like a 30 handicapper instead of the high single digit that I am.

[socccer4life3]

when i had this issue it was a grip issue. i was turning my right hand way under

[nsxguy]

Pretty much everything in this thread rings a bell with me, especially Monte's "hitting up" (too much - I believe he's previously called it "chasing" at one time). LOL

Lots of issues and lots of fixes here in this thread !!!

When I get into this "mode", which thankfully is seldom nowadays, I tell myself "Head back, weight forward" (that's lower body weight).

"Stalled hips". The above fixes the "stalled hips" (another possible way to say not getting your lower body forward). With a proper weight shift it's really hard not to keep the hips moving.

"Chasing the upward strike" as Monte explains, often results too much spine tilt, which in turn can cause you to keep your weight back. Weight back, upper body outraces the lower and club gets out in front and is closing as it gets to the ball.

"Sway" (OP). Agree with OP. Don't think this is the cause. Swaying forward almost has to includes the head. Very bad idea. Usually results (for me at least) in a clubhead trailing too much and starting it out to the right. Single best piece of driving advice I've ever gotten - Keep your head back behind the ball.

"Strong grip" (Getting "stuck", flipping, etc). Certainly possible. Too wristy or too strong a grip is closing down the clubface. Low pull hook. Weaken the grip a tad and swing the same. Little-by-little. Small changes.

Just some observations from someone who's "been there and done that" LOL

[KMeloney]

If you're coming in too steep, then you're going to add spin to the ball, and it'll likely go higher, not lower. I'd rule this out. Closing down the clubface early could be a part of it, though.

It's going to be one (or a combo) of the things mentioned already. You just don't realize that you're doing it/them.

[DrOldSchool]

I got paired up with a random today, so I couldn't try to video my swing. Got away with the couple bad smothers and put up my best round of the year, so the game is there if I can round out this issue.

 

What felt different between good strikes (including those that did not draw and went straight down the right side where I wanted it to draw from - which was a new problem, but not a major one) and the couple of the smother hooks I hit were in the lower body. I think as was suggested above I am not being consistently aggressive enough with the lower body and my arms take over (especially at the start of the downswing), shutting the face. I think that gives me the feeling of being steep since it leads me to a closed face at impact.

 

I'll see about a video next time I get out. Thanks to everyone for the help so far.

[naj959]

Getting good rotation is so important in fighting the smother hook. For me this problem really shows up when I try to hit punchs shot under trees. The ball overdraws because I don't fully commit to rotating on such a short shot. The arms and hands become way too active. I think a good way to drill the correct movement on the range is buy hitting punch or half shots. Do it until you can hit a straight ball or even cut it a little bit. If I can hit the half shot with no curve Then I know I'm swinging well and rotating properly. The half swing has implications throughout the bag and may be a useful drill for the OP. As has been stated around here before, the harder you rotate the straighter the ball goes; given that your in the proper delivery position.

[ferrispgm]

If you are hitting smother hooks due to over tilting the trail shoulder, try working on maintaining left tilt (assuming you are right handed) longer.

[North Texas]

What do you mean by over tilting the trail shoulder? And what do you mean by working on maintaining left tilt?

[naj959]

I could be wrong but I believe he's referring to the excessive dropping of the right shoulder in an effort to swing in to out on the downswing. It often leads to getting suck. Lead shoulder should stay down a bit in the transition while you shallow the club. It may feel like coming over the top with the trail shoulder to those who are not used to it but if the club is in the correct position, it will still attack the ball from the inside and stop the arms from getting trapped behind.

[ferrispgm]

Pretty much this lol. Trying to hit up on the ball or in to out can easily lead to rear shoulder dropping. I've been down the road of trying to hit up on the driver...it's no bueno. If you are unfamiliar with tilts it goes something like this: You start in address with forward bend..as you swing back that forward bend gets replaced with left tilt and spine extension. From the top of your backswing you should feel some compression or crunch from your left obliques. Maintaining that feeling as the club starts down is key. There are several ways to do it. Personally I try to maintain the feeling and let the left shoulder work down and around left..basically the alex noren pre swing rehearsal. There are others as well but it depends on the person...you may feel it totally differently. Either way, at first your shoulders will feel extremely over the top or extremely level to start. Start with a 9 iron and hitting the ball 50-70% normal distance. The ball should curve a lot less and probably fly a little lower. It's key however to not move your arms out too though...that would be over the top...this is just a tilt/shoulder move. Watch Alex Noren.

