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Pins on edges----all the time


MtlJeff

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Just curious what people think of this. My course this season has made a concerted effort to try "different" pin positions, which actually had been some of the feedback they'd gotten from members over the years. So in a sense that is a good thing that they listened

However, the "different" pin positions all seem to be "sucker" pins that are 5-6 feet off edges. This has resulted in pretty much every round feeling like you are playing pins from a PGA tour Sunday. I would estimate that in our average round, maybe 12 out of the 18 pins are under ~10 feet away from a corner edge, and we have big greens.

This has led to some challenges scoring as you might expect, as it's tougher to make birdies under these conditions. This year in our first club event the scores were noticeably higher.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I've asked some members and many don't seem to mind.....Everyone plays the same course and etc. I'm not a huge fan of it to be honest but i seem to be in the minority

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Our course tends to have a 6-6-6 pin position set up. 6 are easy to get at flags, 6 moderate needing good shots, and 6 tucked away that you just can't attack without being penalised for a slightly errant shot. I personally think it's a good way of setting up the pin positions.

Club championship set up is slightly different. Tees pegged all the way back with 12 difficult and 6 moderate pin positions. The increased difficulty was reflected last year when the competition standard scratch was 2 over par.

It also depends on what side of the bed our greenkeeper wakes up on! Some of the difficult positions can be really tough!

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I'm not a fan of edge pins, especially on places like my home course which have heavily sloped greens. Really slows down play.

My biggest issue is when the pin placement leaves no good options. You either have a fast downhill putt that you have to be defensive with just to keep it on the green, or you short-side yourself. I don't mind them in tournaments/big events, but too many of those in your every day course set-up is a bit much.

 

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Variety is the spice of life, but if they are always jamming pins on the edges that can get tiring.

The first question I'd ask is who is responsible for determining the pin locations? If the guy on the greens crew isn't a golfer he may not understand what he's doing. In theory it should be as simple as some general guidelines about how many pins to put middle-ish and how many to put near the edge.

For the edge pins, and we get that problem a few times at our club where the greens are small, a really simple solution would be to put a piece of string with the hole cutter. Never put a hole closer than a length of string from the edge.

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I agree and actually like all of the new pins, it's just hard when they are all in the same round LOL

If they were using like 5-6 pins like that with the rest of them being moderate, it would probably be a lot more interesting.

Right now every time you step onto a tee box the pin looks like it's in the bunker haha

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I'm all for a tough pin here and there, but you gotta space it out or you go through a round feeling quite defeated. I played a course for the first time last summer, and it just so happened to be a "greenskeeper's revenge" day, it was brutal. Nothing worse than hitting a great tee shot and approach only to find a brutal pin and a challenging 2 putt. Maybe save it for some of the easier holes, to give them some teeth, but then again that can screw up strokes for handicaps in matches.

 

I'll add that I spent a college summer cutting pins at a country club. Every once in a while I liked to put down what I thought was a challenging yet fair spot on a green or two. Generally within an hour I was called out to fix it, had I done it on more than 1 hole every few weeks or months I'm sure I would have lost those responsibilities. I'm surprised your club has stuck to it this long.

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Our course is pretty much run by a handful of guys , not to say they don't listen, but there's an "inner circle" so to speak. These guys seem to enjoy the tougher conditions, i've spoken to a few of them, so i don't see any direction to change them much coming. The direction i heard was that the pin position dudes were told to put the pins in "different spots" but they all seem to be on edges. Maybe they have been told that , maybe to protect the greens due to our heat wave we are having now, and things will go back to being more normal later

I know they have received some complaints, especially during last weekend when we did our match play qualifying (one hole in particular received several)

But i don't think anything significant enough to give different directions to the pin guys

 

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Titleist Jet Black 54/60 with PX LZ 6.0

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I don't see the issue. Just aim 10 feet to the safe side of the pin. Attack when the opportunity allows.

 

Our course always has tucked pins but our green make Pebble look massive so a centered approach rarely leaves more than a 15-20 ft putt. I miss a crap ton of greens though. These pins will make you a much better player in the end and should help your handicap travel well.

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Yeah, i mean i'm not upset or anything it's just weird.

Though sometimes it can be a bit frustrating when you hit the center of the green and have a 35-40ft putt or something haha.