[DrOldSchool]

 

Apologies for the poor angles but it was all I could do at the course I was playing today. I would call both swings somewhere between solid and a smother hook with the result being a draw of decent distance but a little more turned over than I intended ending just in the left rough.

[naj959]

Left hand grip looks really strong to me and the forward press may further deloft the club. I'd bet you can see 4 knuckles looking down. I used to be in the same position. Grip change is a hard fix because it feels so uncomfortable. Tiny bit of a move off the ball and then you re-center. Arms look like they wipe across your body post impact. There's no extension of the left arm post impact. I'd get a grip trainer and work on being a little more centered throughout the swing. I can't really tell path since there's no dtl, but sliding forward can shift it right. So when you time it right you can play a draw but when you're off its going to be low left because your setup is biased towards that shot. I've had the same issues in the past. Just my 2 cents which aint worth squat but I hope it helps.

[nsxguy]

That's funny because I can't see the left hand. But the right one looks to be a touch too strong.

Baby steps though. First thing I'd try is weakening the grip just a touch and swing exactly the same.

[MonteScheinblum]

Could be more that a down temping might tell, like shoulders open at address.....

Pelvis sway and poor rotation

Arm swing too long with excess right elbow bend.

[DrOldSchool]

The long swing and excess elbow bend is a 35 year problem, the result of a poor teacher growing up. I’ve tried to correct it but it really really messes things up timing wise and I wind up saying to myself **** it just swing your swing. Because even though I know it’s not pretty, I shot +3 today - 3 birdies and 6 bogies and all bogies were a result of a poor tee shot. It probably holds me back from ever getting below where I was last year as a 3 cap though.

 

Sway is noticeable, however, and it could be a result of me not only trying to go after it but also steer the shot. I’m curious how this would compare to my hybrid swing - I trust them more than anything in my bag (carry 3 4 and 5h). I’ll also weaken the left hand a bit on the driver and see how that goes next time.

 

thanks for all the help.

[mgoblue83]

Your swing is REALLY flat and you are going to have a hard time keeping the face square regardless of grip. The flat swing combined with all of the other things people have mentioned makes timing it up a nightmare. Fortunately I think most of those things can be helped by making a steeper swing as it will encourage you to rotate instead of sliding and help you keep the face square longer through the hitting zone.

I'd recommend practicing swings where you take the club up steeper and in front of you (instead of shoulder height and behind you) followed by finishing with your hands high over your head (instead of at waist level like you are currently). Think high to high instead of low to low.

[chipa]

I struggle with smother hooks like you at times. After mentally comparing my good swings with the feeling of the smother hooks it I sense the right hand is overpowering the left hand and it is breaking down. On the contrary when I am swinging well I have a feeling that I can swing as hard as I want and my left hand stays firm. I think this may be your problem because you like me have a tendency to pick the club up early on the takeaway thus not allowing the left hand to get in a good position.

My recommendation is to grip the club in the left hand and then let it hang down until you feel the triceps activated. There will be a slight ulnar deviation in the left wrist(thumb), which is what you want. When you hold the thumb like this and keep the hands as low as possible during the takeaway past your right foot(like all big hitters) the left arm will load better from the outside making it difficult for the right hand to break it down as the right arm bends and the wrist cocks and also on the downswing. It may feel odd at first but when you get it if you have good right hand action you will bomb it like never before. When I get this method correct I can swing in the 120's. However, doing too much ulnar deviation of the left wrist will not allow the arms to load properly nor the hands to connect, that's why I recommend doing it just until you feel the triceps activate. Also, the takeaway will become steeper because of the way the left arm loads on the outside.