If you want to make birdies, you definitely will have to be more aggressive and precise with irons.

I do imagine this would make you a better player, if done long term

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Srixon ZX 15 w/PX Hzrdus Red 70

Tour Edge C723 21* w/PX hzrdus black 80

Titleist T150 4-AW w/PX LZ 6.0

Titleist Jet Black 54/60 with PX LZ 6.0

Deschamps Crisp Antique 

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The course closest to my house does this a lot with two specific holes. I would guess it's to give them some teeth?

One is a short (330 y) down hill par 4. It's pretty wide and there is only one bunker, which is in the fairway and it takes about 220 to take it out of play. No greenside bunkers at all on this hole. But it's a three tiered narrow green with the tiers increasing in elevation from front to back. I've played there countless times, and the pin is ALWAYS on that tiny third tier in the back. It's tough because it's less than 10 feet from the edge and less than 10 feet from the slope down to a lower tier. I'm not good enough to land it and stop it on the top tier, so I have trouble this hole. I played Monday and my drive made it all the way to the bottom of the hill but my pitch didn't make it up to the top. Bogey.

 

The other is the final hole, which is a par 3. You have to clear a pond, and then there is a bunker right in front of the narrowest part of a wide skinny green. It's probably 20 feet from the front edge to the back, and the bunker is way wider than it looks from the tee box. The pin is always right behind the bunker, but when I showed up Monday it was off to the left in the fattest part of the green away form the bunker. I've never seen the pin anywhere but right behind the bunker before.

 

Not a super long course, but some of the pins are definitely there to punish aggresive mistakes. Neither of them bother me, I just wish I could solve the par 4.

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I think the proper set up is an equal combination of front middle back and left center right resulting in six relatively easy to get at pins, 6 moderate and 6 difficult. I played at a course where the GM would direct maintenance to move the pins in coordination with the tees. Move the tees up you move the pins back and vice versa. It meant that every par three always played about its same distance regardless of either tee or pin location.

The course I belong to, I don't think there is a flat spot to be found on any of them. Even the flattest of greens (maybe 1 or 2) have break. I don't think the guy who cuts the holes knows anything about golf and holes will be cut on steep slopes or at the crest of a ridge. Unfortunately, the superintendent nor the GM nor anyone from the pro shop sets up the course directing where the holes should be cut. One of the true disadvantages of belonging to a public course.

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I like variety.

I also think that the pin sheet should reflect predicted weather, so if it's predicted to blow 20mph, ya might not want to put pins on edges all over the course ( like mine did the other day)

I always get a kick out of marshall's asking people to speed up on weekends at the local muni, when the grounds crew tucked all the pins and sped up the greens. ( No big tourney)

 

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I used to do the pins and rake/maintain bunkers at my home course. Fun job!

 

Anyways the greenskeeper I learned from followed the 6-6-6 method on mens/ladies/competition days. 6 easy ones in catch points, hollows that collect balls, wide landing areas etc. 6 medium ones that might be tucked behind something visually intimidating or protected by a tree or bunker etc. The last 6 could be false fronts, 10 feet off the edge, tricky access holes etc.

If I recall we changed the pins 3-4 times a week? Many years since I did that job haha.

One other day of the week would be 9 easy and 9 medium. Usually the Sat/Sun round where the tees would be moved up a tad and the pins would be easy to kind of subtly get golfers moving quicker without being pounded by tournament conditions.

 

 

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Our course has gone to a seven-zone system; on each day, the locations are posted as Zone 1, Zone 2, etc. Each of the zones is printed on the back of the scorecard, with a reasonably detailed view of the green, that lets you figure out which side of a ridge or which tier of a multi-tiered green the hole is located. Since we're closed Monday, and they rotate in sequence (1 through 7), if you normally play the same days each week, you see different hole locations.

Each of the seven zones has a 6-6-6 combination of hard / moderate / easy, front / middle / back, and left / right / center. Somebody spent some really quality time creating it! It does seem like on average, the 6 & 7 zones skew slightly more difficult, but I've never really tested that assumption.

What I have noticed this year is that within each zone, I'm seeing more hole locations that demand attention on both lag putts and short putts; there are some subtle slopes and ridges that you have to account for. In many cases, the "difficult" hole locations are definitely within 4-6 paces of one (or more) edges of a green, or potentially just over ridges.

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